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This "This is easy to talk about but hard to do, because it requires not being greedy." It seems that no one gets this. Today people want to replicate YC becau

This "This is easy to talk about but hard to do, because it requires not being greedy." It seems that no one gets this. Today people want to replicate YC because "I want to get rich like they did." because for them, it is all about the money. From what I've read, PG wasn't about the money he was all about helping people realize their ambitions. Self help types and management coaches will say "Focus on the things people need and the money will take care of itself." And for so many of us that sounds like "start walking and have faith that you'll find food and shelter along the way." The existential threat of our voluntary action resulting in our own demise, inhibits our ability to act on the advice. On a much smaller scale, and very much closer to home for many, is the advice "Work like you don't need a job." Which is essentially do the Right thing, always, and if it gets you fired or you lose your job, that is okay because you were doing the right thing. But the thought of "What would I do if I didn't have this job? I've got rent and food and car payments and bills, I'd be homeless and never work again!" works against this advice and so people compromise their principles or their morals or their willingness to do harm to others, because they are just doing what the boss told them to do and they really need this job. My personal experience is that you definitely take an impact in your promotion/raise/advancement when you follow your principles an speak truth to power. I don't know that I've ever directly been fired over it but I have had some interesting conversations with senior leaders who did not appreciate having their ill-conceived choices called out. But I can assure you that if you have a moral compass and you follow it, even over the objections of people who would have you do otherwise, you can sleep better at night and you can look back on your life with way fewer regrets.

