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Why is the title inaccurate / different to the article? "Google requiring Android apps on the Play Store" Requiring all android apps (eg: from third party app

by zmmmmm 6y ago

Why is the title inaccurate / different to the article? "Google requiring Android apps on the Play Store" Requiring all android apps (eg: from third party app stores, built in apps shipped with phones or from vendors) as implied by the HN title would be a huge leap and have a lot of implications. But this is not that. I'm very surprised though by this statement from their post about it: > Less than 3% of developers with apps on Play sold digital goods over the last 12 months That seems astonishingly low - while I understand the Play Store is very ad driven, I had thought IAP was still a decent component of monetization. From this it sounds like the Play Store is a bit of an advertising wasteland ... or am I misunderstanding?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
p1necone 6y ago
Wow yeah that is a very crucial bit of information to leave out of the title.
harry8 6y ago
what percentage of user installed android apps in the wild come from somewhere other than the play store? Is it high?
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
  Thanks to China yes, they have their own ecosystem.
  - harry8 6y ago
    Yeah china is different. Instead of play store, "Default app store" to cover what ever comes with chinese phones. Or, US and Europe, what percentage...?
    - chungus_khan 6y ago
      Because there isn't a single unified store (vendors have their own), it's extremely common for Chinese websites to have a link on their homepage/in their header to an apk file that can self-update.
  - kkarakk 6y ago
    Lots of apps just get ripped off the android ecosystem and put on the chinese ecosystem if they're good enough.
- black_puppydog 6y ago
  I don't know reliable numbers for this and I'm not sure they exist. Would love to hear though! But just take stock of your surroundings. Think of everyone you know, and think who of them sideload apps on a regular basis. Now correct for the tech-affinity of your social surroundings (probably high if you hang out on HN...) For me, only the most hard-core of my friends sideload at all. Everyone else goes with stock apps. So sideloading should be in the regime of "count the zeros before the first non-zero mantissa digit."
  - filleduchaos 6y ago
    I don't live in anything remotely close to a tech bubble and nearly everyone I know with an Android has sideloaded apps at least once, including my parents. Don't confuse the US experience for the global one.
- gsich 6y ago
  It's in the single digits or even lower. None of my non-tech friends know such a thing exists.
- tpxl 6y ago
  Do note that google engaged in anti-competitive practices to discourage other stores emerging.
adewinter 6y ago
>> Less than 3% of developers with apps on Play sold digital goods over the last 12 months > That seems astonishingly low [...] That depends. I would not be surprised if there were an order of magnitude more "developers with apps on the Play Store" than on the iOS store, simply because of the lower barrier to entry ($$ and lock in patterns pushed by Apple makes it harder to get started on iOS). So would that mean 3% is actually astonishingly high?
nacs 6y ago
> Less than 3% of developers with apps on Play sold digital goods over the last 12 months That sounds like a cherry-picked number to downplay the change but: 1) That's 90,000 apps 2) The amount of revenue those apps (like Spotify and Netflix) generate is probably in the 10s or 100s of millions I'd bet that some of the largest revenue apps are the ones using their own billing -- the devs who make low-revenue apps probably don't want to spend the time or money to set all that up.
- camhart 6y ago
  For small indie devs who's products run on multiple platforms, supporting each platforms native IAP system is a nightmare.
  - kkarakk 6y ago
    if you're a small indie dev supporting multiple platform you're a unicorn. i don't think this is a common usecase. most devs tend to focus on apple initially and then make an android app if they blow up.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Or given that Apple only has 20% world wide, and the local market happens to be almost exclusively Android, a couple of other smartphones and feature phones, focus on Android first, and iOS only if it ever goes global.
      - akmarinov 6y ago
        If you want to reach people - yes. If you want to make money - Apple’s 20% greatly outspend Android’s users, so you should start there, to verify your product.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        It is hard to make money with iOS if no one in the country owns Apple devices (note "local market"), if you managed to do such feat please let us know.
binarynate 6y ago
Isn't it obvious that this would only apply to apps distributed through the Play Store, though? How else would Google be able enforce it?
- eugeniub 6y ago
  It's not at all obvious based on the title. Many people don't know about sideloading.
  - black_puppydog 6y ago
    Side loading is incredibly rare as a phenomenon. The important part of this discussion is not on the user side. Yeah they can sideload but really they won't do that because of IAP, of all things. The important part of this discussion is on the developer side. Going through Google will mean they get to shape what apps developers can even economically build without falling back to sideloading (which just won't happen, see above) and we already see how "great" that in the iOS ecosystem. Of course, you are in camp "IAP means clear and central subscription management, it's great for me!" then you might not care or even welcome this. I happen to be in camp "What is good for the user should not be contingent on the business model allowing for a 30% cut going to google." There are and will be products/services users want, but not at 1.30 times the price, and those will simply become impossible now. On the other hand... Let's just watch Rome burn and then see what we do with the ashes?
dang 6y ago
Ok, we've added the store to the title above.
tyingq 6y ago
"That seems astonishingly low" I imagine there are a ton of garbage apps that were created automatically for spam, seo, whatever reasons.
- jordanwallwork 6y ago
  Reminds me of this brilliant GDC Talk - 1,500 Slot Machines Walk into a Bar: Adventures in Quantity Over Quality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Lhqri8tZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Lhqri8tZk
- logicOnly 6y ago
  Maybe, but I know many people that release free Android apps. I've done it too. I think Android App development culture is extremely different than iOS Development.
dheera 6y ago
I wonder if they'll ban PayPal, Facebook Pay, WeChat, AliPay, Western Union, and all the rest of the lot?
- rrobukef 6y ago
  Each will have to negociate special terms with Google to continue operating.

by zmmmmm 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

p1necone 6y ago

Wow yeah that is a very crucial bit of information to leave out of the title.

harry8 6y ago

what percentage of user installed android apps in the wild come from somewhere other than the play store? Is it high?

