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Amnesty International to halt India operations

107 points by 0xmohit 6y ago

ashleshbiradar 6y ago
this needs to be looked along with the new FCRA laws passed by the government, which completely cripple civil societies in India. https://scroll.in/article/973909/behind-the-new-rules-for-ngos-to-get-foreign-funds-a-clear-political-message-fall-in-line https://scroll.in/article/973909/behind-the-new-rules-for-ng...
- sbmthakur 6y ago
  From the article: > The third, was to broaden the definition of the “government servant” category to include “public servants” among the people who cannot receive foreign funds. So, till now public servants were able to receive foreign funding?
nilsocket 6y ago
Amnesty is not an NGO, it is an organization with links to terrosits. https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnesty-international-its-links-to-radical-islam-and-british-government/ https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnes... Edit: Add other sources: https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...
- adityasaky 6y ago
  Note: OpIndia is far from an unbiased source.
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    They are linking to other articles to make their point, what else do you need? Okay, then you tell me an unbaised media outlet.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kbenson 6y ago
  Wow, so I'm not sure if it's because it's aimed at an audience slightly different than me, so the triggers fall flat, or if it's just really clumsily done, but I've honestly never seen something that is so obviously a hit piece and reaching for anything it can find. E.g. Amnesty is bad because their higher ups are mean people. Amnesty is bad because they said stuff in twitter that we want to interpret as attacking cows. Amnesty is bad because they work with a Muslim in guantanamo bay about prisoner rights that says stuff about middle east fighters. Edit: To clarify, I'm not taking a stance on whether AI is in the right or wrong, or the Indian government is right or wrong, since I don't really know, but this piece is obviously designed to make AI look bad through techniques that aren't useful, such as guilt through association (because it's much easier to color the associate when people are less familiar with them), providing little context but plenty of assumptions about intent for short bits of speech, etc.
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    Yes sir, what else do you need, you don't seem to accept when it's employees are corrupt, when it's administrators hold radical views. All these things doesn't matter why? Because they are angels fallen from heaven. https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...
    - kbenson 6y ago
      Portraying those that disagree with your methods as enemies and part of the opposition is a common way to discredit them and discount their objections. Being common doesn't mean it's excusable. That you accept any tactic against an organization you disagree with, and discount any criticism of those tactics and color the people doing so as unable to look at the situation rationally only exposes you yourself to the same criticism. I am not Indian. I do not know a lot of the details about Amnesty International and India. I can also easily spot many instances in the linked article where they are using techniques often used to present half-truths and sway opinion through purposeful misinterpretation and misrepresentation. I don't need to know more about the overall situation because I am not commenting on the overall situation, I'm noting what I see as blatant attempts to sway opinion not through fact and rational discourse, but propaganda. That's worth calling out whenever encountered, regardless of whether you agree with the goals of the people in question or not.
slickrick216 6y ago
Speculation as I don’t think this is actually fully the case. Does this cause a survivorship bias in civil right reporting where more reports come from more open countries. I doubt if true this would effect the extremes but probably the bulk in between nuance would be lost as it’s harder to tell due to less reporting.
codegladiator 6y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24625281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24625281
malware7 6y ago
Amnesty has been in trouble in lot of other (varyingly) democratic countries as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_Internati...
- fnord123 6y ago
  Let's put your vague hand-waving under the lens. The list of countries with whom Amnesty International are "in trouble" on that page: DRC, PRC, Russia, Sri Lanka, USA (regarding Guantanamo Bay), Vatican (regarding a neutral stance on abortion), Israel, Syria, Iran. This sounds like AI are doing their jobs.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    They may well be doing their jobs, but it's important to acknowledge that India's accusation of "interference in domestic political debates by entities funded by foreign donations" is substantially correct. They are indeed aiming to do that, and while it may well be good that they are, India's not the first country to be unhappy about it.
    - zentiggr 6y ago
      Let them be unhappy about it. With everything I've heard about their moves to stifle internal dissent, it's going to take every voice possible to push back against them.
  - mc32 6y ago
    >” Russian dissident Pavel Litvinov has said of AI's criticism of the US: "[B]y using hyperbole and muddling the difference between repressive regimes and the imperfections of democracy, Amnesty's spokesmen put its authority at risk. U.S. human rights violations seem almost trifling in comparison with those committed by Cuba, North Korea, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia” That’s from a Russian dissident, i.e. someone suffering under a regime known for heavy handedness.
    - 6y ago
samonderous 6y ago
Great to see this. Foreign interference should end.
aazaa 6y ago
> Amnesty says its bank accounts have been frozen and it's been forced to lay off staff in the country, and suspend all its campaign and research work. A good chunk of the reported charges by the organization revolve around access to funds and the use of the banking system. It's probably no coincidence that the Indian government has been relentless in its attempts to force the country to abandon banknotes and move to electronic payments routed through the banking system. Doing so gives the government the practical ability to bring organizations working against it to heel. This is a pattern that will play out over an over around the world as governments force their countries to abandon physical cash.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Shivetya 6y ago
