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Worth noting for the record that Brendan Eich didn’t exactly get cancelled either. Yes he was pushed out of Mozilla but he found community success and support w

Worth noting for the record that Brendan Eich didn’t exactly get cancelled either. Yes he was pushed out of Mozilla but he found community success and support when founding the Brave browser[0], by all accounts nobody seems to be holding it against Brave for his actions [0] https://brave.com/about/ https://brave.com/about/

hitekker 6y ago
> Brendan Eich didn't exactly get canceled. Brendan Eich disagrees. https://twitter.com/brendaneich/status/1217512049716035584?lang=en https://twitter.com/brendaneich/status/1217512049716035584?l... "In 2014-15, I could not get funding or a job, went outside valley to found Brave, took big pay cut & still-substantial long-term risk."
- Frondo 6y ago
  Frankly speaking, it'd be a better argument that he was "canceled" if he hadn't gotten funding at all. If this is what "being canceled" means, that your browser (I.e. commodity software in a mature marketplace where everyone gives it away for free) still gets funded then maybe it's not actually a meaningful harm to begin with.
  - BrendanEich 6y ago
    I suggest "no effects at all" and "canceled for life, now dead or on welfare" is a false dichotomy. Obviously I had to rebuild a company and codebase rather than build on Firefox. Mozilla's loss, now.
    - no_wizard 6y ago
      Question is now, to be poignant, is to what you learned from the experience and what your regrets are.
      - BrendanEich 6y ago
        I can't comment on anything about Mozilla covered by NDAs. The rest will have to await my memoirs.
      - hitekker 6y ago
        Actually, the question is if you knew that Brendan Eich was harmed before you claimed he wasn't harmed at all. Pretending the victim wasn't harmed and then asking him "what he learned" and "what his regrets are" is pretty malicious.
        no_wizard 6y ago
        I take issue with this. Reading my question back, it wasn't intended to be malicious (short and to the point is what I was going for). Broken down, its like this: I'm asking what he learned: What was the take away form the situation? Is there something of value from what happened that can be shared that is worthwhile? If it comes across as implied as anything else, then I did a poor job at framing, but the question in the literal is asking nothing more than that. My second question is simply, do you regret the experience? Do you have regrets surrounding the situation? An answer of "I don't regret anything about that situation" is another way to answer the same question. I wasn't setting a trap, I was hoping to use the fact the person in question was actually commenting to get more information about the experience from a different source. I don't think that's unreasonable at all. I'm doing my absolute best to leave my own personal feelings out of it as well, which is why I used the words I did, actually, I felt they were far more along the lines of matter of fact than anything else. Granted, I will concede we lose some of the human element in all this when talking over a text forum, so maybe this isn't obvious to others, however the questions were meant to elicit an honest response, not a defensive one. Edit: I'll go on the record (now seeing I got an answer) I think this narrative about "cancellation culture" is somewhat ridiculous. Its just an outgrowth of everyone being outraged in public forums now (Twitter, Facebook etc). Inevitable and very human, since any form of mass media was widely consumed (Tim Wu wrote a great book about mass media called The Master Switch which covers this very well). I don't think its a "problem" like some people make it out to be. Secondly no, I don't think he was harmed, Brave is a successful product, and having to go outside the valley to raise money isn't "canceling" somebody. You still have a business, you still are CEO of that business, and its a successful business. In fact, I know since all this with Mozilla he's been interviewed in positive lights for Brave specifically. This isn't exactly following the guys career. I know I'll likely take some flak for this, but I also don't disagree with what happened either. Actions have consequences, and the more publicly visible you are the more severe those consequences will be. A CEO that doesn't stand for the companies public values and missions isn't going to be kept on as CEO. In Mozilla's case, social equality is important enough that it affects the boardroom.
    - no_wizard 6y ago
      I just want to be clear I hold nothing untoward against you or anything like that. I have my 10000 foot view of corporate politics and such, and we may not well align there, but I don’t want this to be taken as something untoward. I rather appreciate that you read and responded to my comment and I don’t want any thing to come across as untoward
      - lilSebastian 6y ago
        Too late, you've already been cancelled.
    - Frondo 6y ago
      So you faced what seems like an ultimately mild consequence for a publicly-held and socially unpopular position. And this is the cancel culture we're all supposed to be worried about, really? What would have been, in your estimation, the appropriate consequence for working to deny marriage rights to gay people in California? Please don't say "nothing," i.e. no consequence.
- monadic2 6y ago
  On on hand you're right that this is "real" cancellation but you're doing a terrible job at showing that this is some kind of undue, non-deserved pain. Being unemployed for part of two years with savings strikes me as something most humans can weather without permanent trauma.
  - jimbokun 6y ago
    Humans can also weather having to exist in the same world with people who believe different things than they do, too.
    - bradlys 6y ago
      Yeah... I think when your beliefs are then saying that other people in society should be treated as lesser and then you push money to enable those beliefs, it crosses a line. If people just thought stupid shit but didn’t act or vote or spend money on it, it’d not be of consequence. Problem is, few people do that. They want their beliefs to be implemented. If they think gays aren’t worthy of being treated as equals then they’re probably gonna act on it.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      Which was rather the point regards the reaction to Eich, who sought to put force of law behind his differences in belief.
skocznymroczny 6y ago
Because Brave is a very niche browser still. As soon as it gets popular, people will start to remember.

hitekker 6y ago

> Brendan Eich didn't exactly get canceled. Brendan Eich disagrees. https://twitter.com/brendaneich/status/1217512049716035584?lang=en https://twitter.com/brendaneich/status/1217512049716035584?l... "In 2014-15, I could not get funding or a job, went outside valley to found Brave, took big pay cut & still-substantial long-term risk."