whatshisface 6y ago
>But the thought of "What would I do if I didn't have this job? I've got rent and food and car payments and bills, I'd be homeless and never work again!" works against this advice and so people compromise their principles or their morals or their willingness to do harm to others, because they are just doing what the boss told them to do and they really need this job. I have been really careful to save money for paying bills on bad days, largely with the intention of building a "wronged for doing right" fund. A responsible person has to proactively protect their soul just the same as they would anything else. :)
- ghufran_syed 6y ago
  Along the same lines, in business school, people would talk about the importance of saving up “fuck you” money in your first few years of work - so that when you’re asked to do something unethical at work, you have enough money that you can say “fuck you” and walk way. Of course, I’d argue that we shouldn’t give ourselves the excuse that “I don’t have the money to do the right thing” - but the concept that sometimes fighting an ethical battle requires financial “ammunition” is an interesting one.
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    It's not that you need money to say no to evil orders, it's that when you say no to evil orders, which anyone would do anyway, being prepared means you won't have as much trouble as a result. >people would talk about the importance of saving up “fuck you” money in your first few years of work - so that when you’re asked to do something unethical at work, you have enough money that you can say “fuck you” and walk way. Haha, that is definitely not what that phrase is talking about.
    - im3w1l 6y ago
      > It's not that you need money to say no to evil orders, it's that when you say no to evil orders, which anyone would do anyway, Orders aren't black and white evil. If you have an insecure situation, and especially if you have dependents, than it's very natural to let lighter shades of grey slide.
      - RobertoG 6y ago
        "Honor is a luxury". Unfortunately, I don't remember where I read that.
        pacificleo12 6y ago
        David Graber in Debt : The First 5000 Years ??
      - 6y ago
vecter 6y ago
I take issue with this: > But the thought of "What would I do if I didn't have this job? I've got rent and food and car payments and bills, I'd be homeless and never work again!" works against this advice and so people compromise their principles or their morals or their willingness to do harm to others, because they are just doing what the boss told them to do and they really need this job." This seems so out of touch with reality and totally ignores the day-to-day struggles that many people have. PG (I'm not sure about Jessica's situation at the time) was doing well financially after having sold Viaweb. This doesn't take away from PG's desire to help or his accomplishments, but most folks are not rich or making $500k/year working in Silicon Valley and can't afford to throw away their jobs.
- setr 6y ago
  Its difficult to throw away your job even if you make good money -- because you naturally take on debts and consumption to match.
  - animationwill 6y ago
    > because you naturally take on debts and consumption to match. While this is certainly the common natural path, not everyone does and the "financial independence" movement is a community of those who actively try to avoid this natural path
  - luckylion 6y ago
    I read that a lot, but I've never actually met anyone that does that. If by "consumption to match" they mean "have children", maybe, but otherwise, I don't know. All of my friends that are making good money are putting away significant sums. Maybe it's a class thing? When you're middle class and you're making twice the average income, you're not immediately turning into a jet setter or by a sports car. If you live a middle class life, you have a whole extra income each month that just sits there.
    - mattmanser 6y ago
      How would you even know? People won't be telling you they're overstretching themselves. Or they've got huge credit card bills. Or got a ton of loans. The other thing that's avoiding forcing these sort of problems into the light is low interest rates and a lack of a housing market bubble pop. In the UK they've used all sorts of tricks to make sure the housing market doesn't pop. If those change, that brings out all the people who over-stretched themselves on things they couldn't really afford. But it seems to be general policy around the world to penalize savers and reward spenders. That's good for growth, but could potentially cause some serious problems.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mbesto 6y ago
> From what I've read, PG wasn't about the money he was all about helping people realize their ambitions. BS. If that was the case, then YC would be a non-profit and they would accept everyone. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make money AND help people, but pretending like PG/Jessica are some benevolent leaders is disingenuous. You're falling victim to some of the cargo cult nature of YC. As PG has said himself (paraphrased) "I think most tech entrepreneurs want to become incredibly wealthy, not to simply be wealthy, but to work on things they truly want to do". My interpretation is that he is no different and he gets personal enjoyment out of helping others (the financials give him the freedom to do this without ever having to worry about financials ever again).
- lijason 6y ago
  >BS. If that was the case, then YC would be a non-profit and they would accept everyone. I could see the argument for the first (non-profit) but not the second (accept everyone). Filtering down to a set of folks that they think they'd be able to most effectively help would make a lot of sense regardless of reason for doing.
- mlinsey 6y ago
  If YC were a non-profit, they definitely wouldn't have been able to raise money from LP's to scale the program, and would therefore been able to accept far fewer teams than they do now, certainly not everyone! I agree that there's nothing wrong with wanting to make money AND help people, but I also want to add that strictly maximizing the positive impact does not mean strictly minimizing making money either, sometimes making money enables you to help a lot more people too...
- brain5ide 6y ago
  I call BS on your claim about everyone being in. For anything to work only a particular type of people must be in especially at the start. To be honest most of PGs writings are dedicated to defining that, including your quote. At least that's what I take from it. Cultism is just something that follows success.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
SubuSS 6y ago
> But the thought of "What would I do if I didn't have this job? I've got rent and food and car payments and bills, I'd be homeless and never work again!" works against this advice and so people compromise their principles or their morals or their willingness to do harm to others, because they are just doing what the boss told them to do and they really need this job. I will give an anecdote - take it for what you will: Once upon a time I was driving in India with my FIL. If you don't know about India, traffic is nuts. We were going down an one-way street and folks were still coming in the opposite direction :). I was raging as expected because it was so dangerous - my westernized sensibilities meant I was remarking how come these folks can't follow such simple rules! My FIL responded in a way that has stuck to me till date: You have a job in a multi-national company and have comfortably crossed the base level of Maslow's hierarchy. That guy who's coming in the wrong way, if he is late to his job, he doesn't eat today. Strong morals are sometime a privilege :)
- andi999 6y ago
