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Is a Turtle an Animal or a Fish?
- jeffnv 6y agoAre fish not animals? Thanks a lot American Public School System.
- tyingq 6y agoExtending animal rights laws to fish would be a pretty impactful decision.
- Falling3 6y agoSo would extending them to farm animals. (I'm aware there are ostensible protections for farm animals, but they offer very little protection even if they were consistently enforced. Animals raised for food are often explicitly exempted from animal protections.)
- ainiriand 6y agoAs do the bulls in bullfighting. They have no rights or protection against torture. All those laws are only good as long as they do not interfere with human behavior. They only have rights as long as it is not uncomfortable for us.
- lopmotr 6y agoSounds like the Human Rights Act in New Zealand, and probably lots of countries. You're not allowed to discriminate based on race, sex, age, etc. except for all the cases where people routinely do discriminate in those ways. It pretty much just encoded the existing societal norms rather than actually changing anything.
- cies 6y agoImpact meaning, good for the environment? I hear again and again that some parts of the sea are nearly empty.
- ribosometronome 6y agoIf you read through the entire article, that is part of the point. It's an interesting take on how the judicial system was used in the 1800s with animal cruelty.
- protomyth 6y agoWell, I thought it was just the crappy reservation school that miseducated me, but I guess we both get to blame government classification for tradition and economics. A scarier subject you will not find. One of my favorite threads on HN has government classifications run to the absurd [edit] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12781157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12781157 [/edit]
- hamaluik 6y agoFish don’t actually exist ;) Wonderful book on the topic: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50887097-why-fish-don-t-exist https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50887097-why-fish-don-t-...
- stan_rogers 6y ago...or "fish" is synonymous with "chordata". I'm happy to call myself a fish.
- boxed 6y agoI teach my kids this. its the only reasonable interpretation. Plus "reptile" is "amniota", making us reptiles.
- dan-robertson 6y agoFish are actually made from soil. When it slips from the riverbank into the water it, becomes a fish. At least, this theory plus history is the reason catholics may eat fish on their no-meat Fridays.
- ada1981 6y agoI thought the fish eating was economic policy to support the fisherman.
- jibal 6y agoAs the article that you didn't read notes, the title comes from a newspaper piece of the time that reflected "confusion about some basic biological concepts".
- throwaway889900 6y agoObviously turtles are partially insects because they have exoskeletons. /s
- bioinformatics 6y agoInsects are animals too.
- ribosometronome 6y agoOr are they fish?
- nightfly 6y agoNo, fish are insects.
- Izkata 6y agoCounterpoint for downvoters, the Silverfish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverfish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverfish
- seanhunter 6y agoNote that while you correctly point out that the Silverfish is a fish, its close relative the woodlouse is in fact a type of wood, and therefore part of the vegetable kingdom. Turns out ontologies are confusing and probably can be some of complete, consistent, coherent or correspond to common sense but not all of the above. Whenever these types of debates come up (eg "Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable?" or indeed any "Is x a type of y?") I'm reminded of Borges[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_Emporium_of_Benevolent_Knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_Emporium_of_Benevole...
- isp 6y agoQuote attributed to Freeman Dyson (of "Dyson sphere" fame): > When I was a boy in England long ago, people who traveled on trains with dogs had to pay for a dog ticket. The question arose whether I needed to buy a dog ticket when I was traveling with a tortoise. The conductor on the train gave me the answer: "Cats is dogs and rabbits is dogs but tortoises is insects and travel free according." https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7236984-when-i-was-a-boy-in-england-long-ago-people https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7236984-when-i-was-a-boy-in...
- mr_toad 6y agoThat’s nothing How many people know what Kingdom a barnacle, a sponge, coral, or kelp belongs to.
- z3phyr 6y agoBarnacles obviously came from Xen after the Resonance Cascade
- Const-me 6y agoNo one ever will if people will continue to invent new kingdoms: the answer for the kelp changed a few years ago.
