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Pro Tip: leave your reviews after the stay. Another pro tip: know the local laws. American’s are THE WORST overseas because we think ‘Merica way of life is worl

Pro Tip: leave your reviews after the stay. Another pro tip: know the local laws. American’s are THE WORST overseas because we think ‘Merica way of life is world wide. No, it isn’t, and you’d to well to humble yourself, learn the local laws, conduct yourself as if you were at Nana’s house. Wheaton’s law: “Don’t be a dick”. But Thailand’s defamation laws, online laws, and more kinda turn me off from visiting. Granted the person in the story is an American that lives and works in Thailand as a teacher, still, you would think he would know the laws and not let his American ego get the best of him.

thefounder 6y ago
Well, being dick shouldn't put you in jail.
- pengaru 6y ago
  I would not be surprised one bit if Singapore punished being a dick with N lashes in a public square.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - mamon 6y ago
    Which by the way might a perfect way of punishing dicks - nothing like pain and public humiliation to cure inflated egos.
    - adventured 6y ago
      > Which by the way might a perfect way of punishing dicks - nothing like pain and public humiliation to cure inflated egos. That's a sub-human system of torture and brutality that you're cheering for, which would be rife with false accusations and witch-hunting style assaults by the mob as large groups of people would increasingly lust to harm outcasts and persecute smaller collections of minorities. Are we burning people with inflated egos today? Stonings? Pulling finger nails out? That person over there, they've got an inflated ego, I saw them taking a selfie on Tuesday! It would be the perfect way to run a stalinist gulag perhaps.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - Igelau 6y ago
      That seems like a decent enough idea when you're 14 or so, but you need to understand how these things pan out IRL. When Fill-In-Political-Party-You-Don't-Like takes charge, lobbies to expand the definition of dickery, adds criticism of corporal punishment policies to the list, and rules that you are a dick... now it's just about the worst idea.
  - etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
    I've lived in Singapore and they have a strong legal system, they don't just punish you for "being a dick". They do have a lot of strict laws, however.
    - pengaru 6y ago
      Sure, my comment was meant to further demonstrate how different nations have different laws foreigners must respect when within their borders. I've read multiple articles over the years about foreigners being caned in Singapore over relatively minor actions, hence my not being surprised if they did such a thing. Here's one such example: https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pain-of-his-caning-in-singapore.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pa... Singapore strikes me as an interesting mix of an archaic kingdom with a modern culture and economy. I'm not necessarily against their use of corporal punishment and strict laws, it seems to be a generally nice place.
      - etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
        I remember that! I went to the same school as that student. Blast from the past. It was a big news deal amongst the expats of the time. Although clearly he did a little more than simply just being a dick.
      - csa 6y ago
        > I've read multiple articles over the years about foreigners being caned in Singapore over relatively minor actions, hence my not being surprised if they did such a thing. The Michael Fay story was reported with a heavy bias in the US — the media conveniently left our significant parts of the story. I have friends who were expats in Singapore at the time, and this is (approximately) their version: - He was caught vandalizing multiple times. - The first time he was given a stern warning. - After successive events, his family was warned that their son was in grave danger, and their status in the country was at risk. - After one or more additional events, they suggested to the family that Michael should leave the country immediately. His parents found that inconvenient due to their jobs being in Singapore. - After another event, it was suggested to the family that both they and their son should leave Singapore immediately. Again, they chose not to leave. - Finally, after multiple warnings, and one or more additional transgressions, they threw the book at him. - According to my friends, most of the expats thought he was a rotten kid, and they thought he deserved it. Note that this jibes