8 ms·

Mr. Wenig and Mr. Wymer have no such worries. In June, Mr. Wenig was re-elected to the board of General Motors, a position that pays $317,000 a year. Mary Barra

• marcinzm 6y ago
  Cancellation culture exists because this is the expected norm for those in power. A slap on the wrist at worst while being protected by their powerful friends and expensive lawyers. Most likely they'll also destroy the lives of anyone who tries to get justice (blacklisting, smear campaigns, lawsuits, etc.). So you get a mob together where no one person is an easy target for having their life destroyed and ignore the justice system which can be easily bent with money/connections. It's a logical response to the power structure in place.
  • Waterluvian 6y ago
    I honestly hadn’t considered that before: cancel culture is an overreaction to an under reaction. I guess that’s just kind of what we do when we wield our protest powers. I wonder if a sensible measured reaction would be met more openly (although maybe not even possible to do).
    • marcinzm 6y ago
      As I see it, measured reactions against power structures get squashed. Maybe you get a token appeasement that actually changes nothing. It's just too easy for those in power to make it go away so they logically go that route. Going overboard is the only way to force a reaction other than suppression (not guaranteed of course, you might just get massive suppression instead).
      • colejohnson66 6y ago
        A good example of this is unionization. If a decent chunk of employees are upset about things, but you don’t do anything to alleviate it, they’re more likely to want to unionize so they can force the hand of their employer.
      • Waterluvian 6y ago
        Intuitively I think you’re right. But I also think the side effect of overreaction is that those who disagree can very easily point at it to dismiss the cause’s legitimacy. “Can’t take them seriously at all. They want to cancel everyone and defund everything.”
        • marcinzm 6y ago
          True but you generally get to this point where all other lesser options have failed. People are lazy and won't put the effort into mob justice if they see an easier approach. There have been decades of previous issues that simply were swept under the rug. I also don't think public opinion matters when it comes to mob justice. It's background noise. The conversation is between the mob and those in power. If the mob frightens them enough then changes will be made. What those outside the mob think is irrelevant unless they care enough to form their own mob.
          • Waterluvian 6y ago
            I hear you. I wonder though if the amount that the mob frightens the power is affected by public opinion. Especially when it involves politicians.
    • ghaff 6y ago
      And it's largely random. Someone's ill-considered tweet or even post on an internal company email list or political donations or etc. ends up going viral, they get fired, and the whatever will be at the top of Google searches for possibly the rest of their life.
    • 75dvtwin 6y ago
      I would think of the economic persecution of individuals as powerful weapon. just like with any weapon: - some will call it 'great equalizer'. Meaning that a victim no matter how small and physically weak, can still fight off a number of aggressors - some will call it a tool of death making, that belongs to the hands of military (in the case of cancel culture, it would be equivalent to saying that this tool belongs government ) Point is, just like usage of any weapon, the morality and legality of economic persecution depends on: - what / who is it used for - amount of collateral damage - who used it - were there other means, was it legal - the manipulative power of the legal team defending the use One thing we can sure of, any new weapon gets adapted by all sides of a conflict. The case of misuse of this weapon, in my view, was against Brendan Eich [1] [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2014/04/05/backlash-against-brendan-eich-crossed-a-line/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2014/04/05/backlash...
      • ghaff 6y ago
        You also had the bidirectional mess at PyCon a number of years back. One problem is that what is going to completely blow up is at least somewhat unpredictable. And, especially if an individual is low level/status (unlike Eich), many companies are going to take the path of least resistance and "kill them all and let God sort them out" so to speak. Which of course given that "blow up" is pretty much defined by social media footprint means that they'll also have whatever happened probably dog them is search results for a long time.
  • gruez 6y ago
    But who's getting canceled under cancel culture? The people "in power"[1], or rank and file employees? From a unscientific sampling of cancellations[2], it doesn't seem many people in power are being canceled. The only one I can think of is Brendan Eich, but even then I doubt he has powerful connections. If this is the case, it doesn't seem like cancel culture is achieving its objective of punishing people who previously couldn't be punished. [1] The parent comment mentioned "being protected by their powerful friends and expensive lawyers", so I wouldn't consider someone to be "in power" just because they're high on the totem pole within a small organization. [2] https://twitter.com/SoOppressed/status/1282404647160942598 https://twitter.com/SoOppressed/status/1282404647160942598
    • krapp 6y ago
      Celebrities, CEOs and politicians have also been cancelled, if that counts.
      • gruez 6y ago
        Can you provide some examples?
        • toyg 6y ago
          Louis CK.
