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Hotel guest in Thailand jailed for defamation after posting bad online reviews
- gabereiser 6y agoPro Tip: leave your reviews after the stay. Another pro tip: know the local laws. American’s are THE WORST overseas because we think ‘Merica way of life is world wide. No, it isn’t, and you’d to well to humble yourself, learn the local laws, conduct yourself as if you were at Nana’s house. Wheaton’s law: “Don’t be a dick”. But Thailand’s defamation laws, online laws, and more kinda turn me off from visiting. Granted the person in the story is an American that lives and works in Thailand as a teacher, still, you would think he would know the laws and not let his American ego get the best of him.
- thefounder 6y agoWell, being dick shouldn't put you in jail.
- pengaru 6y agoI would not be surprised one bit if Singapore punished being a dick with N lashes in a public square.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mamon 6y agoWhich by the way might a perfect way of punishing dicks - nothing like pain and public humiliation to cure inflated egos.
- adventured 6y ago> Which by the way might a perfect way of punishing dicks - nothing like pain and public humiliation to cure inflated egos. That's a sub-human system of torture and brutality that you're cheering for, which would be rife with false accusations and witch-hunting style assaults by the mob as large groups of people would increasingly lust to harm outcasts and persecute smaller collections of minorities. Are we burning people with inflated egos today? Stonings? Pulling finger nails out? That person over there, they've got an inflated ego, I saw them taking a selfie on Tuesday! It would be the perfect way to run a stalinist gulag perhaps.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Igelau 6y agoThat seems like a decent enough idea when you're 14 or so, but you need to understand how these things pan out IRL. When Fill-In-Political-Party-You-Don't-Like takes charge, lobbies to expand the definition of dickery, adds criticism of corporal punishment policies to the list, and rules that you are a dick... now it's just about the worst idea.
- etaioinshrdlu 6y agoI've lived in Singapore and they have a strong legal system, they don't just punish you for "being a dick". They do have a lot of strict laws, however.
- pengaru 6y agoSure, my comment was meant to further demonstrate how different nations have different laws foreigners must respect when within their borders. I've read multiple articles over the years about foreigners being caned in Singapore over relatively minor actions, hence my not being surprised if they did such a thing. Here's one such example: https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pain-of-his-caning-in-singapore.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pa... Singapore strikes me as an interesting mix of an archaic kingdom with a modern culture and economy. I'm not necessarily against their use of corporal punishment and strict laws, it seems to be a generally nice place.
- etaioinshrdlu 6y agoI remember that! I went to the same school as that student. Blast from the past. It was a big news deal amongst the expats of the time. Although clearly he did a little more than simply just being a dick.
- csa 6y ago> I've read multiple articles over the years about foreigners being caned in Singapore over relatively minor actions, hence my not being surprised if they did such a thing. The Michael Fay story was reported with a heavy bias in the US — the media conveniently left our significant parts of the story. I have friends who were expats in Singapore at the time, and this is (approximately) their version: - He was caught vandalizing multiple times. - The first time he was given a stern warning. - After successive events, his family was warned that their son was in grave danger, and their status in the country was at risk. - After one or more additional events, they suggested to the family that Michael should leave the country immediately. His parents found that inconvenient due to their jobs being in Singapore. - After another event, it was suggested to the family that both they and their son should leave Singapore immediately. Again, they chose not to leave. - Finally, after multiple warnings, and one or more additional transgressions, they threw the book at him. - According to my friends, most of the expats thought he was a rotten kid, and they thought he deserved it. Note that this jibes with how I have seen a lot of law enforcement happen (esp. with Americans) in Japan, Korea, and HK. Specifically, warnings often happen before the hammer comes down, and that usually solves the problem. But if and when the hammer comes down, the outcome will be very bad for the recipient. When I have discussed this matter and this type of justice with folks from Japan, Korea, and HK, they all think it is fairly reasonable, and they don’t know of anyone personally who was not given a reasonable chance (obviously small sample size, and obviously the system isn’t always reasonable, but the consistency of the answers was surprising to me). All that said, I suspect that some folks from developing countries may reasonably disagree with my assessment of Japan. I haven’t had the chance to speak with specific parts of those communities, so it’s hard to know what the reality is.
- chillacy 6y agoHarassment might though, if the hotel is to be believed in this story.
