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My problem with Python is that once you start working with a strongly-typed language, a duck-typed interpreted language starts to feel like it's missing a major

by skohan 6y ago

My problem with Python is that once you start working with a strongly-typed language, a duck-typed interpreted language starts to feel like it's missing a major tool in terms of writing correct code. I also think S4TF's approach has been really neat here: there's a really nice python interop so you still have access to the entire body of work and tools in python available, and it basically feels like writing native swift code.

formerly_proven 6y ago
> My problem with Python is that once you start working with a strongly-typed language, a duck-typed interpreted language starts to feel like it's missing a major tool in terms of writing correct code. I primarily write C++ and Python and never feel like this.
- skohan 6y ago
  Not all type systems are created equal. Swift's is powerful and expressive
  - amelius 6y ago
    You could at least explain what features set it apart, in your opinion, from other type systems and why they are important in this case ...
    - skohan 6y ago
      Well a good example would be the 1st class optional handling in Swift - Swift's type system gives you explicit tools which make it possible to guarantee you won't have an NPE at runtime, as long as you write idiomatic Swift. This is a whole class of errors which are systematically avoidable in Swift (and other languages, like Rust), but take special care to avoid in c++ or python. So with Swift you get this "if it compiles it runs" experience, which is a difference you would not feel between c++ and python. But in general, c++ to python is an awkward comparison because c++ is extremely low-level by comparison. So you do get static typing, which is nice, but you also get a lot of other issues to deal with - namely manual memory management - so with either python or c++ you have a high probability you will have code which fails at runtime. It would just be the case that in c++ most of the time it would be because you handled memory incorrectly, whereas with python it would more often be because you made a type-related error. Swift is much more comparable with Python in terms of reducing cognitive load by obviating low-level details from the programmer.
- auggierose 6y ago
  Yeah, C++ is not a language with a proper type system. Swift is.

by skohan 6y ago

formerly_proven 6y ago

> My problem with Python is that once you start working with a strongly-typed language, a duck-typed interpreted language starts to feel like it's missing a major tool in terms of writing correct code. I primarily write C++ and Python and never feel like this.

skohan 6y ago
Not all type systems are created equal. Swift's is powerful and expressive
- amelius 6y ago
  You could at least explain what features set it apart, in your opinion, from other type systems and why they are important in this case ...
  - skohan 6y ago
    Well a good example would be the 1st class optional handling in Swift - Swift's type system gives you explicit tools which make it possible to guarantee you won't have an NPE at runtime, as long as you write idiomatic Swift. This is a whole class of errors which are systematically avoidable in Swift (and other languages, like Rust), but take special care to avoid in c++ or python. So with Swift you get this "if it compiles it runs" experience, which is a difference you would not feel between c++ and python. But in general, c++ to python is an awkward comparison because c++ is extremely low-level by comparison. So you do get static typing, which is nice, but you also get a lot of other issues to deal with - namely manual memory management - so with either python or c++ you have a high probability you will have code which fails at runtime. It would just be the case that in c++ most of the time it would be because you handled memory incorrectly, whereas with python it would more often be because you made a type-related error. Swift is much more comparable with Python in terms of reducing cognitive load by obviating low-level details from the programmer.
auggierose 6y ago
Yeah, C++ is not a language with a proper type system. Swift is.