5 ms·

I have a lot of IoT devices in and around my home, including some cameras. I don't trust any of the smart devices, which is why they all have offline/locally co

by dpiers 6y ago

I have a lot of IoT devices in and around my home, including some cameras. I don't trust any of the smart devices, which is why they all have offline/locally controlled operation modes and are segmented off from the rest of the network with their own manufacturer/purpose specific VLANs and firewall rules. I don't think most people comprehend what their devices are doing, or how their data could be used against them. My robovac has a LIDAR sensor that maps the house - that's cool - what isn't cool is that by default it uploads those maps to Xiaomi and they can connect it via GeoIP (or GPS if I ever use their app) and have the location and floorplan of my home. I'm not special enough for that information to be very valuable, but it's still super creepy and I would prefer they not have it.

georgeburdell 6y ago
Are you doing any hand-rolled home automation? I just finished building a house and I had power over ethernet (PoE) put throughout before I discovered that security items using this command a hefty price premium over simple wireless / battery operated. I've toyed with the idea of just buying a Raspberry Pi with a PoE module and a decent camera module and seeing if I can replicate the functionality for half the price or less (and obviously not valuing my time at anything).
- ghaff 6y ago
  Can't speak to PoE but Raspberry Pi works fine as a camera. I just have it shoot a still every hour that I can see on a web page. Also have a temperature sensor. Obviously I could password protect, add a motion sensor, save video, email, etc. if I wanted to get fancier.
- pinkythepig 6y ago
  You can buy splitters that convert the PoE into standard network + barrel power plug. Cost 20ish dollars and a roughly raspberry pi sized device in physical space. One such example (Though I haven't used it personally): https://www.amazon.com/Amcrest-Splitter-Adapter-802-3af-compliant/dp/B00CDT7KPO https://www.amazon.com/Amcrest-Splitter-Adapter-802-3af-comp...
  - EvanAnderson 6y ago
    I have used various PoE splitters over the years. They're very handy. The older generation had barrel plugs, but newer ones have various USB connectivity options too. If you're able to run cable PoE is pretty sweet. It's particularly nice to be able to put a single UPS in place to power a bunch of devices during power outages.
- WWLink 6y ago
  IIRC the amcrest indoor cameras I use are POE compatible and they were like $50. Is that what you meant about a hefty price premium?
- bhhaskin 6y ago
  Check out the cube by pine64. Not available yet. But I bet it is exactly what you are looking for. https://www.pine64.org/cube/ https://www.pine64.org/cube/
- dpiers 6y ago
  I've made some done some stuff with ESP8266 boards - remote controllers for our A/C minisplits[1], motors for our shades[2], and a humidity sensor (DHT11) for our crawlspace. Most devices are connected to HomeKit through a Pi running Homebridge. I wanted voice control and Apple is the company I distrust the least since they at least pretend to care about privacy. I have only messed around a little with HomeAssistant, but that's what I would recommend if you want entirely locally controlled home automation. They even have a voice assistant[1] but for now it's worse than Siri, which is really saying something. 1: https://github.com/SwiCago/HeatPump https://github.com/SwiCago/HeatPump 2: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2392856 https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2392856 3: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2019/11/20/privacy-focused-voice-assistant/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2019/11/20/privacy-focuse...
  - emilburzo 6y ago
    Just a heads-up that DHT11 has ridiculously lousy humidity accuracy, I recommend going at least for DHT22.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  I wouldn't do my security stuff wirelessly if I was serious about it. A simple $2 esp8266 deauther is enough to disrupt WiFi and for the other protocols there's the option of jamming.
  - hunter-gatherer 6y ago
    Our neighbor had his truck stolen and had a wireless camera in his front house. Last footage shows a car pull up across the street, a few minutes later the camera goes out, then when it comes back online the truck and car is gone. I guess the investigation decided it was jammed. So yeah, stick with wired systems.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  Check Ubiquiti's catalog - reasonably priced and plenty of PoE support.
clairity 6y ago
where do you find the necessary protocol information for the various devices? that (and the trickiness of getting the firewall rules just right) seems to be a barrier to adoption for vlan'ing all the things. i still have issues with this on my little home network, typically with service discovery (e.g., mdns) and control app to device(s) communications (e.g., tradfri) across vlan boundaries.
Brushfire 6y ago
How would my cameras be used against me? Pragmatically, not theoretically.
- aqwrdfr 6y ago
  Are you a woman or do you live with any women you care about? It was just last year it was reported that Ring employees had access to live customer camera feeds and would regularly watch each other’s homes and joke about who each other had slept with. If you’re okay with someone in front of a computer screen watching what you and the people you care about do through a camera or even share those videos across the internet, then you’re all good!
  - grayhatter 6y ago
    Whew, I'm a dude, so glad thoes cameras can't actually see me. Does that also mean that the cameras can't see if a guy breaks into my house? That seems like a pretty big risk then.
  - wmeredith 6y ago
    Source?
    - takeda 6y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx2rgLt9gY8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx2rgLt9gY8 https://lmgtfy.app/?q=ring+employees+watching+customers https://lmgtfy.app/?q=ring+employees+watching+customers
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - Zarel 6y ago
      Your other reply is horrible - LMGTFY has apparently gotten much worse and now uses their own heavily monetized search engine rather than Google - so here's a direct link to what the source probably is: https://theintercept.com/2019/01/10/amazon-ring-security-camera/ https://theintercept.com/2019/01/10/amazon-ring-security-cam... > Although the source said they never personally witnessed any egregious abuses, they told The Intercept “if [someone] knew a reporter or competitor’s email address, [they] could view all their cameras.” The source also recounted instances of Ring engineers “teasing each other about who they brought home” after romantic dates. Although the engineers in question were aware that they were being surveilled by their co-workers in real time, the source questioned whether their companions were similarly informed.
xkcd-sucks 6y ago
Btw you should look into Valetudo for xiaomi vacuums it runs locally https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo
- dpiers 6y ago
  Yep, running it for our roborock.
andreareina 6y ago
I have the model one step down and I just didn't go through with the app/wifi setup. Hadn't thought about using a VLAN.