- JusticeJuice 6y agoThere's a difference between being a dick, and trying to negatively affect a business's revenue with multiple, fabricated negative reviews posted over several weeks. Over the fact you didn't want to pay corkage for bringing in outside alcohol (a pretty normal thing).
- kjs3 6y agoIs that really the level of being a dick that should land you in a foreign prison?
- lostmsu 6y agoI don't see why not. The net damage might be equivalent to stealing significant money.
- ufmace 6y ago"Should" is a dubious word to use here. That's what the law is there, and what you or I think "should" happen isn't relevant.
- visarga 6y agoIt's relevant for other tourists who want to know the level of risk they are subjecting themselves when visiting. The Thai resort really Barbra Streisand'ed this.
- refurb 6y agoThat’s a very Western point of view and not held by much of the world.
- mdoms 6y agoSays who? You, the American? Your values are not universal.
- bdcravens 6y agoPerhaps, but as America has a reputation for putting people in jail for quite a few ridiculous reasons, we should be the last people to pass judgment on other countries' arrest policies.
- smnrchrds 6y agoI feel like if leaving a one-star review of Google Maps can put you in jail in Thailand, it is highly irresponsible and unethical of Google to allow leaving reviews in Thailand. They should remove review feature entirely for Thailand, or disable lower ratings, or show a giant flashing warning explaining what you are risking by leaving the review.
- watwut 6y agoThe issue was not so much rating as content of comment. In particular they took offence over his claim they engaged on modern day slavery. That particular comment was taken down cause it broke site guidelines.
- cnst 6y agoIt's just a figure of speech. What's so gravely offensive about it?
- hiharryhere 6y ago“Modern slavery” isn’t a figure of speech. It has a specific meaning describing worker exploitation. For example the UK has the Modern Slavery Act - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Slavery_Act_2015 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Slavery_Act_2015
- refurb 6y agoContext matters, in this case location. It’s like joking about child prostitution in Cambodia. As an American it’s something that happens in far away lands (not entirely true, it happens in the US too). In Cambodia, it’s a very serious issue that really pisses of locals since it’s mostly Western tourists supporting it there. Joke about it in the US and it’s just frowned upon. Do it in Cambodian and you’ll piss people off enough to get yourself in trouble.
- rsynnott 6y agoI mean, it’s at least arguably an allegation of a crime. I wouldn’t be a fan of criminal libel still existing, but that’s a case where it might be appropriate for the hotel to take a civil libel case, assuming it’s unfounded.
- oh_sigh 6y agoSorry, but Americans are not the worst, no matter what you as the stereotypical self-deprecating American may think. If you asked Thai people who the worst are, they'd probably say Chinese tourists.
- wombatmobile 6y agoWhat if “they” didn’t think stereotypically and instead were open to the idea that individual people might think individually, regardless of race, culture, or nationality?
- unglaublich 6y agoThat would solve so many problems.....
- tuna-piano 6y agoAgreed. But interesting how the "American tourists are the worst!" comment is currently upvoted and the "Nope, actually the Chinese are the worst" is downvoted. Even if you believe it true that a pattern of a grouping of people is more often true than not doesn't mean it's something you should go around proudly stating.
- oh_sigh 6y agoIronically, this is an extremely Western mindset you're what-iffing. And you don't need to rely on stereotypes for a population to have a preference(or viewpoint) on something. If you say pizza is Americans favorite food, because 60% of individuals you ask say pizza is their favorite food, then no stereotype is in play.
- AmericanChopper 6y agoChinese tourists do have quite a reputation for creating a nuisance. But in most of Asia the tourists who have the worst reputation for most outrageous behaviour has to be the Russians and Australians. Russians and Australians going to Asian tourist destinations, getting extremely drunk and starting fights is pretty much a cliche.
- tssva 6y agoForeign travellers in the US can be as bad or worse than US travelers in other countries. Many Europeans, Asians, Africans, South Americans etc do no better job informing themselves of and following local customs in the US than Americans do in their countries.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- dehrmann 6y ago> know the local laws I've been to Singapore. There's the ones everyone knows about like the drug laws, not spitting, littering, or chewing gum. The one people don't mention is that cars also have the right of way over pedestrians, so be extra careful when crossing the street.
- Igelau 6y agoSo it's like Chicago, but clean?