  Organizations?! individuals can now be ruined with a click! plus if you want to force buying you can always go to negative rates and people have little choice in it. then we can get into all the privacy issues. the promises of privacy are always undone by some law, both those they let you know about and those you don't know about, and what is legal today may not be legal tomorrow. I never understood the fascination with individuals wanting to go to a digital currency only world. the people just don't have enough oversight on their own governments to permit it.
arjun1296 6y ago
I am very glad foreign funded vested interest groups working as NGOs like Amnesty International is leaving India for good. NGOs like Amnesty and Greenpeace has been involved in shady work in many places in India, including religious conversion and paid protests in remote villages. Hindus being a global minority need to be cautious and are worried about such conversion activities. Indian govt has been asking NGOs to comply with FCRA Norms and many including Amnesty Internation has failed to file annual returns despite mandatory legal(pre-2014 norms) requirements. India has millions of people living under poverty. To lift them out of poverty they need JOBS. Being an trade partner of US and UK, India has let functioning of shady NGOs like these work wrecklessly. Whether it is Nuclear power plant or Copper plant, NGOs have been involved in mass mobilisation of people by using foreign funds to stall projects so that donor companies benefit. If NGOs are so committed to their objective, they can raise funds from India itself to work for it. They don't need large donations from Multinational Corporation from abroad to raise objections in a democratic manner. By using foreign funds these NGOs have been successful in sabotaging Govt and Public-Private projects. So that donor Corporations can get benefitted. Similar mobilisation was also observed in Australia when Adani has been bidding for Coal mines. NGOs were not working for their objective, but also were transferring money from their account to other NGOs without proper clearance. Shady foreign money transfers from NGOs also prompted authorities to investigate these firms on FEMA Act. If NGOs were so clean, they can fight the battle with local money than CRYING. Foreign fund is NOT needed to fight so-called Hindu nationalism. Foreign fund is NOT needed to raise political objections in a democratic system. One cannot even read a recipe of a proper Gujrati Dhokla nowadays without constant screaming of "rising Hindu nationalism". XD https://www.firstpost.com/india/enforcement-directorate-raids-amnesty-internationals-india-office-in-bengaluru-over-alleged-fema-violations-5448021.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/enforcement-directorate-raid... https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/2019/09/05/ed-issues-show-cause-notice-to-amnesty-international-for-violating-foreign-exchange-law https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/2019/09/05/ed-... https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/mha-cancels-fcra-licences-of-1300-ngos/articleshow/71964523.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-natio... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/dining/indian-recipes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/dining/indian-recipes.htm...
- 6y ago
arjun1296 6y ago
The government didn't wake-up overnight to freeze NGO's assets. Many NGOs were NOT filing annual reports that they were supposed to be filing, and their compliance(even pre-2014 norms) were not ensured by the govt. UPA have used these NGOs to instigate protests in various state governments as Congress lacked strong real regional political activities and lack grass-root touch with people. It was visible with the strong presence of NGO activists in the unconstitutional body of National Advisory Council. Even after modification of norms, these NGOs were given sufficient notice and warning to file their reports. On failure, to which govt took drastic measure.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I’ve just noticed you’ve been copy/pasting your comments from another thread about this topic here–please don’t do that. It increases noise and really makes it seem like you’re trying to bury the discussion and use your account for ideological purposes, which is against the rules. I’m sure you didn’t do this on purpose but your actions are hard to distinguish from a bad actor so please try to not do that, thanks.
arjun1296 6y ago
A decent explanation of recent FCRA Amendments. https://lawbharat.wordpress.com/2020/09/28/fcra-amendment-2020/ https://lawbharat.wordpress.com/2020/09/28/fcra-amendment-20...
nilsocket 6y ago
https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=09 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Hey, I just wanted to point out that I've said this to another commenter in this thread but it also seems to apply to you as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629640. I am not a moderator but I've seen enough moderation to guess that you would also be breaking the guidelines.
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    I have just copy pasted in only two locations. That too only one comment.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      You do know your comment history is public, right? Your comments have been fairly clustered on one topic, and this isn't the only one you've largely copy-pasted. Now, I'm fairly open to the possibility that you are just someone who is not acquainted with the rules and has an interest in those subjects, but in general engaging in conversations about only one fairly political topic and making repetitive (read: low effort and easy to spam) makes your contributions seem very hard to distinguish from someone who is trying to wage ideological battle on the site.
      - nilsocket 6y ago
        I very much know my comment history is public. Except for two comments, I'm replying to other people comments or adding more resources to my previous comments. I'm a developer, I'm don't belong to BJP IT-cell, like the other guy is mentioning. I have just seen that, my country is being depicted badly for wrong reasons, despite evidence against Amnesty. As a citizen of this country, I felt responsible to educate and put forward, whatever I know. I have started commenting from around 4:30PM IST, while traveling. I didn't provide any sources for claims I have made previously, so I was indeed visiting each and every comment of my own and adding references, and replying to others. Edit: If you want proof, except for two comments, which I have copy pasted. All other were responses to other comments. I can share a screenshot, on telegram or gmail, my username is same across all platforms.