with how I have seen a lot of law enforcement happen (esp. with Americans) in Japan, Korea, and HK. Specifically, warnings often happen before the hammer comes down, and that usually solves the problem. But if and when the hammer comes down, the outcome will be very bad for the recipient. When I have discussed this matter and this type of justice with folks from Japan, Korea, and HK, they all think it is fairly reasonable, and they don’t know of anyone personally who was not given a reasonable chance (obviously small sample size, and obviously the system isn’t always reasonable, but the consistency of the answers was surprising to me). All that said, I suspect that some folks from developing countries may reasonably disagree with my assessment of Japan. I haven’t had the chance to speak with specific parts of those communities, so it’s hard to know what the reality is.
- chillacy 6y ago
  Harassment might though, if the hotel is to be believed in this story.
- JusticeJuice 6y ago
  There's a difference between being a dick, and trying to negatively affect a business's revenue with multiple, fabricated negative reviews posted over several weeks. Over the fact you didn't want to pay corkage for bringing in outside alcohol (a pretty normal thing).
  - kjs3 6y ago
    Is that really the level of being a dick that should land you in a foreign prison?
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      I don't see why not. The net damage might be equivalent to stealing significant money.
      - kevindong 6y ago
        Stealing implies one party enriches themselves at the expense of another. A better term for this situation would be "costing."
        lostmsu 6y ago
        I was specifically referring to damage.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - ufmace 6y ago
      "Should" is a dubious word to use here. That's what the law is there, and what you or I think "should" happen isn't relevant.
      - visarga 6y ago
        It's relevant for other tourists who want to know the level of risk they are subjecting themselves when visiting. The Thai resort really Barbra Streisand'ed this.
- refurb 6y ago
  That’s a very Western point of view and not held by much of the world.
- mdoms 6y ago
  Says who? You, the American? Your values are not universal.
- bdcravens 6y ago
  Perhaps, but as America has a reputation for putting people in jail for quite a few ridiculous reasons, we should be the last people to pass judgment on other countries' arrest policies.
smnrchrds 6y ago
I feel like if leaving a one-star review of Google Maps can put you in jail in Thailand, it is highly irresponsible and unethical of Google to allow leaving reviews in Thailand. They should remove review feature entirely for Thailand, or disable lower ratings, or show a giant flashing warning explaining what you are risking by leaving the review.
- watwut 6y ago
  The issue was not so much rating as content of comment. In particular they took offence over his claim they engaged on modern day slavery. That particular comment was taken down cause it broke site guidelines.
  - cnst 6y ago
    It's just a figure of speech. What's so gravely offensive about it?
    - hiharryhere 6y ago
      “Modern slavery” isn’t a figure of speech. It has a specific meaning describing worker exploitation. For example the UK has the Modern Slavery Act - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Slavery_Act_2015 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Slavery_Act_2015
    - refurb 6y ago
      Context matters, in this case location. It’s like joking about child prostitution in Cambodia. As an American it’s something that happens in far away lands (not entirely true, it happens in the US too). In Cambodia, it’s a very serious issue that really pisses of locals since it’s mostly Western tourists supporting it there. Joke about it in the US and it’s just frowned upon. Do it in Cambodian and you’ll piss people off enough to get yourself in trouble.
    - rsynnott 6y ago
      I mean, it’s at least arguably an allegation of a crime. I wouldn’t be a fan of criminal libel still existing, but that’s a case where it might be appropriate for the hotel to take a civil libel case, assuming it’s unfounded.
oh_sigh 6y ago
Sorry, but Americans are not the worst, no matter what you as the stereotypical self-deprecating American may think. If you asked Thai people who the worst are, they'd probably say Chinese tourists.
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  What if “they” didn’t think stereotypically and instead were open to the idea that individual people might think individually, regardless of race, culture, or nationality?
  - unglaublich 6y ago
    That would solve so many problems.....