- howlgarnish 6y agoPedestrians have right of way at pedestrian crossings. Cars have right of way elsewhere. https://sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/RTA1961-R24?DocDate=20190131#pr4- https://sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/RTA1961-R24?DocDate=20190131#pr4- This is pretty standard, and Singapore is way safer for pedestrians than virtually any Asian country outside Japan.
- aidenn0 6y agoIn many states of the US, cars are never granted right of way over pedestrians. Instead pedestrians are required to yield the right of way to cars outside of crosswalks. It's an important distinction because it places a legal burden on the driver to attempt to avoid hitting a pedestrian.
- bkor 6y agoPedestrians generally have right of way. Singapore is pretty exceptional in this. Further, loads of Asian countries are pretty poor safety wise. I don't think a comparison to other Asian countries is beneficial. Singapore probably also benefits that owning a car is quite expensive, plus sort of ok public transport (a bus is terribly slow though!). Singapore still heavily favours a car. A public transport ride can be easily 2x-3x the time as a car trip. From your link: > Elderly pedestrians accounted for two-thirds of all pedestrian fatalities. (1 in 2 accidents involving elderly pedestrians was due to jaywalking) Singapore does seem safe in a deaths/100k comparison. There's some EU figures where the best country does about ~20/million (so around ~2.0/100k). Singapore has 2.2/100k. Things such as "jaywalking" is not a thing in loads of countries. Also, the traffic lights are horrendous. You need to wait way too long. See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbVWXzL4-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbVWXzL4-4 for various examples of way quicker lights.
- ergocoder 6y agoI don't know why you brought up "don't be a dick". It's unrelated to the matter at hand. We don't know whether they were a dick or not. Even if they were, they didn't deserve to be jailed. What we know for sure is that they went to jail because of a bad online review. This is like telling a rape victim to not be a dick. Like wtf. Why is it even related? As a Thai, we hope foreigners will help Thailand come up with better consumer protection. Thailand don't protect consumer as much as it should, and that's fucking sad.
- Simon_says 6y ago> learn the local laws I'm local to America, and I can assure you no human being is capable of learning my local laws. How many federal laws are there? No one even knows! http://kowal.com/?q=How-Many-Federal-Laws-Are-There%3F http://kowal.com/?q=How-Many-Federal-Laws-Are-There%3F What hope do I have of learning local laws somewhere else? What hope does a foreigner have in America? The best you can hope for is to get a cheatsheet of some big common differences and then keep a low profile.
- INTPenis 6y agoI'm not surprised. I had some crazy experiences in Thailand. Once the floor dropped out in our bungalow, as I was stepping on it. Sheer luck that I didn't fall through and cut myself open on the exposed building material. Trying to explain this to the owner and they accused us of breaking the floor and wanted to charge for it. Another time we wanted them to order a cab for us but they insisted we use their limo service. This was ludicrous so I just stood my ground and they finally ordered a regular city cab. It can get pretty frustrating communicating with someone who doesn't understand. Also raising your voice and gesticulating in their culture is really frowned upon. Even when you're mad you don't raise your voice or start waving your arms around.
- wombatmobile 6y agoMaybe you didn’t raise your voice loud enough. Try waving your arms a lot faster. Once you reach takeoff velocity you will be surprised how much respect and awe you can command from Thai people. This will also work outside of Thailand.
- MiroF 6y agoThis seems like just classic poorer country trying to milk money out of rich westerner (well minus the floor dropping out that sounds awful)
- altacc 6y agoThe people you’re dealing with and owning these places are not necessarily poor. There are many poor people in Thailand but many very, very wealthy people and you might not be able to recognise which is which. The wealth divide is very big.
- MiroF 6y ago> There are many poor people in Thailand but many very, very wealthy people and you might not be able to recognise which is which. The wealth divide is very big. Of course - this is true of most countries in the global south since the 80/90s.
- truthwhisperer 6y agobarbara streisand effect kicks in: Sea View Koh Chang => google review. Lot of one star recently. Hope they don't visit thailand any soon
- dhruvrrp 6y agoLink to the resort’s response from twitter https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8waPd4H/view?usp=drivesdk https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8w... Seems like a messed up situation and i would like to side with the guest, but given I don’t have a culture frame of reference I wouldn’t be too fast to judge the resort.
- CyberDildonics 6y agoIn what way would you ever rationalize putting someone in prison for a bad review?