      • echelon 6y ago
        https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pajiba.com/AMP/celebrities_are_better_than_you/an-incomplete-list-of-all-of-the-celebrities-canceled-in-2020-so-far.php https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pajiba.com/AMP/celebrities_... Side note: JFC I hate Google Amp. I'm preserving the link out of disgust.
    • auganov 6y ago
      It's like hacking. Most hackers won't be able to hack a specific target. But with a wide enough net they will get some hits. And the hits are usually due to the victim doing something really stupid rather than the hacker's ability. So you'd expect you'll mostly see nobodies get hacked.
  • TeeMassive 6y ago
    > Cancellation culture exists because this is the expected norm for those in power. The problem with that line of thinking is how "those in power" is defined more and more broadly and has now evolved to a point where who you are is more important than what you did. So now most people who gets cancelled do not tend to be the Harvey Weinstein but one of those "racist Karens" videos where the context have been cut off and the people are obviously in the early onset of dementia or college kids making offensive jokes on Twitter. > So you get a mob together where no one person is an easy target for having their life destroyed and ignore the justice system which can be easily bent with money/connections. This is double edged knife since mobs and thugs can be bought too. There is a reason why all modern nations give the state the legal monopoly on violence. > It's a logical response to the power structure in place. Correction, it is an emotional response. Mobs are never "logical".
• sonicggg 6y ago
  They had the chance to defend themselves after the case became public. What did they do? Had their trails tucked between their legs and went to hide. It's a shame only these pawns were charged.
  • mcguire 6y ago
    That is arguably the best approach, especially if they think there is no usable defense. The storm always passes.
• leetcrew 6y ago
  when cancel culture first became a thing, I too found it very worrying. surely there is a better way of accomplishing these goals, I thought. eventually, I came to the conclusion that this is probably the best way for these people to express their frustration. it's basically just a boycott. the only reason it has any real power is because a bunch of people are getting together and threatening to vote with their wallet. they are using the tools provided by capitalism the way they are meant to be used. I might not always like the outcome, but of the available options, this is probably my favorite technique for forcing organizations to make changes. when people are this upset, the alternatives are much worse: enforcement action from the government, civil unrest, direct violence, etc. if you still believe in the values of liberalism, you have to consider methods and goals separately. while I might not always agree with the goals, I can't really fault the method. even if you do think cancel culture is terrible, how would you stop it? you can't make it illegal for people to take their business elsewhere.
  • ssklash 6y ago
    Absolutely this. Any single instance of cancel culture is an individual exercising their right to free speech and association, as well as the so frequently touted primary method of individuals to voice their opinion within capitalism, voting with one's wallet. Somehow when many people all with the same opinion do it in concert it becomes cancel culture. Both sides of the political divide do it, and both seem to have a problem with it only when the other side does it. Decrying a fundamental mechanism of democratic speech because it goes against what you agree with seems to me rather undemocratic. And I think the view that it is disliked by those in power as it gives normal people an unusually powerful weapon is spot on.
  • jimbokun 6y ago
    I think your mistake is assuming “cancellation” is only applied to the rich and powerful, but it has become used more and more against non public persons, who often have not even done what they are accused of, or at the very least the accusations against them are greatly exaggerated.
• ideals 6y ago
  Mr. Wymer has a new job, as the chief executive of the Boys & Girls Clubs of Silicon Valley Let's see who else is on that board... Eddie Garcia - Chief of Police - San Jose Police Department
• DanBC 6y ago
  In the UK executive directors and non-executive directors of NHS Trusts need to be "fit and proper persons". There's a rough guide to what that means here: https://nhsproviders.org/fit-and-proper-persons-regulations-in-the-nhs/the-fit-and-proper-persons-regulations https://nhsproviders.org/fit-and-proper-persons-regulations-... In my opinion, companies need to start being more selective about who they appoint. Directors will say they need to be paid so much because they bare a huge amount of responsibility, so it seems fair enough to remove that responsibility for poor behaviours.
  • cafard 6y ago
    My recollection is that be declared unfit and improper had very little effect on Robert Maxwell.
• brown9-2 6y ago
  I’m perplexed at this reaction to the story - that the biggest takeaway is that the executives who sponsored this harrassment by the “security team” should not be tainted by the scandal as long as the legal system did not punish them.
• jimbokun 6y ago
  I generally think of “cancellation” referring to punishing someone for an unpopular opinion. In this case, if the emails The NY Times really exist, there was a conspiracy to commit a long series of crimes to harass critics of EBay. If for some legal technicality these men cannot be prosecuted, a socially enforced penalty seems appropriate.