  - tuna-piano 6y ago
    Agreed. But interesting how the "American tourists are the worst!" comment is currently upvoted and the "Nope, actually the Chinese are the worst" is downvoted. Even if you believe it true that a pattern of a grouping of people is more often true than not doesn't mean it's something you should go around proudly stating.
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    Ironically, this is an extremely Western mindset you're what-iffing. And you don't need to rely on stereotypes for a population to have a preference(or viewpoint) on something. If you say pizza is Americans favorite food, because 60% of individuals you ask say pizza is their favorite food, then no stereotype is in play.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  Chinese tourists do have quite a reputation for creating a nuisance. But in most of Asia the tourists who have the worst reputation for most outrageous behaviour has to be the Russians and Australians. Russians and Australians going to Asian tourist destinations, getting extremely drunk and starting fights is pretty much a cliche.
tssva 6y ago
Foreign travellers in the US can be as bad or worse than US travelers in other countries. Many Europeans, Asians, Africans, South Americans etc do no better job informing themselves of and following local customs in the US than Americans do in their countries.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dehrmann 6y ago
> know the local laws I've been to Singapore. There's the ones everyone knows about like the drug laws, not spitting, littering, or chewing gum. The one people don't mention is that cars also have the right of way over pedestrians, so be extra careful when crossing the street.
- Igelau 6y ago
  So it's like Chicago, but clean?
- howlgarnish 6y ago
  Pedestrians have right of way at pedestrian crossings. Cars have right of way elsewhere. https://sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/RTA1961-R24?DocDate=20190131#pr4- https://sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/RTA1961-R24?DocDate=20190131#pr4- This is pretty standard, and Singapore is way safer for pedestrians than virtually any Asian country outside Japan.
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    In many states of the US, cars are never granted right of way over pedestrians. Instead pedestrians are required to yield the right of way to cars outside of crosswalks. It's an important distinction because it places a legal burden on the driver to attempt to avoid hitting a pedestrian.
  - bkor 6y ago
    Pedestrians generally have right of way. Singapore is pretty exceptional in this. Further, loads of Asian countries are pretty poor safety wise. I don't think a comparison to other Asian countries is beneficial. Singapore probably also benefits that owning a car is quite expensive, plus sort of ok public transport (a bus is terribly slow though!). Singapore still heavily favours a car. A public transport ride can be easily 2x-3x the time as a car trip. From your link: > Elderly pedestrians accounted for two-thirds of all pedestrian fatalities. (1 in 2 accidents involving elderly pedestrians was due to jaywalking) Singapore does seem safe in a deaths/100k comparison. There's some EU figures where the best country does about ~20/million (so around ~2.0/100k). Singapore has 2.2/100k. Things such as "jaywalking" is not a thing in loads of countries. Also, the traffic lights are horrendous. You need to wait way too long. See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbVWXzL4-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbVWXzL4-4 for various examples of way quicker lights.
ergocoder 6y ago
I don't know why you brought up "don't be a dick". It's unrelated to the matter at hand. We don't know whether they were a dick or not. Even if they were, they didn't deserve to be jailed. What we know for sure is that they went to jail because of a bad online review. This is like telling a rape victim to not be a dick. Like wtf. Why is it even related? As a Thai, we hope foreigners will help Thailand come up with better consumer protection. Thailand don't protect consumer as much as it should, and that's fucking sad.
Simon_says 6y ago
> learn the local laws I'm local to America, and I can assure you no human being is capable of learning my local laws. How many federal laws are there? No one even knows! http://kowal.com/?q=How-Many-Federal-Laws-Are-There%3F http://kowal.com/?q=How-Many-Federal-Laws-Are-There%3F What hope do I have of learning local laws somewhere else? What hope does a foreigner have in America? The best you can hope for is to get a cheatsheet of some big common differences and then keep a low profile.

