15 ms·

Nearly all of those programs listed are funded and administered at the state and local level, which are run by both major political parties.

by bhupy 6y ago

suchire 6y ago
There were many influential policy decisions at the Federal level that pushed for defunding public programs, such as cutting federal grants/loan forgiveness for teacher training
- bhupy 6y ago
  Like what, specifically? To use one of the cited programs, the US school system, as an example: per-pupil inflation-adjusted spending on schools is the highest it's ever been, and has been continuously increasing: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_236.55.asp?current=yes https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_236.55.a... Also, Federal spending only covers about 8% of public school budgets: https://theconversation.com/federal-spending-covers-only-8-of-public-school-budgets-142348 https://theconversation.com/federal-spending-covers-only-8-o...
- claydavisss 6y ago
  Can you honestly not take two seconds to Google-factcheck your own post?
- jakearmitage 6y ago
  Can you cite any?
takeda 6y ago
yep and without federal help the states are struggling the unemployment benefits come from state funds as well
- bhupy 6y ago
  Yeah but nothing stops states from raising their own taxes.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Other than, say, capping the SALT deduction.
    - bhupy 6y ago
      Capping the SALT deduction doesn't stop states from raising their own taxes — it just makes it harder to hide higher state taxes behind Federal deductions. Keep in mind that State and Federal governments are two independent sovereign state actors, with their own expenditures and services. Both have to be paid for somehow, and SALT tax deductions just hide the true cost at the state and local level. Also, the SALT deduction overwhelmingly benefited the rich, who arguably don't pay enough in taxes.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Yet the states with high taxes pay more to the government than they receive compared to the states with lower taxes.
        bhupy 6y ago
        This is: 1. Not true of all low tax states (Nevada, Washington, New Hampshire, South Dakota, etc) 2. More representative of which states have the most senior citizens and military bases, because most of the Federal budget goes into Medicare, Social Security, and the military. 3. Better alleviated by directly targeting net-takers rather than trying to approximate which states are net givers and takers based on the state and local tax rates, which is ham-fisted
        scarface74 6y ago
        Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky , etc have more senior citizens? Even many of the military bases are just unneeded make-work facilities for civilians. The military leadership has constantly been blocked from closing bases that it said it didn’t need by Congress. There are many military bases that are really just poorly disguised subsidies. And just so I can’t be accused of quoting sources from the “liberal media” https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2019/08/15/plans-for-a-new-base-closing-round-may-be-running-out-of-time https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2019/08... Social security and Medicare are also just another form of government subsidizing people. No, what they paid in doesn’t come close to paying for what they received. https://www.politifact.com/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-...
lostcolony 6y ago
Actually most of those are a combination of funding sources. But even given that, the effectiveness of those programs can't be distanced from counter effects from national policy. For instance, libraries are funded by both federal and local sources. There is only one party that consistently wants to remove that funding (hint @which one: https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/libraries/article/79496-in-fy2020-budget-proposal-trump-renews-bid-to-end-to-federal-library-funding.html https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/l...) How much additionally is spent is locally determined, yes, and here you see that disparity as well. In Georgia, a heavily GOP state where I have family, the online catalog is pretty meager, even for major cities. While they have PINES for the less populous counties, a state-wide interlibrary loan program, it only is for physical books. Access to electronic resources is anemic. In California, a heavily Dem state where I live, the online resources tend to be excellent (especially if you're in larger counties/cities), not only having an extensive online catalog, but a lot of extras (Kanopy, Hoopla, language learning stuff, etc). But even all that aside, the -effectiveness- is curtailed by federal effects. Online resource access, extremely relevant under COVID, requires stable internet access. But unfortunately, that's not always available. Attempts to treat internet as a utility, to financially fund broadband rollout nationwide, have failed, due to one particular party preferring it staying privatized and purely for profit. Programs to create financial incentives to offset the cost even where it is rolled out have been created, but only under one party, and the other seems inclined to defund or cancel them. Attempts to allow municipalities to roll out their own broadband to be able to offer faster speeds without data caps at lower prices have been fought tooth and nail, again, by one particular party, on behalf of preventing governmental 'competition' with the private sector. Etc. In short, while you're right that localities are run by both major political parties, both the explicit statement you make that funding is local (only), and the implicit belief you're relying on that you can distance local effect from federal decisions, are wrong.
- bhupy 6y ago
  0.4% (yes, really) of library funding comes from the Federal government. Cutting that spending is literally a rounding error for libraries. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/library-funding https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/library... Only 8% of public school budgets comes from the Federal government: https://theconversation.com/federal-spending-covers-only-8-of-public-school-budgets-142348 https://theconversation.com/federal-spending-covers-only-8-o... The impact of Federal spending cuts on these programs is overrated, and one good-faith reason for cutting that spending is to federalize (I.e. decentralize) the administration of those services.
ojbyrne 6y ago
State balanced budget provisions have largely been pushed by one party.
rdtwo 6y ago
It’s not a funding problem. It’s a lack of National policy problem. Every little fiefdom of government is creating their own covid policy. Even overlapping districts and library systems will have drastically different policies. If everyone pooled their resources outcomes would be much better but instead every organization is spending significant resources on drastically different unaligned covid policy.
- bhupy 6y ago
  Except this is exactly how nation states work... The State Massachusetts has more people than the entire country of Norway. At the state level, scale is more than sufficient.
  - rdtwo 6y ago
    But the individual states don’t have cohesion either. Ever school district in the state runs a different curriculum and uses a different set of textbooks
    - bhupy 6y ago
      That's true within many countries also (see: Germany, Switzerland, Australia, Canada). Different States have different ways of running their shit — some better than others...just like nation-states.