  Do you mean Maxwell or Maslows hierachy? I dont buy the argument that poor people have to break the rules. Of course in India you have correlation a lot of poor people and a lot of people evading the rules, but does this imply causation? Probably the causation is in the other direction. I believe weak and corrupt enforcement (the latter beeing the worst) leads to this. If you know the police will fine you anyway no matter what you do, some probably stop following the rules and then it becomes a culture.
  - SubuSS 6y ago
    Welp you're right: Maslow's. Re breaking rules: I think it is more of a spectrum. As you become richer, you become more able to follow the 'nicer' rules. Poor people generally don't go around murdering for example, but I did see a lot of relatively smaller rules broken. I am sure there is a very human mix of laziness, mob mentality, corruption that feed into it - but his meta point is still true: Some rules are meant for privileged people. Unless the party line is that 'you should be willing to die for your morals': There are very few who live by this and I admire them a lot. But I like a more practical approach to life - meaning the above anecdote consoles me.
fortran77 6y ago
> It seems that no one gets this. Today people want to replicate YC because "I want to get rich like they did." because for them, it is all about the money. From what I've read, PG wasn't about the money he was all about helping people realize their ambitions. Relevant: https://youtu.be/rdN_hijtnGk?t=89 https://youtu.be/rdN_hijtnGk?t=89
hinkley 6y ago
The concept you're describing is "Doing Well by Doing Good". There's a qualitative difference between the pure, easily exploited Calvinist interpretation of this concept (hard work and sacrifice will be rewarded by some nebulous power that is keeping score) and the more assertive flavor you see in well-run organizations - confidence, openness and a dash of charity gets people to trust and want to collaborate with you, and you all benefit. Being the nexus of a bunch of such collaborations means you benefit the most.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
KKKKkkkk1 6y ago
On a much smaller scale, and very much closer to home for many, is the advice "Work like you don't need a job." Which is essentially do the Right thing, always, and if it gets you fired or you lose your job, that is okay because you were doing the right thing. You know how they say "Trying to explain privilege is like explaining water to a fish, they can't see it until they're out of it?" Now I understand that saying.
- emiliobumachar 6y ago
  People all across the privilege scale, up to and including people who would never need to work another day in their lives, fail to do the Right thing.
- graeme 6y ago
  A substantial portion of university graduates do not, in fact, need a job right away. Gap years are common. And with small income you can get by (ramen profitable). Obviously there’s privilege there. But it’s not top 1% or anything.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    I guess if you're talking about a subset of the 31% of graduates who don't have student debt, you might be right. [0] Sure, it's not top 1%, but it's certainly closer to the top 10% who have this luxury, as opposed to, say, the median college graduate. --- [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/how-much-the-average-student-loan-borrower-owes-when-they-graduate.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/how-much-the-average-student...
    - graeme 6y ago
      Yup. Even broader than that actually. When I left school to start a business, I had student debt. But the govt also had a low income loan assistance program, where you don’t have to pay till you’re above a certain income. I had some loan money still in my account, and mostly worked “like I didn’t need a job”. I did a bit of consulting work within my industry, but just enough to get by and avoided it where possible. I think I made about $11,000 in my first year. And it all worked. I didn’t increase my debt, and the business grew after that. There’s obviously privilege involved, but I try to push back because people write as if you need some insane level of privilege. I’m guessing 30-50% of college grads could try something like that without too much risk. (If I had had zero traction in the first 6-12 months I would have potentially stopped and gone back to school) Circumstances vary: I’m in Canada, so that accounted for loan repayment + not worrying about medical expenses. I could also stay on my school secondary health insurance (dental etc) through August of my first year.
robomartin 6y ago
> My personal experience is that you definitely take an impact in your promotion/raise/advancement when you follow your principles an speak truth to power. I have very much experienced this and have navigated options ranging from "if they don't care, I don't care" to "I don't care if I lose my job, I have to speak-up". Like you, I can't say any of this resulted in direct firing. In one case I am pretty sure the consequence was that my consulting contract was not renewed, costing me hundreds of thousands of dollars. The irony of that particular case is that the CEO held regular all-hands meetings during which he explicitly said he wanted people to bring up issues and that he actually wanted to promote and appreciated that level of honesty. What I brought-up cost them millions of dollars and was going to cost millions yet. In fact, the group managers I was working with were lying to the CEO. The operational costs after deployment of the ill-conceived design would have been in the tens of millions of dollars and untold delays. Well, the rest is billion-dollar-corporation history (in more ways than I can describe on a public forum).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
na85 6y ago
>My personal experience is that you definitely take an impact in your promotion/raise/advancement when you follow your principles an speak truth to power. I don't know that I've ever directly been fired over it but I have had some interesting conversations with senior leaders who did not appreciate having their ill-conceived choices called out. But I can assure you that if you have a moral compass and you follow it, even over the objections of people who would have you do otherwise, you can sleep better at night and you can look back on your life with way fewer regrets. I've had similarly interesting conversations and I agree. However I have a good salary, a spouse who works, and I live in a "first-world" country with a reasonably good social safety net and sane healthcare policy (i.e. not America). Therefore I thankfully have never been forced to choose between working ethically and paying the bills. I've never had to seriously weigh speaking truth to power and saving for my daughter's university tuition. Or putting food on the table. Too often it seems the people who advocate things like "working like you don't need the job" are the ones who don't actually need the job because they're supported by a working spouse, investment income, or are otherwise wealthy enough to float for a few months until something better comes along. Getting advice like "prioritize ethics over income" from a gazillionaire like Sam Altman who can afford that luxury (yes, it's a luxury) seems particularly tone-deaf.
chrisweekly 6y ago
I agree w you regardless, but FWIW my personal experience has been the polar opposite: speaking up and pushing back has only ever helped my career. I've seen my ups and downs, but overall have quadrupled my annual income since starting in the field some 22 years ago. Of course you need to be tactful; don't just be argumentative or contrarian! But I strongly believe that staying silent for fear of making a career-limiting move IS a career-limiting move.
- chrisweekly 6y ago
  PS I don't know why I wrote "quadrupled"; the word would be "octupled". I've doubled it 3x, or 2^3, ie 8x.