thefounder 6y ago

Well, being dick shouldn't put you in jail.

pengaru 6y ago
I would not be surprised one bit if Singapore punished being a dick with N lashes in a public square.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mamon 6y ago
  Which by the way might a perfect way of punishing dicks - nothing like pain and public humiliation to cure inflated egos.
  - adventured 6y ago
    > Which by the way might a perfect way of punishing dicks - nothing like pain and public humiliation to cure inflated egos. That's a sub-human system of torture and brutality that you're cheering for, which would be rife with false accusations and witch-hunting style assaults by the mob as large groups of people would increasingly lust to harm outcasts and persecute smaller collections of minorities. Are we burning people with inflated egos today? Stonings? Pulling finger nails out? That person over there, they've got an inflated ego, I saw them taking a selfie on Tuesday! It would be the perfect way to run a stalinist gulag perhaps.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - Igelau 6y ago
    That seems like a decent enough idea when you're 14 or so, but you need to understand how these things pan out IRL. When Fill-In-Political-Party-You-Don't-Like takes charge, lobbies to expand the definition of dickery, adds criticism of corporal punishment policies to the list, and rules that you are a dick... now it's just about the worst idea.
- etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
  I've lived in Singapore and they have a strong legal system, they don't just punish you for "being a dick". They do have a lot of strict laws, however.
  - pengaru 6y ago
    Sure, my comment was meant to further demonstrate how different nations have different laws foreigners must respect when within their borders. I've read multiple articles over the years about foreigners being caned in Singapore over relatively minor actions, hence my not being surprised if they did such a thing. Here's one such example: https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pain-of-his-caning-in-singapore.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pa... Singapore strikes me as an interesting mix of an archaic kingdom with a modern culture and economy. I'm not necessarily against their use of corporal punishment and strict laws, it seems to be a generally nice place.
    - etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
      I remember that! I went to the same school as that student. Blast from the past. It was a big news deal amongst the expats of the time. Although clearly he did a little more than simply just being a dick.
    - csa 6y ago
      > I've read multiple articles over the years about foreigners being caned in Singapore over relatively minor actions, hence my not being surprised if they did such a thing. The Michael Fay story was reported with a heavy bias in the US — the media conveniently left our significant parts of the story. I have friends who were expats in Singapore at the time, and this is (approximately) their version: - He was caught vandalizing multiple times. - The first time he was given a stern warning. - After successive events, his family was warned that their son was in grave danger, and their status in the country was at risk. - After one or more additional events, they suggested to the family that Michael should leave the country immediately. His parents found that inconvenient due to their jobs being in Singapore. - After another event, it was suggested to the family that both they and their son should leave Singapore immediately. Again, they chose not to leave. - Finally, after multiple warnings, and one or more additional transgressions, they threw the book at him. - According to my friends, most of the expats thought he was a rotten kid, and they thought he deserved it. Note that this jibes with how I have seen a lot of law enforcement happen (esp. with Americans) in Japan, Korea, and HK. Specifically, warnings often happen before the hammer comes down, and that usually solves the problem. But if and when the hammer comes down, the outcome will be very bad for the recipient. When I have discussed this matter and this type of justice with folks from Japan, Korea, and HK, they all think it is fairly reasonable, and they don’t know of anyone personally who was not given a reasonable chance (obviously small sample size, and obviously the system isn’t always reasonable, but the consistency of the answers was surprising to me). All that said, I suspect that some folks from developing countries may reasonably disagree with my assessment of Japan. I haven’t had the chance to speak with specific parts of those communities, so it’s hard to know what the reality is.
chillacy 6y ago
Harassment might though, if the hotel is to be believed in this story.
JusticeJuice 6y ago
There's a difference between being a dick, and trying to negatively affect a business's revenue with multiple, fabricated negative reviews posted over several weeks. Over the fact you didn't want to pay corkage for bringing in outside alcohol (a pretty normal thing).
- kjs3 6y ago
  Is that really the level of being a dick that should land you in a foreign prison?
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    I don't see why not. The net damage might be equivalent to stealing significant money.
    - kevindong 6y ago
      Stealing implies one party enriches themselves at the expense of another. A better term for this situation would be "costing."
      - lostmsu 6y ago
        I was specifically referring to damage.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - ufmace 6y ago
    "Should" is a dubious word to use here. That's what the law is there, and what you or I think "should" happen isn't relevant.
    - visarga 6y ago
      It's relevant for other tourists who want to know the level of risk they are subjecting themselves when visiting. The Thai resort really Barbra Streisand'ed this.
refurb 6y ago
That’s a very Western point of view and not held by much of the world.
mdoms 6y ago
Says who? You, the American? Your values are not universal.
bdcravens 6y ago
Perhaps, but as America has a reputation for putting people in jail for quite a few ridiculous reasons, we should be the last people to pass judgment on other countries' arrest policies.

smnrchrds 6y ago

I feel like if leaving a one-star review of Google Maps can put you in jail in Thailand, it is highly irresponsible and unethical of Google to allow leaving reviews in Thailand. They should remove review feature entirely for Thailand, or disable lower ratings, or show a giant flashing warning explaining what you are risking by leaving the review.

watwut 6y ago
The issue was not so much rating as content of comment. In particular they took offence over his claim they engaged on modern day slavery. That particular comment was taken down cause it broke site guidelines.
- cnst 6y ago
  It's just a figure of speech. What's so gravely offensive about it?
  - hiharryhere 6y ago
    “Modern slavery” isn’t a figure of speech. It has a specific meaning describing worker exploitation. For example the UK has the Modern Slavery Act - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Slavery_Act_2015 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Slavery_Act_2015
  - refurb 6y ago
    Context matters, in this case location. It’s like joking about child prostitution in Cambodia. As an American it’s something that happens in far away lands (not entirely true, it happens in the US too). In Cambodia, it’s a very serious issue that really pisses of locals since it’s mostly Western tourists supporting it there. Joke about it in the US and it’s just frowned upon. Do it in Cambodian and you’ll piss people off enough to get yourself in trouble.
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    I mean, it’s at least arguably an allegation of a crime. I wouldn’t be a fan of criminal libel still existing, but that’s a case where it might be appropriate for the hotel to take a civil libel case, assuming it’s unfounded.