107 points by 0xmohit 6y ago

this needs to be looked along with the new FCRA laws passed by the government, which completely cripple civil societies in India. https://scroll.in/article/973909/behind-the-new-rules-for-ngos-to-get-foreign-funds-a-clear-political-message-fall-in-line https://scroll.in/article/973909/behind-the-new-rules-for-ng...

sbmthakur 6y ago
From the article: > The third, was to broaden the definition of the “government servant” category to include “public servants” among the people who cannot receive foreign funds. So, till now public servants were able to receive foreign funding?

nilsocket 6y ago

Amnesty is not an NGO, it is an organization with links to terrosits. https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnesty-international-its-links-to-radical-islam-and-british-government/ https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnes... Edit: Add other sources: https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...

adityasaky 6y ago
Note: OpIndia is far from an unbiased source.
- nilsocket 6y ago
  They are linking to other articles to make their point, what else do you need? Okay, then you tell me an unbaised media outlet.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kbenson 6y ago
Wow, so I'm not sure if it's because it's aimed at an audience slightly different than me, so the triggers fall flat, or if it's just really clumsily done, but I've honestly never seen something that is so obviously a hit piece and reaching for anything it can find. E.g. Amnesty is bad because their higher ups are mean people. Amnesty is bad because they said stuff in twitter that we want to interpret as attacking cows. Amnesty is bad because they work with a Muslim in guantanamo bay about prisoner rights that says stuff about middle east fighters. Edit: To clarify, I'm not taking a stance on whether AI is in the right or wrong, or the Indian government is right or wrong, since I don't really know, but this piece is obviously designed to make AI look bad through techniques that aren't useful, such as guilt through association (because it's much easier to color the associate when people are less familiar with them), providing little context but plenty of assumptions about intent for short bits of speech, etc.
- nilsocket 6y ago
  Yes sir, what else do you need, you don't seem to accept when it's employees are corrupt, when it's administrators hold radical views. All these things doesn't matter why? Because they are angels fallen from heaven. https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...
  - kbenson 6y ago
    Portraying those that disagree with your methods as enemies and part of the opposition is a common way to discredit them and discount their objections. Being common doesn't mean it's excusable. That you accept any tactic against an organization you disagree with, and discount any criticism of those tactics and color the people doing so as unable to look at the situation rationally only exposes you yourself to the same criticism. I am not Indian. I do not know a lot of the details about Amnesty International and India. I can also easily spot many instances in the linked article where they are using techniques often used to present half-truths and sway opinion through purposeful misinterpretation and misrepresentation. I don't need to know more about the overall situation because I am not commenting on the overall situation, I'm noting what I see as blatant attempts to sway opinion not through fact and rational discourse, but propaganda. That's worth calling out whenever encountered, regardless of whether you agree with the goals of the people in question or not.