9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
Thanks to China yes, they have their own ecosystem.
- harry8 6y ago
  Yeah china is different. Instead of play store, "Default app store" to cover what ever comes with chinese phones. Or, US and Europe, what percentage...?
  - chungus_khan 6y ago
    Because there isn't a single unified store (vendors have their own), it's extremely common for Chinese websites to have a link on their homepage/in their header to an apk file that can self-update.
- kkarakk 6y ago
  Lots of apps just get ripped off the android ecosystem and put on the chinese ecosystem if they're good enough.
black_puppydog 6y ago
I don't know reliable numbers for this and I'm not sure they exist. Would love to hear though! But just take stock of your surroundings. Think of everyone you know, and think who of them sideload apps on a regular basis. Now correct for the tech-affinity of your social surroundings (probably high if you hang out on HN...) For me, only the most hard-core of my friends sideload at all. Everyone else goes with stock apps. So sideloading should be in the regime of "count the zeros before the first non-zero mantissa digit."
- filleduchaos 6y ago
  I don't live in anything remotely close to a tech bubble and nearly everyone I know with an Android has sideloaded apps at least once, including my parents. Don't confuse the US experience for the global one.
gsich 6y ago
It's in the single digits or even lower. None of my non-tech friends know such a thing exists.
tpxl 6y ago
Do note that google engaged in anti-competitive practices to discourage other stores emerging.

adewinter 6y ago

>> Less than 3% of developers with apps on Play sold digital goods over the last 12 months > That seems astonishingly low [...] That depends. I would not be surprised if there were an order of magnitude more "developers with apps on the Play Store" than on the iOS store, simply because of the lower barrier to entry ($$ and lock in patterns pushed by Apple makes it harder to get started on iOS). So would that mean 3% is actually astonishingly high?

nacs 6y ago

> Less than 3% of developers with apps on Play sold digital goods over the last 12 months That sounds like a cherry-picked number to downplay the change but: 1) That's 90,000 apps 2) The amount of revenue those apps (like Spotify and Netflix) generate is probably in the 10s or 100s of millions I'd bet that some of the largest revenue apps are the ones using their own billing -- the devs who make low-revenue apps probably don't want to spend the time or money to set all that up.

camhart 6y ago
For small indie devs who's products run on multiple platforms, supporting each platforms native IAP system is a nightmare.
- kkarakk 6y ago
  if you're a small indie dev supporting multiple platform you're a unicorn. i don't think this is a common usecase. most devs tend to focus on apple initially and then make an android app if they blow up.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Or given that Apple only has 20% world wide, and the local market happens to be almost exclusively Android, a couple of other smartphones and feature phones, focus on Android first, and iOS only if it ever goes global.
    - akmarinov 6y ago
      If you want to reach people - yes. If you want to make money - Apple’s 20% greatly outspend Android’s users, so you should start there, to verify your product.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        It is hard to make money with iOS if no one in the country owns Apple devices (note "local market"), if you managed to do such feat please let us know.

binarynate 6y ago

Isn't it obvious that this would only apply to apps distributed through the Play Store, though? How else would Google be able enforce it?

eugeniub 6y ago
It's not at all obvious based on the title. Many people don't know about sideloading.
- black_puppydog 6y ago
  Side loading is incredibly rare as a phenomenon. The important part of this discussion is not on the user side. Yeah they can sideload but really they won't do that because of IAP, of all things. The important part of this discussion is on the developer side. Going through Google will mean they get to shape what apps developers can even economically build without falling back to sideloading (which just won't happen, see above) and we already see how "great" that in the iOS ecosystem. Of course, you are in camp "IAP means clear and central subscription management, it's great for me!" then you might not care or even welcome this. I happen to be in camp "What is good for the user should not be contingent on the business model allowing for a 30% cut going to google." There are and will be products/services users want, but not at 1.30 times the price, and those will simply become impossible now. On the other hand... Let's just watch Rome burn and then see what we do with the ashes?

dang 6y ago

Ok, we've added the store to the title above.

tyingq 6y ago

"That seems astonishingly low" I imagine there are a ton of garbage apps that were created automatically for spam, seo, whatever reasons.

jordanwallwork 6y ago
Reminds me of this brilliant GDC Talk - 1,500 Slot Machines Walk into a Bar: Adventures in Quantity Over Quality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Lhqri8tZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Lhqri8tZk
logicOnly 6y ago
Maybe, but I know many people that release free Android apps. I've done it too. I think Android App development culture is extremely different than iOS Development.

dheera 6y ago

I wonder if they'll ban PayPal, Facebook Pay, WeChat, AliPay, Western Union, and all the rest of the lot?

rrobukef 6y ago
Each will have to negociate special terms with Google to continue operating.