oh_sigh 6y ago

Sorry, but Americans are not the worst, no matter what you as the stereotypical self-deprecating American may think. If you asked Thai people who the worst are, they'd probably say Chinese tourists.

wombatmobile 6y ago
What if “they” didn’t think stereotypically and instead were open to the idea that individual people might think individually, regardless of race, culture, or nationality?
- unglaublich 6y ago
  That would solve so many problems.....
- tuna-piano 6y ago
  Agreed. But interesting how the "American tourists are the worst!" comment is currently upvoted and the "Nope, actually the Chinese are the worst" is downvoted. Even if you believe it true that a pattern of a grouping of people is more often true than not doesn't mean it's something you should go around proudly stating.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  Ironically, this is an extremely Western mindset you're what-iffing. And you don't need to rely on stereotypes for a population to have a preference(or viewpoint) on something. If you say pizza is Americans favorite food, because 60% of individuals you ask say pizza is their favorite food, then no stereotype is in play.
AmericanChopper 6y ago
Chinese tourists do have quite a reputation for creating a nuisance. But in most of Asia the tourists who have the worst reputation for most outrageous behaviour has to be the Russians and Australians. Russians and Australians going to Asian tourist destinations, getting extremely drunk and starting fights is pretty much a cliche.

tssva 6y ago

Foreign travellers in the US can be as bad or worse than US travelers in other countries. Many Europeans, Asians, Africans, South Americans etc do no better job informing themselves of and following local customs in the US than Americans do in their countries.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dehrmann 6y ago

> know the local laws I've been to Singapore. There's the ones everyone knows about like the drug laws, not spitting, littering, or chewing gum. The one people don't mention is that cars also have the right of way over pedestrians, so be extra careful when crossing the street.

Igelau 6y ago
So it's like Chicago, but clean?
howlgarnish 6y ago
Pedestrians have right of way at pedestrian crossings. Cars have right of way elsewhere. https://sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/RTA1961-R24?DocDate=20190131#pr4- https://sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/RTA1961-R24?DocDate=20190131#pr4- This is pretty standard, and Singapore is way safer for pedestrians than virtually any Asian country outside Japan.
- aidenn0 6y ago
  In many states of the US, cars are never granted right of way over pedestrians. Instead pedestrians are required to yield the right of way to cars outside of crosswalks. It's an important distinction because it places a legal burden on the driver to attempt to avoid hitting a pedestrian.
- bkor 6y ago
  Pedestrians generally have right of way. Singapore is pretty exceptional in this. Further, loads of Asian countries are pretty poor safety wise. I don't think a comparison to other Asian countries is beneficial. Singapore probably also benefits that owning a car is quite expensive, plus sort of ok public transport (a bus is terribly slow though!). Singapore still heavily favours a car. A public transport ride can be easily 2x-3x the time as a car trip. From your link: > Elderly pedestrians accounted for two-thirds of all pedestrian fatalities. (1 in 2 accidents involving elderly pedestrians was due to jaywalking) Singapore does seem safe in a deaths/100k comparison. There's some EU figures where the best country does about ~20/million (so around ~2.0/100k). Singapore has 2.2/100k. Things such as "jaywalking" is not a thing in loads of countries. Also, the traffic lights are horrendous. You need to wait way too long. See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbVWXzL4-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbVWXzL4-4 for various examples of way quicker lights.

ergocoder 6y ago

I don't know why you brought up "don't be a dick". It's unrelated to the matter at hand. We don't know whether they were a dick or not. Even if they were, they didn't deserve to be jailed. What we know for sure is that they went to jail because of a bad online review. This is like telling a rape victim to not be a dick. Like wtf. Why is it even related? As a Thai, we hope foreigners will help Thailand come up with better consumer protection. Thailand don't protect consumer as much as it should, and that's fucking sad.

Simon_says 6y ago

> learn the local laws I'm local to America, and I can assure you no human being is capable of learning my local laws. How many federal laws are there? No one even knows! http://kowal.com/?q=How-Many-Federal-Laws-Are-There%3F http://kowal.com/?q=How-Many-Federal-Laws-Are-There%3F What hope do I have of learning local laws somewhere else? What hope does a foreigner have in America? The best you can hope for is to get a cheatsheet of some big common differences and then keep a low profile.