Nearly all of those programs listed are funded and administered at the state and local level, which are run by both major political parties.

by bhupy 6y ago

Nearly all of those programs listed are funded and administered at the state and local level, which are run by both major political parties.

suchire 6y ago

There were many influential policy decisions at the Federal level that pushed for defunding public programs, such as cutting federal grants/loan forgiveness for teacher training

bhupy 6y ago
Like what, specifically? To use one of the cited programs, the US school system, as an example: per-pupil inflation-adjusted spending on schools is the highest it's ever been, and has been continuously increasing: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_236.55.asp?current=yes https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_236.55.a... Also, Federal spending only covers about 8% of public school budgets: https://theconversation.com/federal-spending-covers-only-8-of-public-school-budgets-142348 https://theconversation.com/federal-spending-covers-only-8-o...
claydavisss 6y ago
Can you honestly not take two seconds to Google-factcheck your own post?
jakearmitage 6y ago
Can you cite any?

takeda 6y ago

yep and without federal help the states are struggling the unemployment benefits come from state funds as well

bhupy 6y ago
Yeah but nothing stops states from raising their own taxes.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Other than, say, capping the SALT deduction.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    Capping the SALT deduction doesn't stop states from raising their own taxes — it just makes it harder to hide higher state taxes behind Federal deductions. Keep in mind that State and Federal governments are two independent sovereign state actors, with their own expenditures and services. Both have to be paid for somehow, and SALT tax deductions just hide the true cost at the state and local level. Also, the SALT deduction overwhelmingly benefited the rich, who arguably don't pay enough in taxes.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Yet the states with high taxes pay more to the government than they receive compared to the states with lower taxes.
      - bhupy 6y ago
        This is: 1. Not true of all low tax states (Nevada, Washington, New Hampshire, South Dakota, etc) 2. More representative of which states have the most senior citizens and military bases, because most of the Federal budget goes into Medicare, Social Security, and the military. 3. Better alleviated by directly targeting net-takers rather than trying to approximate which states are net givers and takers based on the state and local tax rates, which is ham-fisted
        scarface74 6y ago
        Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky , etc have more senior citizens? Even many of the military bases are just unneeded make-work facilities for civilians. The military leadership has constantly been blocked from closing bases that it said it didn’t need by Congress. There are many military bases that are really just poorly disguised subsidies. And just so I can’t be accused of quoting sources from the “liberal media” https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2019/08/15/plans-for-a-new-base-closing-round-may-be-running-out-of-time https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2019/08... Social security and Medicare are also just another form of government subsidizing people. No, what they paid in doesn’t come close to paying for what they received. https://www.politifact.com/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-...

lostcolony 6y ago

Actually most of those are a combination of funding sources. But even given that, the effectiveness of those programs can't be distanced from counter effects from national policy. For instance, libraries are funded by both federal and local sources. There is only one party that consistently wants to remove that funding (hint @which one: https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/libraries/article/79496-in-fy2020-budget-proposal-trump-renews-bid-to-end-to-federal-library-funding.html https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/l...) How much additionally is spent is locally determined, yes, and here you see that disparity as well. In Georgia, a heavily GOP state where I have family, the online catalog is pretty meager, even for major cities. While they have PINES for the less populous counties, a state-wide interlibrary loan program, it only is for physical books. Access to electronic resources is anemic. In California, a heavily Dem state where I live, the online resources tend to be excellent (especially if you're in larger counties/cities), not only having an extensive online catalog, but a lot of extras (Kanopy, Hoopla, language learning stuff, etc). But even all that aside, the -effectiveness- is curtailed by federal effects. Online resource access, extremely relevant under COVID, requires stable internet access. But unfortunately, that's not always available. Attempts to treat internet as a utility, to financially fund broadband rollout nationwide, have failed, due to one particular party preferring it staying privatized and purely for profit. Programs to create financial incentives to offset the cost even where it is rolled out have been created, but only under one party, and the other seems inclined to defund or cancel them. Attempts to allow municipalities to roll out their own broadband to be able to offer faster speeds without data caps at lower prices have been fought tooth and nail, again, by one particular party, on behalf of preventing governmental 'competition' with the private sector. Etc. In short, while you're right that localities are run by both major political parties, both the explicit statement you make that funding is local (only), and the implicit belief you're relying on that you can distance local effect from federal decisions, are wrong.

bhupy 6y ago
0.4% (yes, really) of library funding comes from the Federal government. Cutting that spending is literally a rounding error for libraries. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/library-funding https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/library... Only 8% of public school budgets comes from the Federal government: https://theconversation.com/federal-spending-covers-only-8-of-public-school-budgets-142348 https://theconversation.com/federal-spending-covers-only-8-o... The impact of Federal spending cuts on these programs is overrated, and one good-faith reason for cutting that spending is to federalize (I.e. decentralize) the administration of those services.

ojbyrne 6y ago

State balanced budget provisions have largely been pushed by one party.

rdtwo 6y ago

It’s not a funding problem. It’s a lack of National policy problem. Every little fiefdom of government is creating their own covid policy. Even overlapping districts and library systems will have drastically different policies. If everyone pooled their resources outcomes would be much better but instead every organization is spending significant resources on drastically different unaligned covid policy.

bhupy 6y ago
Except this is exactly how nation states work... The State Massachusetts has more people than the entire country of Norway. At the state level, scale is more than sufficient.
- rdtwo 6y ago
  But the individual states don’t have cohesion either. Ever school district in the state runs a different curriculum and uses a different set of textbooks
  - bhupy 6y ago
    That's true within many countries also (see: Germany, Switzerland, Australia, Canada). Different States have different ways of running their shit — some better than others...just like nation-states.