4 ms·

If you assume that everybody follows the proper distancing and wears a mask, we'd have already solved this pandemic 6 months ago. Assuming people will follow p

by nostoc 6y ago

If you assume that everybody follows the proper distancing and wears a mask, we'd have already solved this pandemic 6 months ago. Assuming people will follow proper protocols, whether they are police officers or not, is not a good plan.

mytailorisrich 6y ago
It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public. And this has also to be balanced with the fact that the Police requires a high level of security (not a good idea for them to be tracked by a third party app). It's much more important, because much more significant both in term of raw numbers and in term of risk of non compliance, to ensure that the general public follows the same: I was at the supermarket yesterday and the app told me that no less than 5 positive people were inside... with no consequences.
- outworlder 6y ago
  > It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public This is not supported by evidence. In other words, the world doesn't function the way we wish it would.
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    > This is not supported by evidence. What's your evidence? Because police do have procedures that are internally enforced whereas the general public does not and is not exactly keen on rules (as we've seen) Sounds like some people are criticising for the sake of it because this is the Police...
    - throw_away 6y ago
      Evidence like this: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/face-masks/oregon-troopers-refuse-face-masks-coffee-shop/283-70e10fa3-aa88-41ba-b4be-35dc20280e09 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/face-mas...
      - andybak 6y ago
        I'm not sure comparisons between Oregon Troopers and UK police are especially useful. (Not saying uk police are perfect but something like the this in the linked article would be less likely here)
        throw_away 6y ago
        Because the premise I was responding to was "It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public." I didn't take that as meaning a specific police force, but rather, police in general. I was specifically responding to mytaylorrsrich's comment that people are reacting negatively to the police just because they are police, whereas my point was that they were believing that the police always held themselves to a higher standard just because they were police. I'm not convinced that is the case, and this link is a point of evidence to that effect.
        mytailorisrich 6y ago
        The police do have procedures and do behave much better than the general public. As also repeated the police has extra security constraints, which must be balanced with any benefits the tracking app bring. Clearly they think that allowing a third party app which goal is real-time tracking, on police phones has more downsides than upsides. I don't know anything about American police and I don't care. This is not the topic of the discussion, which is about an UK tracking app and UK police forces. I do think that shooting this advice against installing the app (on police phones) and my comments down is largely being obtuse because it's the police or because they don't want to acknowledge the specificities of police work.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
lurkmurk 6y ago
What is the most common way of transmision? I assume not random policemen but relatives and friends. Try doing distancing there.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  The problem is that policemen are well-connected nodes in the transmission graph. Those on fieldwork will meet a lot more random people any given day than you or I will on a shopping run.
LudwigNagasena 6y ago
I don’t remember anyone saying the pandemic would be solved in a few months if everyone followed proper protocols. It was about flattening the curve, which in fact should increase the length of the pandemic.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  China, Taiwan, and a number of other states (many in east / southeast Asia) have effectively contained the virus. China did so in 6--8 weeks. Western countries notably have not.
  - LudwigNagasena 6y ago
    Well, maybe Western countries should have talked about containing the virus, not flattening the curve.
    - graeme 6y ago
      Indeed it was a massive messaging error. For maybe 20% more short term work we’d be in a new zealand/east asia situation. Summer was the time to do it. Now we just have hard choices.
      - makomk 6y ago
        At this point, I think it's pretty clear that New Zealand's approach couldn't be expected to lead to New Zealand-style results in places that aren't relatively small islands a thousand miles or so by sea from the nearest neighbour. There are just too many infections that slip through the net even after banning most people from travelling there and requiring returnees to quarantine in state-run facilities at their own expense for two weeks - it works for them, but the same level of per-capita leakage in a country with even ten times the population would cause such a stream of imported cases spreading Covid in the community that I don't think it'd ever be able to drop below level three restrictions, let alone beome Covid-free. In reality the UK probably wouldn't even be able to manage that - for example, we have a constant stream of lorry drivers coming in from locations throughout Europe to destinations throughout the UK, many of them with absolutely vital goods, and that's a great way to spread Covid from country to country. Somewhere like the US would stand even less chance.

