7 ms·

Debian 10.6

143 points by TimWolla 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
siwatanejo 6y ago
How is the migration to GitLab going? I still see people filing bugs via email...
- TimWolla 6y ago
  Is it planned to move issue tracking to Salsa? I enjoy filing bugs via email, because that does not require me to create an account and I need email notifications to become aware of updates anyway.
  - 6c696e7578 6y ago
    I think gitlab has a few email gateways. You can send patches to salsa if you create an account first. To be quite honest, at least this way spam goes down a bit. For the maintainers, they can filter things when it arrives this way. As a productivity tool, gitlab is great.
    - vbezhenar 6y ago
      Does it force people who want to submit bug, to accept any additional license agreements?
      - 6c696e7578 6y ago
        I would imagine that happens for the patch to become a PR, give it a try.
- gspr 6y ago
  The GitLab migration was never about changing how bugs are reported. The bug tracker is still The Place for bugs. Salsa (the name of the GitLab instance) is just voluntary infrastructure for git, replacing the previous (also voluntary to use) Alioth service. There are some attached hooks that automate some Salsa-BTS interactions. For example, making a commit that references closing a bug will automatically send a message to the BTS letting the reporter and others know that a fix has been committed. The bug will actually close only when the new package version is in the archive (the archive is still fully git-oblivious). That said, the Salsa migration is complete, and Alioth is no more.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - siwatanejo 6y ago
    Great thanks for the info!
TekMol 6y ago
What does this mean if you run a Debian server? Will "apt update && apt upgrade" update to 10.6 or do you need to put out a heavier gun?
- edoceo 6y ago
  That should do it
- hyper_reality 6y ago
  Yes, that will work. As part of running `apt upgrade`, the package base-files will get upgraded from 10.3+deb10u5 to 10.3+deb10u6 which will update /etc/debian_version to say 10.6 instead of 10.5.
- 6c696e7578 6y ago
  Should do it, I like to include a dist-upgrade at the end to do additional tidying if dependencies have changed dramatically.
  - ufo 6y ago
    Is there a difference between doing "apt upgrade" followed by "apt dist-upgrade" vs only doing "apt dist-upgrade"?
    - 6c696e7578 6y ago
      The man page is many times better than me at explaining it: upgrade upgrade is used to install the newest versions of all packages currently installed on the system from the sources enumerated in /etc/apt/sources.list. Packages currently installed with new versions available are retrieved and upgraded; under no circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages not already installed retrieved and installed. New versions of currently installed packages that cannot be upgraded without changing the install status of another package will be left at their current version. An update must be performed first so that apt-get knows that new versions of packages are available. dist-upgrade dist-upgrade in addition to performing the function of upgrade, also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the expense of less important ones if necessary. The dist-upgrade command may therefore remove some packages. The /etc/apt/sources.list file contains a list of locations from which to retrieve desired package files. See also apt_preferences(5) for a mechanism for overriding the general settings for individual packages.
fctorial 6y ago
Why is this on hacker news? It's a monthly minor release.
- Denvercoder9 6y ago
  It's not exactly monthly, but yeah, not much significance to it.
- rubatuga 6y ago
  Because people enjoy upvoting it.
teddyh 6y ago
Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now indicate a point release. Basically, only security updates and major bug fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 10.6, is not a new major release of Debian. Historical context: It wasn’t always like this; Debian 3.1 was a major release after Debian 3.0, and Debian 6.0 had minor releases up to 6.0.10. This did not change until Debian 7 (which was called 7, not 7.0, and had a minor release numbered 7.1). Therefore, many people might still assume that an increase of the first minor version number is a major release, even though it is not true anymore.
amelius 6y ago
What platforms does this run on? (It doesn't even say on the "About Debian" page)
- Denvercoder9 6y ago
  amd64 (x86_64), AArch64 (arm64), armel, armhf, i386 (x86), mips, mipsel (little endian mips), mips64, powerpc, s390x.
  - amelius 6y ago
    It's a bit more complicated than that. For example, does it run on an NVidia AGX Xavier [1], which has an ARM 64-bit cpu? Would you be able to access the GPU? [1] https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-agx-xavier-developer-kit https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-agx-xavier-deve...