whatshisface 6y ago

ghufran_syed 6y ago
Along the same lines, in business school, people would talk about the importance of saving up “fuck you” money in your first few years of work - so that when you’re asked to do something unethical at work, you have enough money that you can say “fuck you” and walk way. Of course, I’d argue that we shouldn’t give ourselves the excuse that “I don’t have the money to do the right thing” - but the concept that sometimes fighting an ethical battle requires financial “ammunition” is an interesting one.
- whatshisface 6y ago
  It's not that you need money to say no to evil orders, it's that when you say no to evil orders, which anyone would do anyway, being prepared means you won't have as much trouble as a result. >people would talk about the importance of saving up “fuck you” money in your first few years of work - so that when you’re asked to do something unethical at work, you have enough money that you can say “fuck you” and walk way. Haha, that is definitely not what that phrase is talking about.
  - im3w1l 6y ago
    > It's not that you need money to say no to evil orders, it's that when you say no to evil orders, which anyone would do anyway, Orders aren't black and white evil. If you have an insecure situation, and especially if you have dependents, than it's very natural to let lighter shades of grey slide.
    - RobertoG 6y ago
      "Honor is a luxury". Unfortunately, I don't remember where I read that.
      - pacificleo12 6y ago
        David Graber in Debt : The First 5000 Years ??
    - 6y ago

vecter 6y ago

I take issue with this: > But the thought of "What would I do if I didn't have this job? I've got rent and food and car payments and bills, I'd be homeless and never work again!" works against this advice and so people compromise their principles or their morals or their willingness to do harm to others, because they are just doing what the boss told them to do and they really need this job." This seems so out of touch with reality and totally ignores the day-to-day struggles that many people have. PG (I'm not sure about Jessica's situation at the time) was doing well financially after having sold Viaweb. This doesn't take away from PG's desire to help or his accomplishments, but most folks are not rich or making $500k/year working in Silicon Valley and can't afford to throw away their jobs.

setr 6y ago
Its difficult to throw away your job even if you make good money -- because you naturally take on debts and consumption to match.
- animationwill 6y ago
  > because you naturally take on debts and consumption to match. While this is certainly the common natural path, not everyone does and the "financial independence" movement is a community of those who actively try to avoid this natural path
- luckylion 6y ago
  I read that a lot, but I've never actually met anyone that does that. If by "consumption to match" they mean "have children", maybe, but otherwise, I don't know. All of my friends that are making good money are putting away significant sums. Maybe it's a class thing? When you're middle class and you're making twice the average income, you're not immediately turning into a jet setter or by a sports car. If you live a middle class life, you have a whole extra income each month that just sits there.
  - mattmanser 6y ago
    How would you even know? People won't be telling you they're overstretching themselves. Or they've got huge credit card bills. Or got a ton of loans. The other thing that's avoiding forcing these sort of problems into the light is low interest rates and a lack of a housing market bubble pop. In the UK they've used all sorts of tricks to make sure the housing market doesn't pop. If those change, that brings out all the people who over-stretched themselves on things they couldn't really afford. But it seems to be general policy around the world to penalize savers and reward spenders. That's good for growth, but could potentially cause some serious problems.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mbesto 6y ago