slickrick216 6y ago

Speculation as I don’t think this is actually fully the case. Does this cause a survivorship bias in civil right reporting where more reports come from more open countries. I doubt if true this would effect the extremes but probably the bulk in between nuance would be lost as it’s harder to tell due to less reporting.

codegladiator 6y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24625281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24625281

malware7 6y ago

Amnesty has been in trouble in lot of other (varyingly) democratic countries as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_Internati...

fnord123 6y ago
Let's put your vague hand-waving under the lens. The list of countries with whom Amnesty International are "in trouble" on that page: DRC, PRC, Russia, Sri Lanka, USA (regarding Guantanamo Bay), Vatican (regarding a neutral stance on abortion), Israel, Syria, Iran. This sounds like AI are doing their jobs.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  They may well be doing their jobs, but it's important to acknowledge that India's accusation of "interference in domestic political debates by entities funded by foreign donations" is substantially correct. They are indeed aiming to do that, and while it may well be good that they are, India's not the first country to be unhappy about it.
  - zentiggr 6y ago
    Let them be unhappy about it. With everything I've heard about their moves to stifle internal dissent, it's going to take every voice possible to push back against them.
- mc32 6y ago
  >” Russian dissident Pavel Litvinov has said of AI's criticism of the US: "[B]y using hyperbole and muddling the difference between repressive regimes and the imperfections of democracy, Amnesty's spokesmen put its authority at risk. U.S. human rights violations seem almost trifling in comparison with those committed by Cuba, North Korea, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia” That’s from a Russian dissident, i.e. someone suffering under a regime known for heavy handedness.
  - 6y ago

samonderous 6y ago

Great to see this. Foreign interference should end.

aazaa 6y ago

> Amnesty says its bank accounts have been frozen and it's been forced to lay off staff in the country, and suspend all its campaign and research work. A good chunk of the reported charges by the organization revolve around access to funds and the use of the banking system. It's probably no coincidence that the Indian government has been relentless in its attempts to force the country to abandon banknotes and move to electronic payments routed through the banking system. Doing so gives the government the practical ability to bring organizations working against it to heel. This is a pattern that will play out over an over around the world as governments force their countries to abandon physical cash.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Shivetya 6y ago
Organizations?! individuals can now be ruined with a click! plus if you want to force buying you can always go to negative rates and people have little choice in it. then we can get into all the privacy issues. the promises of privacy are always undone by some law, both those they let you know about and those you don't know about, and what is legal today may not be legal tomorrow. I never understood the fascination with individuals wanting to go to a digital currency only world. the people just don't have enough oversight on their own governments to permit it.