    - zamadatix 6y ago
      That's up to Nvidia to tell you not Debian. Debian supports running on any of the above platforms assuming the hardware OEM supports running generic Linux installs. For that board in particular only Ubuntu 18.04 with proprietary kernel modules is officially supported, you can generally upgrade without too much issue though. It also uses Nvidia specific apt repositories.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - my123 6y ago
        Debian works too. (and Fedora with adding NVIDIA drivers isn't too hard either, did it before)
- encom 6y ago
  https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/compatibility.en.html#arches https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/compatibility....
snarfy 6y ago
I should probably switch back to Debian. I switched to Ubuntu back in the day because it was Debian + more stuff. Now it's Debian + more stuff I don't want.
- throwaway8941 6y ago
  Don't you worry, it'll all be deprecated and removed in a release or two.
  - Aloha 6y ago
    and replaced by more stuff I dont want. At least with Ubuntu/Debian there is documentation, and the software feels 'complete' - the CentOS systems I work on feel like working/living in a half finished house by comparison.
- qz2 6y ago
  Oh it's worse now. No one tests anything against Debian any more and assumes that Ubuntu is the one true Linux. That makes things like Kubernetes have some extra annoying hoops to jump through. The whole Linux ecosystem is like trying to work with mixed windows 95 and NT environments was in 1998 now as far as portability goes. Mostly it works, but sometimes it really screws you hard.
  - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
    > No one tests anything against Debian any more and assumes this is absolutely not true. All packages that are available in Debian have a release process, and there is a test bed. there is also the dh_auto_test part of debhelper which becomes increasingly relevant for accepting packages into the debian release process. So if anything the opposite of your claim is true.
    - qz2 6y ago
      Yes I’m talking about third party packages, software and repositories. The contents of the default Debian repositories are excellent, but usually quite old.
xvilka 6y ago
Problem with Debian that by the time of the release all packages are heavily outdated. Ubuntu is even worse - they can't even patch multiple vulnerabilities, see, for example, radare2 package[1]. Everything that is required just a simple version bump. It's often not a problem for other distributions like Fedora, Arch, Gentoo, etc. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/radare2/+bug/1882889 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/radare2/+bug/18828...
- hyper_reality 6y ago
  This is a misunderstanding of the purpose of Debian, which comes in several flavours: Stable, Testing, and Unstable. Stable does indeed "lock" older versions of packages, but this comes with the enormous benefit of reducing maintenance caused by bugs, regressions and incompatabilities that occur in newer releases. Only security updates are released, but there are also methods for installing newer versions of packages if you like, which is exactly what I want from a server operating system. If you are looking for more of a Fedora or Arch-like experience on desktop, then you could investigate Debian Testing or Unstable. As for the radare2 security issues, it appears that the package is part of the Ubuntu universe or community repository, and has been abandoned by its maintainer. It won't receive any official support from Canonical. It's probably a bad thing that Ubuntu allows this in a way that's not super clear to the end-user, however the best solution would be for somebody to step up to the role of maintaining the package, or for it to get removed from the universe repository altogether.
  - yyyk 6y ago
    Debian-Testing is the worst of both worlds. It doesn't get updated as frequently as -unstable and doesn't get security fixes in time like -stable. e.g. firefox-esr was on 68.11.0 for two months until in the last few days it finally switched to 72.3.0. So users were running a vulnerable version all that time [i.e. they never got even 68.12.0]. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr
    - kelnos 6y ago
guerby 6y ago
At work: # apt-get update ... Reading package lists... Done N: Repository 'http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian buster InRelease' changed its 'Version' value from '10.5' to '10.6'
catherd 6y ago
Does anyone else find the "recent" files section in the Debian 10 (XFCE) file selection dialogs to be significantly less useful than in previous Debian releases? Recently created files just... don't show up. This is a hard one to do an internet search for, and saves a surprising amount of time for some workflows if it works consistently. 1000 internet points to anyone who knows how to make it work as well as it did previously.