> From what I've read, PG wasn't about the money he was all about helping people realize their ambitions. BS. If that was the case, then YC would be a non-profit and they would accept everyone. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make money AND help people, but pretending like PG/Jessica are some benevolent leaders is disingenuous. You're falling victim to some of the cargo cult nature of YC. As PG has said himself (paraphrased) "I think most tech entrepreneurs want to become incredibly wealthy, not to simply be wealthy, but to work on things they truly want to do". My interpretation is that he is no different and he gets personal enjoyment out of helping others (the financials give him the freedom to do this without ever having to worry about financials ever again).

lijason 6y ago
>BS. If that was the case, then YC would be a non-profit and they would accept everyone. I could see the argument for the first (non-profit) but not the second (accept everyone). Filtering down to a set of folks that they think they'd be able to most effectively help would make a lot of sense regardless of reason for doing.
mlinsey 6y ago
If YC were a non-profit, they definitely wouldn't have been able to raise money from LP's to scale the program, and would therefore been able to accept far fewer teams than they do now, certainly not everyone! I agree that there's nothing wrong with wanting to make money AND help people, but I also want to add that strictly maximizing the positive impact does not mean strictly minimizing making money either, sometimes making money enables you to help a lot more people too...
brain5ide 6y ago
I call BS on your claim about everyone being in. For anything to work only a particular type of people must be in especially at the start. To be honest most of PGs writings are dedicated to defining that, including your quote. At least that's what I take from it. Cultism is just something that follows success.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

SubuSS 6y ago

> But the thought of "What would I do if I didn't have this job? I've got rent and food and car payments and bills, I'd be homeless and never work again!" works against this advice and so people compromise their principles or their morals or their willingness to do harm to others, because they are just doing what the boss told them to do and they really need this job. I will give an anecdote - take it for what you will: Once upon a time I was driving in India with my FIL. If you don't know about India, traffic is nuts. We were going down an one-way street and folks were still coming in the opposite direction :). I was raging as expected because it was so dangerous - my westernized sensibilities meant I was remarking how come these folks can't follow such simple rules! My FIL responded in a way that has stuck to me till date: You have a job in a multi-national company and have comfortably crossed the base level of Maslow's hierarchy. That guy who's coming in the wrong way, if he is late to his job, he doesn't eat today. Strong morals are sometime a privilege :)

andi999 6y ago
Do you mean Maxwell or Maslows hierachy? I dont buy the argument that poor people have to break the rules. Of course in India you have correlation a lot of poor people and a lot of people evading the rules, but does this imply causation? Probably the causation is in the other direction. I believe weak and corrupt enforcement (the latter beeing the worst) leads to this. If you know the police will fine you anyway no matter what you do, some probably stop following the rules and then it becomes a culture.
- SubuSS 6y ago
  Welp you're right: Maslow's. Re breaking rules: I think it is more of a spectrum. As you become richer, you become more able to follow the 'nicer' rules. Poor people generally don't go around murdering for example, but I did see a lot of relatively smaller rules broken. I am sure there is a very human mix of laziness, mob mentality, corruption that feed into it - but his meta point is still true: Some rules are meant for privileged people. Unless the party line is that 'you should be willing to die for your morals': There are very few who live by this and I admire them a lot. But I like a more practical approach to life - meaning the above anecdote consoles me.

fortran77 6y ago

> It seems that no one gets this. Today people want to replicate YC because "I want to get rich like they did." because for them, it is all about the money. From what I've read, PG wasn't about the money he was all about helping people realize their ambitions. Relevant: https://youtu.be/rdN_hijtnGk?t=89 https://youtu.be/rdN_hijtnGk?t=89

hinkley 6y ago

The concept you're describing is "Doing Well by Doing Good". There's a qualitative difference between the pure, easily exploited Calvinist interpretation of this concept (hard work and sacrifice will be rewarded by some nebulous power that is keeping score) and the more assertive flavor you see in well-run organizations - confidence, openness and a dash of charity gets people to trust and want to collaborate with you, and you all benefit. Being the nexus of a bunch of such collaborations means you benefit the most.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

KKKKkkkk1 6y ago

On a much smaller scale, and very much closer to home for many, is the advice "Work like you don't need a job." Which is essentially do the Right thing, always, and if it gets you fired or you lose your job, that is okay because you were doing the right thing. You know how they say "Trying to explain privilege is like explaining water to a fish, they can't see it until they're out of it?" Now I understand that saying.