- KaoruAoiShiho 6y agoI'm not convinced that defamation laws are absolutely abhorrent. It's possible to ruin someone's life with verbal harassment, especially when given amplified powers via social media.
- CyberDildonics 6y agoThat is a false dichotomy. No one said anything about defamation laws in general and this is a business not a person. They told the police that what he said was untrue and the police came to his work and put him in prison.
- KaoruAoiShiho 6y agoCause of defamation laws? If you're against this isn't the root of it defamation laws?
- CyberDildonics 6y agoIf someone accuses you of speeding and you don't think you should get put in jail for multiple days does that mean you are against speed limits?
- 6y ago
- Eyght 6y agoThis made me curious about how a business can defend itself if a competitor hires people to leave negative reviews.
- gruez 6y agoThe part near the end of the article is confusing. >While this reaction by the hotel does sound excessive I’d give them the benefit of the doubt that this guest behaved like a total idiot while at the property and then turned around with very unflattering descriptions and manufactured truths aka lies about this resort. He then refused to discuss the matter with the hotel and instead of stopping even accelerated his online badmouthing on channels other than TripAdvisor after the first bad review was “managed” away (deleted). >These little islands in Thailand are well known to be essentially run by the local mafia and a lot of people have met their fate at these islands after run in with the locals. In 2014 a British couple was killed on Koh Tao and the crime was later pinned on some illiterate Burmese migrant workers. The two Burmese were initially sentenced to death and just received a Royal pardon, reducing the sentence to life imprisonment. >I’m just noting this in the context of the situation at hand to show that one should consider his behavior and own security while on these islands. He's giving the hotel the benefit of the doubt that it's the guest's fault, but also brings up that the islands are run by the mafia and has a corrupt justice system. What's he trying to say? That even if you're right, you shouldn't write a bad review because the justice system is corrupt and you're going to end up in jail anyways?
- indy 6y ago>What's he trying to say? That even if you're right, you shouldn't write a bad review because the justice system is corrupt and you're going to end up in jail anyways? Yes, even if you're right, you shouldn't write a bad review because the justice system is corrupt.
- vimax 6y agoJust wait until you're home to write the review
- xupybd 6y agoAnd don't go back
- mynegation 6y ago
- TwoNineFive 6y agoThailand is the country where the price made their pet dog a high ranking member of the military. I present to you: Air Chief Marshal Fufu! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fufu_(dog) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fufu_(dog)
- CyberDildonics 6y agoThais have been embarrassed by the prince many times, though his father, the king was generally very respected. I don't think most would want all of thailand to be judged on the prince's antics.
- pmachinery 6y agoTo be fair, Thailand didn't lose a single war under Fufu's watch.
- ThrowawayR2 6y agoWell, as a military commander, a dog would surely have a leg up on any potential adversaries. (arf arf)
- Muromec 6y agoTimely reminder that talking shit about royal family is 15 years in prison out there and that prince is a king nowadays
- PostOnce 6y agoWhen I read this, I wondered how much of the world treats defamation as a criminal rather than a civil matter; here's the answer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Laws_by_jurisdiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Laws_by_jurisdictio... Someone told me the other day something similar happened in Korea over a boy band. Guy got a year in jail for making anti-band postings online? https://www.soompi.com/article/1427494wpp/big-hit-announces-courts-sentence-in-defamation-case-regarding-posts-made-about-bts https://www.soompi.com/article/1427494wpp/big-hit-announces-...
- nacho2sweet 6y agoI mean there are local laws, but there is also the part of Thai islands where they are run by little local mobs. So probably pretty easy to get your friend in the local police to arrest a tourist that is hurting the local businesses. The guy was probably more out of hand then he is letting on. I stayed a beach hostel once in Tonsai where these plain clothes thai's rolled up in a boat (two saying they were local krabi police) and demanded payment for "music licensing" from Thai owners. The owner refused to do the payoff, and the gangsters tried to physically escort him to the boat for "arrest"... the bartender got me to take a photo of them. They demanded I delete the photo and I was like "no you aren't going to mess with tourists" and they let the owner stay. Thai RIAA is brutal!!
- unnouinceput 6y agoDid you actually read the article? It's not a tourist but a teacher that works and lives there.
