6 ms·

Most are horrible. One of the reasons is overlap. Your hands do occasionally hit keys on the other side. You want a pair of 2/3 keyboards, rather than 1/2 keyb

• Waterluvian 6y ago
  I was told by one friend that they made it really hard to use a normal keyboard effectively after a few years. Did you find that?
  • dd82 6y ago
    not really. I use the kinesis freestyle at my desk 90% of the time, but have no issues with my personal computer at the kitchen table or couch.
  • colinjoy 6y ago
    It took a few months, not years, for me. I don‘t mind it. 99% of my time spent typing happens at my own desk(s) and the few times I use someone else’s keyboard don‘t justify compromising on comfort with my own setup. A big part of what makes it hard for me to use a normal keyboard now, isn‘t so much the physical shape, but the programmability and additional modifier keys offered by the UHK, both of which I use a lot.
  • Pawka 6y ago
    I'm using UHK for almost a year and can share with my experience. It really depends on a keyboard - if it is similar to regular one or not. The UHK is pretty similar to regular keyboard - keys are staggered (not ortholinear), there are no additional thumb keys which are also not available on a regular laptop keyboard. After a year with UHK I'm still able to jump between laptop and UHK when needed. Somehow muscle memory "detects" when my hands are on UHK and I start using additional shortcuts which are not available on laptop. Meanwhile if you'd pick something like Dactyl https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard, I believe it would be more difficult to jump arround. P.S. After a year my typing speed on split keyboard is higher compared to laptop.
    • wl 6y ago
      I use a Kinesis Advantage, which is a split ortholinear design with the keys in bowls and thumb clusters, just like the Dactyl. I have no issues switching between that and normal keyboards.
      • Pawka 6y ago
        Good to know. Thanks!
      • sleepybrett 6y ago
        Same. Though I now feel like when I code on a normal keyboard it feels .. un-natural. I'm still approx as fast, it just doesn't feel right?
  • chansiky 6y ago
    I almost always use a split keyboard when I'm able to set up a stationary environment. But I love to go mobile: coffee shops, beaches, couch, bar counters. I never forget how to use a normal keyboard, nor do I lose any speed. That might be the trick, maybe you need to switch between the two occasionally.
    • bbojan 6y ago
      I have this crazy plan to create a harness where the two keyboard halves hang on the sides of your body (think sitting or standing with your arms naturally hanging down - the keyboards will be positioned under your palms). But I'm still not sure if it would be too cyborg-y enough to use in public...
      • chansiky 6y ago
        HAHA! Could be just sewn into your pants. Then you could just walk around the hood wearing some AR goggles while you work. Doesn't solve the tendency for your arms to swing in the opposite direction of you legs though.
      • eeZah7Ux 6y ago
        It won't work.
      • fuzzymuppet 6y ago
        I've had the exact same idea. I would love to not be constrained to having to sit down infront of a screen. My dream setup would be a projector-screen on the wall and being able to walk freely around while coding.
  • sjy 6y ago
    I’ve been using an Atreus split ortholinear keyboard with the Colemak layout for more than a year now, and I have no difficulty switching back to a standard Qwerty staggered keyboard when I use my laptop or someone else’s computer.
    • kule 6y ago
      Yeah funnily enough I found something similar when my normal Mac keyboard died and I had to use a old dell one. Despite 10 years of Mac usage my subconscious felt the Dell keyboard, remembered my windows usage and started using ctrl instead of cmd automatically! How did you find switching to Atreus& colemak? I was thinking of doing something similar and going to Corne/Colemak...
      • sjy 6y ago
        I think it took about two months before I was no longer tempted to switch back to Qwerty to get my speed back (my original keyboard layout had a toggle). I don’t recall any issues with switching keyboards, just layouts.
  • jon-wood 6y ago
    I use an Ergodox EZ for most of my typing, and don't really notice any major problems adjusting back to a standard keyboard on the odd occasion I find myself using a laptop keyboard instead. The only exception to that is for the first half hour or so I'll try holding caps-lock to get control, and just get escape being held instead.
  • simias 6y ago
    I've been doing most of my typing on an Ergodox for years and while switching to a "normal" keyboard feels clunky and a bit awkward I can still type reasonably well on those. I guess it just becomes a lot more obvious how un-ergonomic those are (especially for the left hand in my experience). Having to bend your hand in weird ways to hit the modifiers feels odd when you're used to have them fall naturally below your fingers.
  • generalk 6y ago
    I've been using an Ergodox EZ for a lot of professional work for a few years now, but since I'm bouncing between that and laptop keyboards regularly, I haven't found any issues switching between layouts. I do occasionally try to use some custom-mapped ergodox keys the wrong way on a laptop keyboard, but it's a momentary embarrassment and not a thing that impedes my work.
  • 112233 6y ago
    after half year on kinesis I started to touchtype on "normal" keyboards. Now, few years in, still no problems.
