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Good. Hope it’s permanent. Lambda is pioneering an ISA that only gets repaid if you find work in your field. Let the schools fail that graduate burger flipper

Good. Hope it’s permanent. Lambda is pioneering an ISA that only gets repaid if you find work in your field. Let the schools fail that graduate burger flippers and retail sales clerks with $50k in debt. Nothing wrong with those jobs if you need work but you shouldn’t have a system setup to saddle young people with $50k in debt to do that kind of work.

legerdemain 6y ago
Lambda was repeatedly in the news about reselling ISAs contra their marketing claims.[1][2] They also engage in puffery misrepresenting mixed-to-bad student outcomes.[3] I know Austen Allred can only fall up into more money, but my read on Lambda by this point is that it is a predatory institution. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135134/lambda-school-students-edly-isa-debt-swapping-partnership-shares-investors https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135134/lambda-school-st... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22313474 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22313474 [3] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-placement-rate-is-lower-than-claimed.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p...
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  For profit Ed? Predatory?! No! Who could have ever guessed?!
- imtringued 6y ago
  The only conflict of interest I see here is that lambda school could increase their student body within a single year by admitting worse students to sell the ISAs and then close up shop to run away with the money. The biggest victims would be the investors. Although it's possible it sounds very unlikely. You'd expect this from a Bitcoin exchange.
sJ646U9k6c6gME9 6y ago
The idea of Lambda is great, but their execution has been shit. First off, the ISAs are securitized and resold. Lambda has zero incentive to do anything above and beyond pushing students through some percentage of the program. Second, Lambda’s level of instruction in the software tracks is abysmal. I’ve witnessed someone in my household go through Lambda. Day after day she struggled to stay on top of a constantly shifting and poorly organized curriculum. It was taught by an incredibly inconsistent and constantly rotating cast of instructors. The only thing Lambda did provide with some consistency is structure & discipline. There are certainly people who won’t study anything on their own outside of an externally imposed framework that provides a daily cadence of learning as well as regular milestones. In this sense Lambda is a calendar priced like a mid-size family sedan. Third, Lambda’s career guidance and job placement assistance - both of which are advertised as part of the package - are simply laughable. It consists mainly of asking newly hired alumni to post their job offers in a highly visible Slack channel. This is meant to encourage participants to look for jobs “because surely you can do it if those other people can”. Otherwise Lambda doesn’t do anything to help one polish their resume or find jobs through networking. Last but not least, the ISA’s monthly payment is calculated based on gross pay before taxes are netted out. When viewed through this lens, the payment is a lot steeper than originally advertised. Buyer beware.
- mrfredward 6y ago
  >ISAs are securitized and resold. Lambda has zero incentive to do anything above and beyond pushing students through some percentage of the program. I disagree with your analysis of the incentives here. The price people pay for tomorrow's securitized ISAs depends heavily on how well today's ISAs pay off. It's a delay in the feedback loop, but it isn't broken. That being said, this incentive alone is likely weaker than the prevailing incentives in for-profit education, which seem to encourage saving a buck wherever possible and over-promising, under-delivering.
  - SkyPuncher 6y ago
    It is also better than nothing. If they show it works, others will follow. Lambda will improve its offering or someone else will come in with a better one.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  I'm extremely skeptical of bootcamps, especially after learning that some of the TA's at Lambda are hired to help with teaching as little as two months into the program as students[0]. It's no better than some diploma mills but any state school with half a decent curriculum sounds better than this. [0] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-placement-rate-is-lower-than-claimed.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p...
Qub3d 6y ago
FYI for others, ISA in this context means "Income-Sharing Agreement", not "International Study Abroad", which is what springs to mind when I read ISA in an educational context.
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
The core idea of an ISA is good, but I don't think anyone but the smartest people can be taught software engineering at the good level in just 6 months. Any job that requires creativity for large parts of it, cannot be learned in 6 months. The human brain requires a couple of years to play with various projects, to reflect on them, to digest lessons before you start getting mastery over the job.

legerdemain 6y ago

Lambda was repeatedly in the news about reselling ISAs contra their marketing claims.[1][2] They also engage in puffery misrepresenting mixed-to-bad student outcomes.[3] I know Austen Allred can only fall up into more money, but my read on Lambda by this point is that it is a predatory institution. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135134/lambda-school-students-edly-isa-debt-swapping-partnership-shares-investors https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135134/lambda-school-st... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22313474 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22313474 [3] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-placement-rate-is-lower-than-claimed.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p...

throwawaygh 6y ago
For profit Ed? Predatory?! No! Who could have ever guessed?!
imtringued 6y ago
The only conflict of interest I see here is that lambda school could increase their student body within a single year by admitting worse students to sell the ISAs and then close up shop to run away with the money. The biggest victims would be the investors. Although it's possible it sounds very unlikely. You'd expect this from a Bitcoin exchange.

sJ646U9k6c6gME9 6y ago

The idea of Lambda is great, but their execution has been shit. First off, the ISAs are securitized and resold. Lambda has zero incentive to do anything above and beyond pushing students through some percentage of the program. Second, Lambda’s level of instruction in the software tracks is abysmal. I’ve witnessed someone in my household go through Lambda. Day after day she struggled to stay on top of a constantly shifting and poorly organized curriculum. It was taught by an incredibly inconsistent and constantly rotating cast of instructors. The only thing Lambda did provide with some consistency is structure & discipline. There are certainly people who won’t study anything on their own outside of an externally imposed framework that provides a daily cadence of learning as well as regular milestones. In this sense Lambda is a calendar priced like a mid-size family sedan. Third, Lambda’s career guidance and job placement assistance - both of which are advertised as part of the package - are simply laughable. It consists mainly of asking newly hired alumni to post their job offers in a highly visible Slack channel. This is meant to encourage participants to look for jobs “because surely you can do it if those other people can”. Otherwise Lambda doesn’t do anything to help one polish their resume or find jobs through networking. Last but not least, the ISA’s monthly payment is calculated based on gross pay before taxes are netted out. When viewed through this lens, the payment is a lot steeper than originally advertised. Buyer beware.

mrfredward 6y ago
>ISAs are securitized and resold. Lambda has zero incentive to do anything above and beyond pushing students through some percentage of the program. I disagree with your analysis of the incentives here. The price people pay for tomorrow's securitized ISAs depends heavily on how well today's ISAs pay off. It's a delay in the feedback loop, but it isn't broken. That being said, this incentive alone is likely weaker than the prevailing incentives in for-profit education, which seem to encourage saving a buck wherever possible and over-promising, under-delivering.
- SkyPuncher 6y ago
  It is also better than nothing. If they show it works, others will follow. Lambda will improve its offering or someone else will come in with a better one.
908B64B197 6y ago
I'm extremely skeptical of bootcamps, especially after learning that some of the TA's at Lambda are hired to help with teaching as little as two months into the program as students[0]. It's no better than some diploma mills but any state school with half a decent curriculum sounds better than this. [0] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-placement-rate-is-lower-than-claimed.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p...

Qub3d 6y ago

FYI for others, ISA in this context means "Income-Sharing Agreement", not "International Study Abroad", which is what springs to mind when I read ISA in an educational context.

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

The core idea of an ISA is good, but I don't think anyone but the smartest people can be taught software engineering at the good level in just 6 months. Any job that requires creativity for large parts of it, cannot be learned in 6 months. The human brain requires a couple of years to play with various projects, to reflect on them, to digest lessons before you start getting mastery over the job.