- sirn 6y agoDisclaimer: IANAL / I'm Thai but not currently living there. I can't comment about the guest vs the hotel, but this one is also filed under Section 14(1) in Thailand's Computer-Related Crime Act in addition to Defamation by advertising, so it is another chapter in a long and ongoing story of Section 14(1) abuse, which says: "Section 14: Whoever commits the following offences shall be liable to an imprisonment [...]: (1) Dishonestly or by deception, entering wholly or partially distorted or false computer data into a computer system in a manner likely to cause damage to the general public; which is not a defamation under the Criminal Code" (unofficial translation) The original intention for this Section was to be used for _phishing and fraud_ (as it was originally based on Budapest Convention), but it is worded so loosely that it applicable to anything deemed "false information" as long as it is not directly a defamation. This is mainly due to the use of word "false information" instead of "forgery" in the Thai version. This Section (and the whole Section 14) has been used by government to suppress any political differences for a long time, and never once actually be used for phishing or fraud as it was intended. It also doesn't help that this Section 14(1) actually has higher fine/jail time than the relevant Criminal Code and cannot be withdrawn, unlike the Criminal Code. Group of lawyers at iLaw[1] has been pushing to amend this Act for a long time, but lawmaker only respond to them by making it worse (to the point that it cannot actually be used for phishing or fraud[2]). Right now the push to amend Section 14(1) kinda stalled, as Thailand has much bigger problem that need to be fixed (including amending the constitution so Army-tied party no longer get automatically elected, of which a signature of 100k Thai people with a hard copy of their National ID card recently been dismissed in favor for "100k" names in Google Forms from the pro-government side). [1]: http://ilaw.or.th/ http://ilaw.or.th/ [2]: http://ilaw.or.th/node/5705 http://ilaw.or.th/node/5705 (in Thai)
- londons_explore 6y agoCommenters here should remember that the idea of online reviews originated in the USA, where there is the general principle of freedom of speech, and the ability to talk about nearly anything. Most of the rest of the world doesnt have free speech, and the American model of online reviews doesn't really translate. These people value "not being talked about behind your back" more than "ability to say anything about anyone". America chose one, while many other places chose the other. For example, in some countries, saying something negative about a company or business can be a crime.
- dutch3000 6y agoKevin?
- microcolonel 6y agoI mean, it's reasonable if it is true defamation. I'm not sure how Thailand's legal system is structured, I think in a lot of places it would be unusual for a defamation case to result in arrest except for contempt of court. Not that I generally have high hopes for Thailand's judicial independence from private and political interests, so who knows.
- mumblerino 6y agoI don’t know why this comment was downvoted. It makes sense and is right.
- intrasight 6y agoAnd that's why we don't spend our travel money in such crappy countries
- techsin101 6y agoexactly speak by spending
- patchtopic 6y agolet us compare this with the case of Vorayuth Yoovidhya and Wichian Klanprasert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Wichian_Klanprasert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Wichian_Klanprasert
- mumblerino 6y agoThe difference is obviously the millions of baht flowing.
- aaron695 6y agoThailand has modern day slavery. It is considered one of the worst locations in the world. To publicly publish an accusation like that against someone is clearly defamation if it's not correct. I think some jail time would be suitable if it's found not to be true. It sounds not true. Should a person be jailed before they are convicted and awaiting trail and have to pay bond? We do for other crimes like personal drug use. This was an attack on another person.
- msla 6y agoPreviously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24605386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24605386
- browserface 6y agoThailand used to be land of smiles, but it seems there's a backlash against tourism, and the Thais are not so happy as once thought, not just tourism but everything.
- eric4smith 6y agoI'm actually in Koh Chang right now and this gave me a chuckle. You have no idea how entitled some "farang" (foreigners) here are and how low of an opinion many of them have of Thailand and the Thai people. Sometimes it's really sickening to see the posts of this certain bloc of expats. They expect the government to just overlook the rules when it comes to immigration, local customs and local laws. Recently because of Covid, the government gave around 60 days notice of them needing to go and get their visa extension and would you know it, most of them waited until the last minute with huge lines to do it. Then they complained that the immigration department was "incompetent" and "this is Thailand for you lol". Generally they are American, Australian or the worse... the guys from the UK. As someone who travels quite a bit in Thailand, the Thai people already bend over backwards to accommodate most of them, but to no avail. Go ahead, start reading posts online from these guys explaining how the Thai government is inept, don't realize how "important farang are" to the country. They want to enter the country without having to go through the quarantine! They are the same guys who approach local girls and ask them "how much" and then spend their days with only other foreigners. They are the guys who only eat "European" food while on their vacation. They are the guys who sit at the bar and drink all day and then go to the walking streets to assume every girl they see is a prosti*ute. They are the guys who make very small attempt to make friends with local Thai people. They are the guys who bring their drunken western ways here and expect the local culture which is very different, to accept it without complaint. So for this guy, I don't know the whole story, but I'm almost sure that he was in the wrong. Believe me, the hotels here don't want any trouble and are EXTREMELY sensitive to online reviews as they can make or break them -- mafia run or not. It takes quite a LOT to make Thai people upset with you, and its clear this guy did it.
