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I have to agree with the other guy. Going too far into "Don't touch the machine" leads you to ridiculous places. Designing your system to be instrumented is inv

by R0b0t1 6y ago

I have to agree with the other guy. Going too far into "Don't touch the machine" leads you to ridiculous places. Designing your system to be instrumented is invaluable, and sometimes that means logging on to a machine. Should you minimize this? Yes, but not to the point you invest tens of thousands or more into a way to not use SSH.

Aeolun 6y ago
Since we already know you can put a more or less adequate elasticsearch cluster on DO for $60 per month, I don’t think that argument holds a lot of water. By the time you want centralized logs, you are probably already spending much more than the logging will cost on infrastructure.
- majkinetor 6y ago
  ES cluster might be easy to install but doing all other chores with your log, along with learning ES search language and quirks is far from trivial. I personally spent months making viable solution on premise and its not something I want to do again. Way less hassle to access server directly for daily logs and just move them during the night on some archival storage.
hnlmorg 6y ago
Nobody said "you should never log into the machine!" We just said reading log files shouldn't require SSH access. What you're doing here is constructing a straw man argument while agreeing with the same point I was making.
- R0b0t1 6y ago
  Hold up, never log into the machine is exactly what the discussion is about, not logging into machines for log access being one aspect of it.
  - hnlmorg 6y ago
    I'm guessing you skim read most of the replies after the OP? The OP did touch upon it when describing their own architecture (albeit he wasn't actually suggesting that should be how everyone operates) but everything after that has been more narrowly focused. This particular branch of the discussion was specifically discussing log access: > > ship log events out of the box and into something searchable, indexable, and can derive metrics > That's just a way to spend a ton of money. There's really not a reason to ship or index logs...
    - R0b0t1 6y ago
      They're explicitly talking about not logging into machines for log access. One of the ways to make it seem a reasonable suggestion is the broader topic of not logging into machines at all, ever, and why that may be a good thing.
      - hnlmorg 6y ago
        > They're explicitly talking about not logging into machines for log access. That's what I said. ;) > One of the ways to make it seem a reasonable suggestion is the broader topic of not logging into machines at all, ever, and why that may be a good thing. Except none of that was being discussed. Only log access.
        R0b0t1 6y ago
        The conversation involves both.
        hnlmorg 6y ago
        No it doesn't. By your own admission: > They're explicitly talking about not logging into machines for log access. Why can't you just admit that you didn't read the thread properly rather than insulting all of our intelligence with these piss poor mental gymnastics where you redefine the context of what people had very clearly written.

by R0b0t1 6y ago

Aeolun 6y ago

Since we already know you can put a more or less adequate elasticsearch cluster on DO for $60 per month, I don’t think that argument holds a lot of water. By the time you want centralized logs, you are probably already spending much more than the logging will cost on infrastructure.

majkinetor 6y ago
ES cluster might be easy to install but doing all other chores with your log, along with learning ES search language and quirks is far from trivial. I personally spent months making viable solution on premise and its not something I want to do again. Way less hassle to access server directly for daily logs and just move them during the night on some archival storage.

hnlmorg 6y ago

Nobody said "you should never log into the machine!" We just said reading log files shouldn't require SSH access. What you're doing here is constructing a straw man argument while agreeing with the same point I was making.

R0b0t1 6y ago
Hold up, never log into the machine is exactly what the discussion is about, not logging into machines for log access being one aspect of it.
- hnlmorg 6y ago
  I'm guessing you skim read most of the replies after the OP? The OP did touch upon it when describing their own architecture (albeit he wasn't actually suggesting that should be how everyone operates) but everything after that has been more narrowly focused. This particular branch of the discussion was specifically discussing log access: > > ship log events out of the box and into something searchable, indexable, and can derive metrics > That's just a way to spend a ton of money. There's really not a reason to ship or index logs...
  - R0b0t1 6y ago
    They're explicitly talking about not logging into machines for log access. One of the ways to make it seem a reasonable suggestion is the broader topic of not logging into machines at all, ever, and why that may be a good thing.
    - hnlmorg 6y ago
      > They're explicitly talking about not logging into machines for log access. That's what I said. ;) > One of the ways to make it seem a reasonable suggestion is the broader topic of not logging into machines at all, ever, and why that may be a good thing. Except none of that was being discussed. Only log access.
      - R0b0t1 6y ago
        The conversation involves both.
        hnlmorg 6y ago
        No it doesn't. By your own admission: > They're explicitly talking about not logging into machines for log access. Why can't you just admit that you didn't read the thread properly rather than insulting all of our intelligence with these piss poor mental gymnastics where you redefine the context of what people had very clearly written.