  • StavrosK 6y ago
    My desktop has a split keyboard and I switch between that and the laptop's normal one pretty effortlessly. Even all the shortcuts just come. However, after not using my Das keyboard for a few weeks, I found that I couldn't type with it at all any more. I realized later that that's because the distance between the keys is smaller, so after I realized that and compensated, it became easier to type there. I never use it, though, so I haven't put in any effort.
  • craigkilgo 6y ago
    I don't find it hard to go back (which I do if I use just my laptop). I do find it reminds me of the weird angle laptop keyboards force my shoulders and wrists into.
  • 1-more 6y ago
    I've been on an ortho (Let's Split) and a vertical staggered board (Iris) for a few years now. The Iris is stuck in my locked office that we can't go back into for the foreseeable future so I'm on the Let's Split (with pedals!) at home. Honestly I think I still type faster on a Macbook Pro keyboard, and that's the one that everyone hates. I'm plenty fast on the ones I built myself, but still just fine on that one. The big thing is that I will sometimes reach for a layer combo that isn't there on the MBP. It's very rare, since I think the staggered layout mostly hits my muscle memory preventing that, but it can happen that I'll almost hit a nonexistent chord on it. Never actually typed them out that I can remember though.
• oskardenandre 6y ago
  Now I've only used one split keyboard and only for about three years. The Ergodox Ez. And I think it combats every aspect you've pointed out, except the part about it being expensive. However, put that into perspective and it feels like this keyboard will outlive me. I'll probably get another one for home use when I can go back to the office...
• the_gipsy 6y ago
  1. An ortho keyboard, e.g. crkbd fixes this. This made me finally touch-type after 20 years of using keyboards. 2. Yes :) 3. You do have great choice between splitting and tenting and wrist rests. 4. The keyboard in question has trackpoint, trackball, and trackpad accessories. Bottom line is that once you enter the realm of unconventional keyboards, you will want a very custom one. You are right in that. This one is quite customizable, but there is always something you want different (a.k.a. endgame is a lie).
  • varrock 6y ago
    A comment above mentions that the benefits of an ortho board are not worth the learning curve of typing on one. Would you mind addressing the benefits you've found as somebody who is endorsing them?
    • bbojan 6y ago
      See my reply to it above. I feel this is highly individually dependent and you have to try it yourself.
    • the_gipsy 6y ago
      The curve is indeed steep! I had to force myself to only use the ortho keeb for a week or two (resist using the laptop keyboard). Since then I'm sailing ortho only, so much that I sold some very expensive staggered keyboard, because I know I will not use staggered anymore if I can. The benefits were obvious immediately, even while not touch-typing yet. Every key is assigned to a finger without ambiguity. Except for some shortcut combinations, but even then it feels clear. You use your pinky more which I think is good (I also play the guitar). The number one advantage is that my hand is never lost anymore. With staggered, every other word or command makes my hand "float" somewhere away from the "home row/keys", with a subsequent mistype or look-down. This does not happen anymore.
• simias 6y ago
  >One of the reasons is overlap. Your hands do occasionally hit keys on the other side. When I switched to a split keyboard I did have this problem at first (with the B and 6 keys in particular on a QWERTY layout) but it took me a week to relearn that. In particular if you use an ortholinear layout on each side there's really no reason to go fishing for keys with the wrong hand. This in turn means that you can add new keys in the middle that are easy to reach, addressing your 2nd point since it lets you have more "special keys" in the middle. >Another is key action. You want proper mechanical keys. That's orthogonal. I like mechanical switches because there's a lot of variety to chose from and they're easy to replace if one goes wrong (a strong advantage on an expensive ergo keyboard that you don't want to replace because of a broken switch) but there are very decent membrane keyboard out there. It's really a matter of taste in the end. After all some people even like those low profile keyboards like the Apple ones that I personally find horrible to type on... >For me, I also like having a trackpoint. I'm not saying that's common, but a lot of people want /some/ oddball feature like that. For one person, it might be lighted keys. For another, swapped capslock. Etc. But you're moving the goalpost completely here. It's fine if you like trackpoints but you can't call keyboards "horrible" if they don't support your niche dream build. I don't care for trackpoints personally and it'd probably annoy me to have one on the middle of my keyboard. >For one person, it might be lighted keys. For another, swapped capslock. Etc. RGB lighting is fairly standard these days, and swapped capslock is normally easy to achieve either by reconfiguring the keyboard or, if not possible, the OS. >And then there's the mass of people who don't care about keyboard and buy the cheapest possible model. Split keyboards are $$$. That is true, ergo keyboards can be very expensive. That being said for the average HNer it's probably still worth it, after all we spend most of our days typing on keyboards, having to shell ~$300 to get a keyboard that will last us for years and improve our comfort is a no-brainer, at least for me. I've been using an ergodox for years and while it does cost a lot it checks all of your points besides the overlap (which I think is a bad idea) and the trackpoint. It uses QMK under the hood so you can reconfigure it any way you want. And that's not the only one either, you have the dactyl, the manuform, the moonlander and many others. It's not 2009 anymore, custom keyboards are more accessible than ever (if you have the money for them...)