arjun1296 6y ago

I am very glad foreign funded vested interest groups working as NGOs like Amnesty International is leaving India for good. NGOs like Amnesty and Greenpeace has been involved in shady work in many places in India, including religious conversion and paid protests in remote villages. Hindus being a global minority need to be cautious and are worried about such conversion activities. Indian govt has been asking NGOs to comply with FCRA Norms and many including Amnesty Internation has failed to file annual returns despite mandatory legal(pre-2014 norms) requirements. India has millions of people living under poverty. To lift them out of poverty they need JOBS. Being an trade partner of US and UK, India has let functioning of shady NGOs like these work wrecklessly. Whether it is Nuclear power plant or Copper plant, NGOs have been involved in mass mobilisation of people by using foreign funds to stall projects so that donor companies benefit. If NGOs are so committed to their objective, they can raise funds from India itself to work for it. They don't need large donations from Multinational Corporation from abroad to raise objections in a democratic manner. By using foreign funds these NGOs have been successful in sabotaging Govt and Public-Private projects. So that donor Corporations can get benefitted. Similar mobilisation was also observed in Australia when Adani has been bidding for Coal mines. NGOs were not working for their objective, but also were transferring money from their account to other NGOs without proper clearance. Shady foreign money transfers from NGOs also prompted authorities to investigate these firms on FEMA Act. If NGOs were so clean, they can fight the battle with local money than CRYING. Foreign fund is NOT needed to fight so-called Hindu nationalism. Foreign fund is NOT needed to raise political objections in a democratic system. One cannot even read a recipe of a proper Gujrati Dhokla nowadays without constant screaming of "rising Hindu nationalism". XD https://www.firstpost.com/india/enforcement-directorate-raids-amnesty-internationals-india-office-in-bengaluru-over-alleged-fema-violations-5448021.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/enforcement-directorate-raid... https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/2019/09/05/ed-issues-show-cause-notice-to-amnesty-international-for-violating-foreign-exchange-law https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/2019/09/05/ed-... https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/mha-cancels-fcra-licences-of-1300-ngos/articleshow/71964523.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-natio... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/dining/indian-recipes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/dining/indian-recipes.htm...

6y ago

arjun1296 6y ago

The government didn't wake-up overnight to freeze NGO's assets. Many NGOs were NOT filing annual reports that they were supposed to be filing, and their compliance(even pre-2014 norms) were not ensured by the govt. UPA have used these NGOs to instigate protests in various state governments as Congress lacked strong real regional political activities and lack grass-root touch with people. It was visible with the strong presence of NGO activists in the unconstitutional body of National Advisory Council. Even after modification of norms, these NGOs were given sufficient notice and warning to file their reports. On failure, to which govt took drastic measure.

saagarjha 6y ago
I’ve just noticed you’ve been copy/pasting your comments from another thread about this topic here–please don’t do that. It increases noise and really makes it seem like you’re trying to bury the discussion and use your account for ideological purposes, which is against the rules. I’m sure you didn’t do this on purpose but your actions are hard to distinguish from a bad actor so please try to not do that, thanks.

arjun1296 6y ago

A decent explanation of recent FCRA Amendments. https://lawbharat.wordpress.com/2020/09/28/fcra-amendment-2020/ https://lawbharat.wordpress.com/2020/09/28/fcra-amendment-20...

nilsocket 6y ago

https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=09 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...

saagarjha 6y ago
Hey, I just wanted to point out that I've said this to another commenter in this thread but it also seems to apply to you as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24629640. I am not a moderator but I've seen enough moderation to guess that you would also be breaking the guidelines.
- nilsocket 6y ago
  I have just copy pasted in only two locations. That too only one comment.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    You do know your comment history is public, right? Your comments have been fairly clustered on one topic, and this isn't the only one you've largely copy-pasted. Now, I'm fairly open to the possibility that you are just someone who is not acquainted with the rules and has an interest in those subjects, but in general engaging in conversations about only one fairly political topic and making repetitive (read: low effort and easy to spam) makes your contributions seem very hard to distinguish from someone who is trying to wage ideological battle on the site.
    - nilsocket 6y ago
      I very much know my comment history is public. Except for two comments, I'm replying to other people comments or adding more resources to my previous comments. I'm a developer, I'm don't belong to BJP IT-cell, like the other guy is mentioning. I have just seen that, my country is being depicted badly for wrong reasons, despite evidence against Amnesty. As a citizen of this country, I felt responsible to educate and put forward, whatever I know. I have started commenting from around 4:30PM IST, while traveling. I didn't provide any sources for claims I have made previously, so I was indeed visiting each and every comment of my own and adding references, and replying to others. Edit: If you want proof, except for two comments, which I have copy pasted. All other were responses to other comments. I can share a screenshot, on telegram or gmail, my username is same across all platforms.