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Read the replies from Chinese nationals on HN defending TikTok. Even they don't pretend you can say anything you want there. Their argument is "How much time

Read the replies from Chinese nationals on HN defending TikTok. Even they don't pretend you can say anything you want there. Their argument is "How much time would you really spend discussing Tiananmen or criticizing the CCP? Is it really worth losing contact with your friends or colleagues who use TikTok and WeChat?" In my opinion, absolutely. Stop it now before it gets too powerful to ban. WeChat already has 19 million US users.

pessimizer 6y ago
Are you pretending you can say anything you want on US owned social media? I still remember when Facebook censored an anti-wingsuit post. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12419313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12419313
- mondoshawan 6y ago
  There is a world of difference to the consequences here. One is content being taken down. The other is possible arrest, gulag, or dissapearance if you ever go to China.
dvdkon 6y ago
Maybe if freedom of speech on social media platforms is an issue (it is, in my opinion), there should be laws regulating it that would apply to any businesses operating in the US, not just ad-hoc executive orders of dubious objectiveness.
- gabaix 6y ago
  That’s an excellent idea. The issue is there is also soft censorship through algorithm tweaking. A law like this should require third party auditing of the companies.
- causality0 6y ago
  Personally I believe there should be a public alternative to most private internet services. An internet post office whose only rules are the laws of the United States. It's not going to happen, though. Google is too powerful.
yorwba 6y ago
As someone who has actually talked about the Tiananmen Square protests on WeChat and occasionally corrects misconceptions about how difficult that is, I don't think banning the app will help in any way, since the ban will just reduce the volume of such messages even more. The status quo is that you only need some minor skill at language games to talk about forbidden topics without using any keywords that trigger censorship. With a ban in place, at least one of the participants additionally has to circumvent their country's firewall to reach the other side. Censoring censored media even more is not a good way to fight censorship. I'm also not sure why you think "How much time would you really spend discussing Tiananmen or criticizing the CCP?" is talking about TikTok, since you can absolutely do that there https://www.tiktok.com/tag/tiananmen https://www.tiktok.com/tag/tiananmen
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  Generally I would agree that it is a bad step to ban the app. It can still normalize censorship and if it becomes a main market player, you might loose the ability to talk about it and other apps might follow just because of the success. Ideally people would stop using it by choice. Perhaps too much to ask, but I know enough people that wouldn't use it precisely because of these issues. Agreed that it is easy to play language games, but maybe your intention is to draw attention of a larger crowd that would be completely oblivious to it.
- causality0 6y ago
  since the ban will just reduce the volume of such messages even more. Trying to "win the hearts and minds" of the Chinese people is a lost cause. Either they agree with the CCP or they've adapted to its restrictions. All we can do is try to keep that ideology from spreading beyond their borders.

pessimizer 6y ago

Are you pretending you can say anything you want on US owned social media? I still remember when Facebook censored an anti-wingsuit post. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12419313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12419313

mondoshawan 6y ago
There is a world of difference to the consequences here. One is content being taken down. The other is possible arrest, gulag, or dissapearance if you ever go to China.

dvdkon 6y ago

Maybe if freedom of speech on social media platforms is an issue (it is, in my opinion), there should be laws regulating it that would apply to any businesses operating in the US, not just ad-hoc executive orders of dubious objectiveness.

gabaix 6y ago
That’s an excellent idea. The issue is there is also soft censorship through algorithm tweaking. A law like this should require third party auditing of the companies.
causality0 6y ago
Personally I believe there should be a public alternative to most private internet services. An internet post office whose only rules are the laws of the United States. It's not going to happen, though. Google is too powerful.

yorwba 6y ago

As someone who has actually talked about the Tiananmen Square protests on WeChat and occasionally corrects misconceptions about how difficult that is, I don't think banning the app will help in any way, since the ban will just reduce the volume of such messages even more. The status quo is that you only need some minor skill at language games to talk about forbidden topics without using any keywords that trigger censorship. With a ban in place, at least one of the participants additionally has to circumvent their country's firewall to reach the other side. Censoring censored media even more is not a good way to fight censorship. I'm also not sure why you think "How much time would you really spend discussing Tiananmen or criticizing the CCP?" is talking about TikTok, since you can absolutely do that there https://www.tiktok.com/tag/tiananmen https://www.tiktok.com/tag/tiananmen

raxxorrax 6y ago
Generally I would agree that it is a bad step to ban the app. It can still normalize censorship and if it becomes a main market player, you might loose the ability to talk about it and other apps might follow just because of the success. Ideally people would stop using it by choice. Perhaps too much to ask, but I know enough people that wouldn't use it precisely because of these issues. Agreed that it is easy to play language games, but maybe your intention is to draw attention of a larger crowd that would be completely oblivious to it.
causality0 6y ago
since the ban will just reduce the volume of such messages even more. Trying to "win the hearts and minds" of the Chinese people is a lost cause. Either they agree with the CCP or they've adapted to its restrictions. All we can do is try to keep that ideology from spreading beyond their borders.