Frondo 6y ago
Frankly speaking, it'd be a better argument that he was "canceled" if he hadn't gotten funding at all. If this is what "being canceled" means, that your browser (I.e. commodity software in a mature marketplace where everyone gives it away for free) still gets funded then maybe it's not actually a meaningful harm to begin with.
- BrendanEich 6y ago
  I suggest "no effects at all" and "canceled for life, now dead or on welfare" is a false dichotomy. Obviously I had to rebuild a company and codebase rather than build on Firefox. Mozilla's loss, now.
  - no_wizard 6y ago
    Question is now, to be poignant, is to what you learned from the experience and what your regrets are.
    - BrendanEich 6y ago
      I can't comment on anything about Mozilla covered by NDAs. The rest will have to await my memoirs.
    - hitekker 6y ago
      Actually, the question is if you knew that Brendan Eich was harmed before you claimed he wasn't harmed at all. Pretending the victim wasn't harmed and then asking him "what he learned" and "what his regrets are" is pretty malicious.
      - no_wizard 6y ago
        I take issue with this. Reading my question back, it wasn't intended to be malicious (short and to the point is what I was going for). Broken down, its like this: I'm asking what he learned: What was the take away form the situation? Is there something of value from what happened that can be shared that is worthwhile? If it comes across as implied as anything else, then I did a poor job at framing, but the question in the literal is asking nothing more than that. My second question is simply, do you regret the experience? Do you have regrets surrounding the situation? An answer of "I don't regret anything about that situation" is another way to answer the same question. I wasn't setting a trap, I was hoping to use the fact the person in question was actually commenting to get more information about the experience from a different source. I don't think that's unreasonable at all. I'm doing my absolute best to leave my own personal feelings out of it as well, which is why I used the words I did, actually, I felt they were far more along the lines of matter of fact than anything else. Granted, I will concede we lose some of the human element in all this when talking over a text forum, so maybe this isn't obvious to others, however the questions were meant to elicit an honest response, not a defensive one. Edit: I'll go on the record (now seeing I got an answer) I think this narrative about "cancellation culture" is somewhat ridiculous. Its just an outgrowth of everyone being outraged in public forums now (Twitter, Facebook etc). Inevitable and very human, since any form of mass media was widely consumed (Tim Wu wrote a great book about mass media called The Master Switch which covers this very well). I don't think its a "problem" like some people make it out to be. Secondly no, I don't think he was harmed, Brave is a successful product, and having to go outside the valley to raise money isn't "canceling" somebody. You still have a business, you still are CEO of that business, and its a successful business. In fact, I know since all this with Mozilla he's been interviewed in positive lights for Brave specifically. This isn't exactly following the guys career. I know I'll likely take some flak for this, but I also don't disagree with what happened either. Actions have consequences, and the more publicly visible you are the more severe those consequences will be. A CEO that doesn't stand for the companies public values and missions isn't going to be kept on as CEO. In Mozilla's case, social equality is important enough that it affects the boardroom.
  - no_wizard 6y ago
    I just want to be clear I hold nothing untoward against you or anything like that. I have my 10000 foot view of corporate politics and such, and we may not well align there, but I don’t want this to be taken as something untoward. I rather appreciate that you read and responded to my comment and I don’t want any thing to come across as untoward
    - lilSebastian 6y ago
      Too late, you've already been cancelled.
  - Frondo 6y ago
    So you faced what seems like an ultimately mild consequence for a publicly-held and socially unpopular position. And this is the cancel culture we're all supposed to be worried about, really? What would have been, in your estimation, the appropriate consequence for working to deny marriage rights to gay people in California? Please don't say "nothing," i.e. no consequence.
monadic2 6y ago
On on hand you're right that this is "real" cancellation but you're doing a terrible job at showing that this is some kind of undue, non-deserved pain. Being unemployed for part of two years with savings strikes me as something most humans can weather without permanent trauma.
- jimbokun 6y ago
  Humans can also weather having to exist in the same world with people who believe different things than they do, too.
  - bradlys 6y ago
    Yeah... I think when your beliefs are then saying that other people in society should be treated as lesser and then you push money to enable those beliefs, it crosses a line. If people just thought stupid shit but didn’t act or vote or spend money on it, it’d not be of consequence. Problem is, few people do that. They want their beliefs to be implemented. If they think gays aren’t worthy of being treated as equals then they’re probably gonna act on it.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Which was rather the point regards the reaction to Eich, who sought to put force of law behind his differences in belief.

skocznymroczny 6y ago

Because Brave is a very niche browser still. As soon as it gets popular, people will start to remember.