by dpiers 6y ago

georgeburdell 6y ago

Are you doing any hand-rolled home automation? I just finished building a house and I had power over ethernet (PoE) put throughout before I discovered that security items using this command a hefty price premium over simple wireless / battery operated. I've toyed with the idea of just buying a Raspberry Pi with a PoE module and a decent camera module and seeing if I can replicate the functionality for half the price or less (and obviously not valuing my time at anything).

ghaff 6y ago
Can't speak to PoE but Raspberry Pi works fine as a camera. I just have it shoot a still every hour that I can see on a web page. Also have a temperature sensor. Obviously I could password protect, add a motion sensor, save video, email, etc. if I wanted to get fancier.
pinkythepig 6y ago
You can buy splitters that convert the PoE into standard network + barrel power plug. Cost 20ish dollars and a roughly raspberry pi sized device in physical space. One such example (Though I haven't used it personally): https://www.amazon.com/Amcrest-Splitter-Adapter-802-3af-compliant/dp/B00CDT7KPO https://www.amazon.com/Amcrest-Splitter-Adapter-802-3af-comp...
- EvanAnderson 6y ago
  I have used various PoE splitters over the years. They're very handy. The older generation had barrel plugs, but newer ones have various USB connectivity options too. If you're able to run cable PoE is pretty sweet. It's particularly nice to be able to put a single UPS in place to power a bunch of devices during power outages.
WWLink 6y ago
IIRC the amcrest indoor cameras I use are POE compatible and they were like $50. Is that what you meant about a hefty price premium?
bhhaskin 6y ago
Check out the cube by pine64. Not available yet. But I bet it is exactly what you are looking for. https://www.pine64.org/cube/ https://www.pine64.org/cube/
dpiers 6y ago
I've made some done some stuff with ESP8266 boards - remote controllers for our A/C minisplits[1], motors for our shades[2], and a humidity sensor (DHT11) for our crawlspace. Most devices are connected to HomeKit through a Pi running Homebridge. I wanted voice control and Apple is the company I distrust the least since they at least pretend to care about privacy. I have only messed around a little with HomeAssistant, but that's what I would recommend if you want entirely locally controlled home automation. They even have a voice assistant[1] but for now it's worse than Siri, which is really saying something. 1: https://github.com/SwiCago/HeatPump https://github.com/SwiCago/HeatPump 2: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2392856 https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2392856 3: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2019/11/20/privacy-focused-voice-assistant/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2019/11/20/privacy-focuse...
- emilburzo 6y ago
  Just a heads-up that DHT11 has ridiculously lousy humidity accuracy, I recommend going at least for DHT22.
GekkePrutser 6y ago
I wouldn't do my security stuff wirelessly if I was serious about it. A simple $2 esp8266 deauther is enough to disrupt WiFi and for the other protocols there's the option of jamming.
- hunter-gatherer 6y ago
  Our neighbor had his truck stolen and had a wireless camera in his front house. Last footage shows a car pull up across the street, a few minutes later the camera goes out, then when it comes back online the truck and car is gone. I guess the investigation decided it was jammed. So yeah, stick with wired systems.
vorpalhex 6y ago
Check Ubiquiti's catalog - reasonably priced and plenty of PoE support.

clairity 6y ago

where do you find the necessary protocol information for the various devices? that (and the trickiness of getting the firewall rules just right) seems to be a barrier to adoption for vlan'ing all the things. i still have issues with this on my little home network, typically with service discovery (e.g., mdns) and control app to device(s) communications (e.g., tradfri) across vlan boundaries.

Brushfire 6y ago

How would my cameras be used against me? Pragmatically, not theoretically.

aqwrdfr 6y ago
Are you a woman or do you live with any women you care about? It was just last year it was reported that Ring employees had access to live customer camera feeds and would regularly watch each other’s homes and joke about who each other had slept with. If you’re okay with someone in front of a computer screen watching what you and the people you care about do through a camera or even share those videos across the internet, then you’re all good!
- grayhatter 6y ago
  Whew, I'm a dude, so glad thoes cameras can't actually see me. Does that also mean that the cameras can't see if a guy breaks into my house? That seems like a pretty big risk then.
- wmeredith 6y ago
  Source?
  - takeda 6y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx2rgLt9gY8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx2rgLt9gY8 https://lmgtfy.app/?q=ring+employees+watching+customers https://lmgtfy.app/?q=ring+employees+watching+customers
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - Zarel 6y ago
    Your other reply is horrible - LMGTFY has apparently gotten much worse and now uses their own heavily monetized search engine rather than Google - so here's a direct link to what the source probably is: https://theintercept.com/2019/01/10/amazon-ring-security-camera/ https://theintercept.com/2019/01/10/amazon-ring-security-cam... > Although the source said they never personally witnessed any egregious abuses, they told The Intercept “if [someone] knew a reporter or competitor’s email address, [they] could view all their cameras.” The source also recounted instances of Ring engineers “teasing each other about who they brought home” after romantic dates. Although the engineers in question were aware that they were being surveilled by their co-workers in real time, the source questioned whether their companions were similarly informed.

xkcd-sucks 6y ago

Btw you should look into Valetudo for xiaomi vacuums it runs locally https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo

dpiers 6y ago
Yep, running it for our roborock.

andreareina 6y ago

I have the model one step down and I just didn't go through with the app/wifi setup. Hadn't thought about using a VLAN.