Debian 10.6

143 points by TimWolla 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

siwatanejo 6y ago

How is the migration to GitLab going? I still see people filing bugs via email...

TimWolla 6y ago
Is it planned to move issue tracking to Salsa? I enjoy filing bugs via email, because that does not require me to create an account and I need email notifications to become aware of updates anyway.
- 6c696e7578 6y ago
  I think gitlab has a few email gateways. You can send patches to salsa if you create an account first. To be quite honest, at least this way spam goes down a bit. For the maintainers, they can filter things when it arrives this way. As a productivity tool, gitlab is great.
  - vbezhenar 6y ago
    Does it force people who want to submit bug, to accept any additional license agreements?
    - 6c696e7578 6y ago
      I would imagine that happens for the patch to become a PR, give it a try.
gspr 6y ago
The GitLab migration was never about changing how bugs are reported. The bug tracker is still The Place for bugs. Salsa (the name of the GitLab instance) is just voluntary infrastructure for git, replacing the previous (also voluntary to use) Alioth service. There are some attached hooks that automate some Salsa-BTS interactions. For example, making a commit that references closing a bug will automatically send a message to the BTS letting the reporter and others know that a fix has been committed. The bug will actually close only when the new package version is in the archive (the archive is still fully git-oblivious). That said, the Salsa migration is complete, and Alioth is no more.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- siwatanejo 6y ago
  Great thanks for the info!

TekMol 6y ago

What does this mean if you run a Debian server? Will "apt update && apt upgrade" update to 10.6 or do you need to put out a heavier gun?

edoceo 6y ago
That should do it
hyper_reality 6y ago
Yes, that will work. As part of running `apt upgrade`, the package base-files will get upgraded from 10.3+deb10u5 to 10.3+deb10u6 which will update /etc/debian_version to say 10.6 instead of 10.5.
6c696e7578 6y ago
Should do it, I like to include a dist-upgrade at the end to do additional tidying if dependencies have changed dramatically.
- ufo 6y ago
  Is there a difference between doing "apt upgrade" followed by "apt dist-upgrade" vs only doing "apt dist-upgrade"?
  - 6c696e7578 6y ago
    The man page is many times better than me at explaining it: upgrade upgrade is used to install the newest versions of all packages currently installed on the system from the sources enumerated in /etc/apt/sources.list. Packages currently installed with new versions available are retrieved and upgraded; under no circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages not already installed retrieved and installed. New versions of currently installed packages that cannot be upgraded without changing the install status of another package will be left at their current version. An update must be performed first so that apt-get knows that new versions of packages are available. dist-upgrade dist-upgrade in addition to performing the function of upgrade, also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the expense of less important ones if necessary. The dist-upgrade command may therefore remove some packages. The /etc/apt/sources.list file contains a list of locations from which to retrieve desired package files. See also apt_preferences(5) for a mechanism for overriding the general settings for individual packages.

fctorial 6y ago

Why is this on hacker news? It's a monthly minor release.

Denvercoder9 6y ago
It's not exactly monthly, but yeah, not much significance to it.
rubatuga 6y ago
Because people enjoy upvoting it.

teddyh 6y ago

Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now indicate a point release. Basically, only security updates and major bug fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 10.6, is not a new major release of Debian. Historical context: It wasn’t always like this; Debian 3.1 was a major release after Debian 3.0, and Debian 6.0 had minor releases up to 6.0.10. This did not change until Debian 7 (which was called 7, not 7.0, and had a minor release numbered 7.1). Therefore, many people might still assume that an increase of the first minor version number is a major release, even though it is not true anymore.

amelius 6y ago

What platforms does this run on? (It doesn't even say on the "About Debian" page)