- mumblerino 6y agoRegardless of what you said about “those guys,” which is barely relevant to the story, if we are to believe the business owners, they’re right in suing for defamation (the guy left 3 reviews out of spite) However the problem is that the police considers this a good enough reason to jail someone working there legally after picking him up from his workplace. I don’t think that’s fair.
- 6510 6y agoWhat a strange approach? If you bring your own booze into a public place and are stubborn about the western tradition is to beat up the brawler. Its a profession!
- throwawaynothx 6y agoI love how all of the Americans are sticking up for this guy.
- Semaphor 6y agoThe article is missing a second update by the guest: https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1309838923175133185 https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1309838923175133185
- hadlock 6y agoIt's worth noting, for context, that for western audiences, Trip Advisor is the Gold Standard for travel reviews in this area. This is where they left the reviews. Restaurants will give a 5-10% discount on meals if you leave a review. Restaurants, tourist attractions, hotels/hostels etc have big Trip Advisor signs in their windows. A couple of bad reviews could be costly for a business.
- strogonoff 6y agoI’m curious if there will be any repercussions for listings of this hotel (and the inevitable “rebrandings” to follow) on platforms where these reviews were left. I imagine either the listing has to go, or a platform can be sued. I bet none of them show any notice a la “by leaving a bad review you are rolling the dice on some jail time”. (Personally I prefer to leave a good review or none at all, save for extreme cases.)
- pftburger 6y agoAaaand no reference to the Asange Trail? Lemme go ahead and fix that....
- pritovido 6y agoI have traveled to Thailand several times, and once the taxi driver put drugs on my luggage. He was crony with the guard at the airport who was very surprised when he could not find the small cocaine bags the driver has put there(and I had thrown away). In Thailand they take drugs super seriously and they can blackmail you easily this way. On the other hand you see all kind of scumbags from western countries traveling there thinking they could do whatever they please with total disrespect for the locals and the country. Without more data, I bet this is the second case. If the online reviews are false the Hotel is in their right to accuse him of defamation.
- united893 6y agoWait what?! I’ve got so many questions. How exactly does a Taxi driver coordinate with guards? At what point did you discover the scheme? You were nearly blackmailed and just threw away the evidence? How does the Airport guard blackmail you? How goes he expect to get paid? Why go through this and not just blackmail the actual legitimate drug users?
- dstick 6y agoHere's a possible scenario based on the OPs story. Two brothers - one works as a taxi driver, the other as an airport guard. The taxi brother inserts small packs of cocaine in the bags of his passengers. Then texts his airport guard brother a description of the passenger and bag he inserted the drug in. The passenger arrives at the security check and his bag gets pulled out. The airport guard finds the drugs and puts the passenger in a room somewhere in the airport. The passenger now gets an option: pay a nice bribe and board the plane, or don't and spend the night there with the option of landing in a Thai jail. Passenger decides to opt for the bribe (at that point, who wouldn't) - even though they know full well they didn't carry any drugs. The airport guard brother pockets the $XXXX and the passenger hightails it out of there. Scared shitless. Brother and brother meet at a bar later and share their spoils, celebrating with a nice meal and a few too many drinks. Rinse and repeat. Could work with nephews, friends, family - it's probably not that hard.