by nostoc 6y ago

mytailorisrich 6y ago

It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public. And this has also to be balanced with the fact that the Police requires a high level of security (not a good idea for them to be tracked by a third party app). It's much more important, because much more significant both in term of raw numbers and in term of risk of non compliance, to ensure that the general public follows the same: I was at the supermarket yesterday and the app told me that no less than 5 positive people were inside... with no consequences.

outworlder 6y ago
> It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public This is not supported by evidence. In other words, the world doesn't function the way we wish it would.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  > This is not supported by evidence. What's your evidence? Because police do have procedures that are internally enforced whereas the general public does not and is not exactly keen on rules (as we've seen) Sounds like some people are criticising for the sake of it because this is the Police...
  - throw_away 6y ago
    Evidence like this: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/face-masks/oregon-troopers-refuse-face-masks-coffee-shop/283-70e10fa3-aa88-41ba-b4be-35dc20280e09 https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/face-mas...
    - andybak 6y ago
      I'm not sure comparisons between Oregon Troopers and UK police are especially useful. (Not saying uk police are perfect but something like the this in the linked article would be less likely here)
      - throw_away 6y ago
        Because the premise I was responding to was "It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public." I didn't take that as meaning a specific police force, but rather, police in general. I was specifically responding to mytaylorrsrich's comment that people are reacting negatively to the police just because they are police, whereas my point was that they were believing that the police always held themselves to a higher standard just because they were police. I'm not convinced that is the case, and this link is a point of evidence to that effect.
        mytailorisrich 6y ago
        The police do have procedures and do behave much better than the general public. As also repeated the police has extra security constraints, which must be balanced with any benefits the tracking app bring. Clearly they think that allowing a third party app which goal is real-time tracking, on police phones has more downsides than upsides. I don't know anything about American police and I don't care. This is not the topic of the discussion, which is about an UK tracking app and UK police forces. I do think that shooting this advice against installing the app (on police phones) and my comments down is largely being obtuse because it's the police or because they don't want to acknowledge the specificities of police work.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

lurkmurk 6y ago

What is the most common way of transmision? I assume not random policemen but relatives and friends. Try doing distancing there.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
The problem is that policemen are well-connected nodes in the transmission graph. Those on fieldwork will meet a lot more random people any given day than you or I will on a shopping run.

LudwigNagasena 6y ago

I don’t remember anyone saying the pandemic would be solved in a few months if everyone followed proper protocols. It was about flattening the curve, which in fact should increase the length of the pandemic.

dredmorbius 6y ago
China, Taiwan, and a number of other states (many in east / southeast Asia) have effectively contained the virus. China did so in 6--8 weeks. Western countries notably have not.
- LudwigNagasena 6y ago
  Well, maybe Western countries should have talked about containing the virus, not flattening the curve.
  - graeme 6y ago
    Indeed it was a massive messaging error. For maybe 20% more short term work we’d be in a new zealand/east asia situation. Summer was the time to do it. Now we just have hard choices.
    - makomk 6y ago
      At this point, I think it's pretty clear that New Zealand's approach couldn't be expected to lead to New Zealand-style results in places that aren't relatively small islands a thousand miles or so by sea from the nearest neighbour. There are just too many infections that slip through the net even after banning most people from travelling there and requiring returnees to quarantine in state-run facilities at their own expense for two weeks - it works for them, but the same level of per-capita leakage in a country with even ten times the population would cause such a stream of imported cases spreading Covid in the community that I don't think it'd ever be able to drop below level three restrictions, let alone beome Covid-free. In reality the UK probably wouldn't even be able to manage that - for example, we have a constant stream of lorry drivers coming in from locations throughout Europe to destinations throughout the UK, many of them with absolutely vital goods, and that's a great way to spread Covid from country to country. Somewhere like the US would stand even less chance.