Denvercoder9 6y ago
amd64 (x86_64), AArch64 (arm64), armel, armhf, i386 (x86), mips, mipsel (little endian mips), mips64, powerpc, s390x.
- amelius 6y ago
  It's a bit more complicated than that. For example, does it run on an NVidia AGX Xavier [1], which has an ARM 64-bit cpu? Would you be able to access the GPU? [1] https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-agx-xavier-developer-kit https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-agx-xavier-deve...
  - zamadatix 6y ago
    That's up to Nvidia to tell you not Debian. Debian supports running on any of the above platforms assuming the hardware OEM supports running generic Linux installs. For that board in particular only Ubuntu 18.04 with proprietary kernel modules is officially supported, you can generally upgrade without too much issue though. It also uses Nvidia specific apt repositories.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - my123 6y ago
      Debian works too. (and Fedora with adding NVIDIA drivers isn't too hard either, did it before)
encom 6y ago
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/compatibility.en.html#arches https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/compatibility....

snarfy 6y ago

I should probably switch back to Debian. I switched to Ubuntu back in the day because it was Debian + more stuff. Now it's Debian + more stuff I don't want.

throwaway8941 6y ago
Don't you worry, it'll all be deprecated and removed in a release or two.
- Aloha 6y ago
  and replaced by more stuff I dont want. At least with Ubuntu/Debian there is documentation, and the software feels 'complete' - the CentOS systems I work on feel like working/living in a half finished house by comparison.
qz2 6y ago
Oh it's worse now. No one tests anything against Debian any more and assumes that Ubuntu is the one true Linux. That makes things like Kubernetes have some extra annoying hoops to jump through. The whole Linux ecosystem is like trying to work with mixed windows 95 and NT environments was in 1998 now as far as portability goes. Mostly it works, but sometimes it really screws you hard.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  > No one tests anything against Debian any more and assumes this is absolutely not true. All packages that are available in Debian have a release process, and there is a test bed. there is also the dh_auto_test part of debhelper which becomes increasingly relevant for accepting packages into the debian release process. So if anything the opposite of your claim is true.
  - qz2 6y ago
    Yes I’m talking about third party packages, software and repositories. The contents of the default Debian repositories are excellent, but usually quite old.

xvilka 6y ago

Problem with Debian that by the time of the release all packages are heavily outdated. Ubuntu is even worse - they can't even patch multiple vulnerabilities, see, for example, radare2 package[1]. Everything that is required just a simple version bump. It's often not a problem for other distributions like Fedora, Arch, Gentoo, etc. [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/radare2/+bug/1882889 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/radare2/+bug/18828...

hyper_reality 6y ago
This is a misunderstanding of the purpose of Debian, which comes in several flavours: Stable, Testing, and Unstable. Stable does indeed "lock" older versions of packages, but this comes with the enormous benefit of reducing maintenance caused by bugs, regressions and incompatabilities that occur in newer releases. Only security updates are released, but there are also methods for installing newer versions of packages if you like, which is exactly what I want from a server operating system. If you are looking for more of a Fedora or Arch-like experience on desktop, then you could investigate Debian Testing or Unstable. As for the radare2 security issues, it appears that the package is part of the Ubuntu universe or community repository, and has been abandoned by its maintainer. It won't receive any official support from Canonical. It's probably a bad thing that Ubuntu allows this in a way that's not super clear to the end-user, however the best solution would be for somebody to step up to the role of maintaining the package, or for it to get removed from the universe repository altogether.
- yyyk 6y ago
  Debian-Testing is the worst of both worlds. It doesn't get updated as frequently as -unstable and doesn't get security fixes in time like -stable. e.g. firefox-esr was on 68.11.0 for two months until in the last few days it finally switched to 72.3.0. So users were running a vulnerable version all that time [i.e. they never got even 68.12.0]. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr
  - kelnos 6y ago

guerby 6y ago

At work: # apt-get update ... Reading package lists... Done N: Repository 'http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian buster InRelease' changed its 'Version' value from '10.5' to '10.6'

catherd 6y ago

Does anyone else find the "recent" files section in the Debian 10 (XFCE) file selection dialogs to be significantly less useful than in previous Debian releases? Recently created files just... don't show up. This is a hard one to do an internet search for, and saves a surprising amount of time for some workflows if it works consistently. 1000 internet points to anyone who knows how to make it work as well as it did previously.