- 6y ago
- rendall 6y agoI'm going to stand up on a soapbox and use this incident to flog my pet issue, here. It may not be obvious to everyone how it relates, so bear with me. Many people wonder how a "free speech absolutist", such as myself, can hold the point of view that we do: how can we advocate for absolute free speech when it allows anti-vaxxers or bullies or holocaust deniers or racists or fake news purveyors to freely promote their reprehensible views? Many people think we must, on some level agree with these terrible views, or at best be severely misguided, in order to so vociferously actually defend their rights to say it. Not at all. We defend the rights of the least popular, even reprehensible, points of view in order to protect our own right to say and hear ideas with which others may disagree. Remember, many beliefs we hold now, were once illegal: equality of races, marriage between races, that one should worship or not as their own conscience dictates, marriage between same sexes - these were not only illegal - but it was illegal even to advocate for these. In some places even today it is still illegal to express such points of view. We free-speech advocates believe that a good idea is stronger than a bad idea, and as a stronger idea, will win in the marketplace of ideas. Good medical information will always defeat bad information; good moral ideas will always defeat bad moral ideas, and so forth. By legally suppressing the expression of reprehensible ideas, a government is conceding that they believe that these bad ideas are somehow stronger and more convincing than good ideas. Yes, there will always be people who are convinced by a bad idea, but if the expression of the idea is suppressed, no right-thinking person will ever bother to argue against it. And now I get to my point: laws such as this one that criminalize defamation, or those against "blasphemy", or against "profaning the honor of the country", or against spreading lies, or even hate speech, are all the same at the end of the day: they might sound like they are helping society, but they will be used in unexpected ways, as we see here. Often they will be to suppress speech that offends the powerful, as we see here. Moreover, they will chill adjacent speech, that is not necessarily illegal, but since non-lawyers are never really sure where the bounds of the law lie precisely, they will be reluctant to cross even imaginary barriers. Now I'm hopping off my soapbox, and I would love to read your reply especially if you disagree!
- stephenr 6y agoHe was free to post what he wanted. He is now free to enjoy the consequences of his previous speech.
- SoheilPKO 6y agoFunny
- scyllax 6y agoI have been living and working in Thailand for more than a year now, and I never had similar issues in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, etc... I'm sorry for what happned to this guest, and I think that if we travel to a country we should be a litle bit aware of their cultures and respectful to their laws. That said, jail was extreme in this case, and a warning would've been sufficient in my opinion.
- Scapeghost 6y agoThis is a big problem in the UAE too. Any critique of anything that makes the country look less than a perfect paradise may get you fined, jailed and deported. For example, some Swiss journalists were apprehended for taking pictures of the poor condition of laborers in Abu Dhabi. If you try to report a crime, the police will grill you instead (why did you take pictures of the person sitting in the street selling shady goods, why didn't you just ignore the touts offering prostitution) Even the community-run Dubai subreddit self-censors any real criticism of the city as "Dubai bashing" These places are polished turds, with a lot of crap going on behind the scenes that foreigners don't see because of their carefully curated image and marketing.
- Scapeghost 6y ago(and of course, censorship and rug sweeping)
- AYBABTME 6y agoI'm reading many negative experiences of Thailand here, which saddens me. I've been there multiple times, it's a beautiful country that I enjoy very much. There's definitely problems with lousy tourists going there to purchase sex, but aside from that it's a very nice place and I haven't had any issues. This isn't strictly related to the story, but I just wanted to add some alternative point of view to this thread. Caveat: I've traveled to many "less developed" countries so I might be more street-conscious than the average traveller.
- metadatabad 6y agoYou know, treating tourists poorly has very far reaching consequences for Thailand. Before this commotion poeple would possibly only avoid that one particular resort, now people are talking about never visiting Thailand in the future after what has happened to the guy.
- Proven 6y agoGood.
- xfz 6y agoIt sounds like the guy was being a jerk from the start. If so, his behaviour on the day and online should have consequences. However, I have written negative reviews before and been harassed by the company concerned or had them flagged as inappropriate even though I always stick to facts that I could easily prove or opinions that are clearly stated as such. As a result it always concerns me to see companies trying to manage their reviews so tightly. How many other negative reviews resulted in the customer being contacted and persuaded to change them? I'm aware of Thailand's strict laws about political speech and criticising the monarchy. I don't necessarily agree with them, but I will always abide by them as it's not my business to say what Thailand laws should be like. In light of this though, I'll be extra careful what I say when reviewing Thai hotels, and I will be careful to avoid this hotel in particular and continue to avoid hotels that seem to pay a bit too much attention to their Tripadvisor reviews. Hint: you're entitled to reply of course, but it looks a bit creepy if you reply to all of them. In short, if we are to believe both sides of the story, the guy shouldn't have got away with this scot free, but the response seems heavy handed and doesn't exactly cover the hotel with glory.