  • wegs 6y ago
    My goalposts are "a keyboard which works for me." That's where they were, and that's where they will be. If I give up a few things I like about my existing keyboard to get what you like about your keyboard, that's a bad deal. I think that's true for most people. The type of mechanical keys on my keyboards really reduce the amount of strain on my wrist relative to membrane keyboards. It's not just a matter of taste. There's much less of a bump on the bottom if the key can continue moving after the keystroke is triggered. Membrane keyboards can do a little bit of that, but not nearly as well. Trackpoint, implemented well, means I can do casual mousing (e.g. switching focus) without moving my hands to the mouse. That reduces shoulder strain. You're welcome to call things I like "a bad idea," and I could do the reverse just as well, but at the end of the day, I ain't buying. I know what works for me, and I haven't found an "ergo" keyboard which does.
• city41 6y ago
  Can you give an example of overlap? I use a Kinesis Advantage 2 and never overlap at all.
• realharo 6y ago
  I have an Ergodox EZ that I've used for about 4 months now, and it definitely took some time getting used to. I dropped from about 90 wpm to below 40 in the first few days, but now I'm back up to over 80, with fewer mistakes on average - I guess I'm slower at correcting them, so I try to type more accurately. Previously I was used to typing some of the letters on the edges with the "wrong" hand (e.g. typing Y with my left hand) so I mapped an Y onto both halves, but eventually I got rid of that mapping. I also had to gradually make many other small adjustments to the layout (which is thankfully really easy), because while you can adapt to typing of the letters fairly quickly, keyboard shortcuts and function keys are another matter (especially if you were used to using the function key row with Ctrl/Alt/Shift modifiers). Having your arms naturally apart is pretty comfortable though, and I also like how cool it looks with the blank keycaps and the metal legs. If anything, I had bigger issues with a MacBook keyboard, due to the missing Home/End keys, which I use all the time for selecting code (e.g End followed by a Shift+Home or vice versa to select a row, or using Shift+PageUp/PageDown plus arrows to select a block, are very ingrained in my muscle memory).
  • oskardenandre 6y ago
    Right now I do not care about my wpm, it's at least as fast as I can think. What I do care about is the ergonomics and the customizability, where the Ergodox Ez excels. I don't ever need to stretch out far or in any weird way anymore. Heck, most of the time I don't need to stretch out for my mouse anymore.
• akerro 6y ago
  > Most are horrible. Most of all keyboards on market are horrible.
• foogazi 6y ago
  I’ve been using the Kinesys Freestyle + Apple trackpad since covid I discovered I was using the wrong hand for the & key and that took some time getting used to - I do wish some keys on the middle rows were available on both sides
• jjkaczor 6y ago
  >One of the reasons is overlap. Your hands do occasionally >hit keys on the other side. That has been my biggest re-learning curve - but with only the 6/7 numeric keys (which, apparently I use often) - the one thing that I would have loved with the Kinesis RGB Edge, would have been a dedicated number pad on the right-side. >Another is key action. You want proper mechanical keys. Kinesis RGB Edge allows you to choose which "cherry mx" mechanical keys you get when ordering. (I sound like a shill - but, I am very satisfied after a month of ownership - pricey, yes - but well worth it)
  • chrisBob 6y ago
    Kinesis Freestyle Pro has Cherry mx brown or silent red and shaves a little money compared to the RGB version
    • jjkaczor 6y ago
      Does it have backlighting? (frankly, I didn't need or use all of the "RGB" features, so that was overkill - not a gamer)
      • chrisBob 6y ago
        No backlighting at all on the Freestyle Pro.
    • JeremyNT 6y ago
      > Kinesis Freestyle Pro has Cherry mx brown or silent red and shaves a little money compared to the RGB version I actually have both keyboards and they're pretty similar. A trick here though, the RGB aka "gaming" version of the Freestyle includes wrist rests, which are $15 extra in the "Freestyle Pro," so the cost difference isn't as much as it seems. Neither includes the nifty tenting stands. You probably will want both of those accessories, so keep that in mind when pricing. The Freestyle Pro also puts the ESC and FN keys in weird spots. You can remap them, but it's kind of annoying to move the caps around (there's also no "normal" size esc key cap to use...). All in all, it's probably worth just getting the RGB, even if you don't care about the RGB feature.
• tzs 6y ago
  > One of the reasons is overlap. Your hands do occasionally hit keys on the other side. You want a pair of 2/3 keyboards, rather than 1/2 keyboards. You /especially/ want a lot of the "special" keys on both sides. Why stop at 2/3? Apple Magic Keyboards are compact enough that for many people with reasonably wide shoulders they could just use two of those at once. A setup with an Apple Magic Trackpad in the middle, two Magic Keyboards on the sides, and a mouse farther to the side might be quite reasonable.