- carlob 6y agoGoose barnacles are a fun example, because they were used to claim that the goose was fish rather than fowl and hence it was the only meat to be allowed during lent.
- stillbourne 6y agoThe catholic church also classified beaver as a fish for the same reason.
- birdyrooster 6y ago> He claimed to have “never seen any person dying in agony.” Now where have I seen this line of reasoning recently... Edit: Downvote me. Thanks.
- as_keyof_typeof 6y agoThe biggest animal cruelty is killing animals unnecessarily for food.
- atulatul 6y agoI like this clip from a QI episode where they discuss if there is such a thing called as fish (as per Stephen Jay Gould) Particularly like David Mitchell and Sean Lock (or as a comment spells his last name Locke) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhwcEvMJz1Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhwcEvMJz1Y
- dodoc 6y agoYes! This is where the No Such Thing as a Fish podcast derives it’s name. Interesting, fun facts/discussion.
- sunstone 6y agoI'm sure taxonomists would agree that a turtle on land is an animal whereas a turtle in the sea with fin type legs is a fish.
- ipsum2 6y ago> turtles had the misfortune in the nineteenth century of pleasing the palates of wealthy Europeans and Americans, who found the gelatinous “green fat” under the turtle’s shell a particular delicacy [...] Wealthy men in New York expressed their passion for turtle meat by joining “turtle clubs,” convening each season for meals in which the reptile’s flesh formed the center of every course—soups, steaks, chowders, and salads Wow, what an interesting fad. I'm curious about what turtle tastes like, and if it has any comparisons with fatty tuna (otoro) or wagyu. Edit: Like veal, apparently: https://reason.com/2010/03/09/sea-turtle-tastes-like-veal/ https://reason.com/2010/03/09/sea-turtle-tastes-like-veal/. Also, according to the article, farming may be a sustainable source of sea turtle meat.
- tasogare 6y agoSame story in China, where turtles disappeared millenia ago after being hunted for making dishes. Interestingly, they were also used as a writing support.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y agoIf you post something intriguing, such as about being a "writing support", please provide a link! It's sounds so interesting.
- fouc 6y ago> Green sea turtles have a relatively slow growth rate because of the low nutritional value of their diet. Body fat turns green because of the consumed vegetation.[61] This diet shift has an effect on the green turtle's skull morphology.[63] Their serrated jaw helps them chew algae and sea grasses.[64] Most adult sea turtles are strictly herbivorous.[61] They might not be very efficient for farming for food without some breeding perhaps. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_sea_turtle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_sea_turtle
- sradman 6y agoDuring the Age of Discovery, live sea turtles were captured and stored in the hulls of ships as a source of fresh protein. Because of their slow metabolism, turtles can live a long time while tightly packed in the hull. Sailors would gather female turtles when they nested on shore. It is my understanding that some coral fringed islands that served as turtle nesting sites had a channel blown out of the reef using explosives. These channels are still used for the main pier and modern boat traffic.
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y agoThe article is an excerpt from a new book. However, this is only made clear at the very end of the article. So, once more, I'm led to read an advertisement for somebody's book under the guise of well, something that's not an advertisement.
- lioeters 6y ago..It gives me an idea for a film script, where the protagonist has a chance encounter with an attractive person, goes through a series of mishaps and life-changing adventures that bond them together, then at the end finds out that it's all been sponsored by ACME Corps to sell him toothpaste.
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y agoWell, now you're doing it... (advertising your next movie) :P
- riffraff 6y agonot a film script, and no advertising, but you may enjoy "if on a winter's night a traveler"[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_on_a_winter%27s_night_a_traveler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_on_a_winter%27s_night_a_tra...
- 6y ago
- simion314 6y agoThe title reminds me about myself in first grade in school , I asked the teacher if a bat is a bird or animal and she responded "it is a mammal" but she failed to explain what it mean and in my mind I thought that mammal is something that is half bird half animal.