emiliobumachar 6y ago
People all across the privilege scale, up to and including people who would never need to work another day in their lives, fail to do the Right thing.
graeme 6y ago
A substantial portion of university graduates do not, in fact, need a job right away. Gap years are common. And with small income you can get by (ramen profitable). Obviously there’s privilege there. But it’s not top 1% or anything.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  I guess if you're talking about a subset of the 31% of graduates who don't have student debt, you might be right. [0] Sure, it's not top 1%, but it's certainly closer to the top 10% who have this luxury, as opposed to, say, the median college graduate. --- [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/how-much-the-average-student-loan-borrower-owes-when-they-graduate.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/how-much-the-average-student...
  - graeme 6y ago
    Yup. Even broader than that actually. When I left school to start a business, I had student debt. But the govt also had a low income loan assistance program, where you don’t have to pay till you’re above a certain income. I had some loan money still in my account, and mostly worked “like I didn’t need a job”. I did a bit of consulting work within my industry, but just enough to get by and avoided it where possible. I think I made about $11,000 in my first year. And it all worked. I didn’t increase my debt, and the business grew after that. There’s obviously privilege involved, but I try to push back because people write as if you need some insane level of privilege. I’m guessing 30-50% of college grads could try something like that without too much risk. (If I had had zero traction in the first 6-12 months I would have potentially stopped and gone back to school) Circumstances vary: I’m in Canada, so that accounted for loan repayment + not worrying about medical expenses. I could also stay on my school secondary health insurance (dental etc) through August of my first year.

robomartin 6y ago

> My personal experience is that you definitely take an impact in your promotion/raise/advancement when you follow your principles an speak truth to power. I have very much experienced this and have navigated options ranging from "if they don't care, I don't care" to "I don't care if I lose my job, I have to speak-up". Like you, I can't say any of this resulted in direct firing. In one case I am pretty sure the consequence was that my consulting contract was not renewed, costing me hundreds of thousands of dollars. The irony of that particular case is that the CEO held regular all-hands meetings during which he explicitly said he wanted people to bring up issues and that he actually wanted to promote and appreciated that level of honesty. What I brought-up cost them millions of dollars and was going to cost millions yet. In fact, the group managers I was working with were lying to the CEO. The operational costs after deployment of the ill-conceived design would have been in the tens of millions of dollars and untold delays. Well, the rest is billion-dollar-corporation history (in more ways than I can describe on a public forum).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

na85 6y ago

>My personal experience is that you definitely take an impact in your promotion/raise/advancement when you follow your principles an speak truth to power. I don't know that I've ever directly been fired over it but I have had some interesting conversations with senior leaders who did not appreciate having their ill-conceived choices called out. But I can assure you that if you have a moral compass and you follow it, even over the objections of people who would have you do otherwise, you can sleep better at night and you can look back on your life with way fewer regrets. I've had similarly interesting conversations and I agree. However I have a good salary, a spouse who works, and I live in a "first-world" country with a reasonably good social safety net and sane healthcare policy (i.e. not America). Therefore I thankfully have never been forced to choose between working ethically and paying the bills. I've never had to seriously weigh speaking truth to power and saving for my daughter's university tuition. Or putting food on the table. Too often it seems the people who advocate things like "working like you don't need the job" are the ones who don't actually need the job because they're supported by a working spouse, investment income, or are otherwise wealthy enough to float for a few months until something better comes along. Getting advice like "prioritize ethics over income" from a gazillionaire like Sam Altman who can afford that luxury (yes, it's a luxury) seems particularly tone-deaf.

chrisweekly 6y ago

I agree w you regardless, but FWIW my personal experience has been the polar opposite: speaking up and pushing back has only ever helped my career. I've seen my ups and downs, but overall have quadrupled my annual income since starting in the field some 22 years ago. Of course you need to be tactful; don't just be argumentative or contrarian! But I strongly believe that staying silent for fear of making a career-limiting move IS a career-limiting move.

chrisweekly 6y ago
PS I don't know why I wrote "quadrupled"; the word would be "octupled". I've doubled it 3x, or 2^3, ie 8x.