5 ms·

Surely being in the midst of a pandemic with no cure is the time to be overly cautious about long term implications. We have nothing but anecdotal reports becau

Surely being in the midst of a pandemic with no cure is the time to be overly cautious about long term implications. We have nothing but anecdotal reports because the disease has been around for a year. If infections disease experts are worried about long haulers, I'm more inclined to trust their judgement than someone saying it's probably not a big deal because Americans are just fat and drunk.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I agree, but it's my understanding that infectious disease experts aren't the ones presenting these worries about long haulers. None of the doctors quoted in the article seem to be infectious disease experts.
- NationalPark 6y ago
  Check out TWiV (https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/ https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/ it's a podcast but the hosts are infections disease experts), they've been talking about long hauler research (at this point, mostly just reports from clinical physicians) for months.
  - charwalker 6y ago
    Talking about to provide a platform for conversation of a phenomenon to understand it or talking about it to push the conclusions because they think they are valid? Genuine question as I haven't followed that podcast.
    - NationalPark 6y ago
      It's pretty neutral and evidenced based... the hosts are all MDs or PhDs or both. They criticize political decisions that they feel are based on bad science, but they usually stick to what can be objectively measured and proven.
- btilly 6y ago
  None of the doctors quoted in the article seem to be infectious disease experts. The very first doctor quoted is Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. You might want to reconsider that "None".
  - irq11 6y ago
    And what did he say? ”Anecdotally, there’s no question that there are a considerable number of individuals who have a postviral syndrome that really, in many respects, can incapacitate them for weeks and weeks following so-called recovery and clearing of the virus,” in other words, he’s acknowledging that these people exist and are reporting something. He’s not saying anything about the validity of their claims.
    - btilly 6y ago
      He is later quoted as saying that the symptoms are highly suggestive of myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). This indicates that Fauci believes that many of the claims are valid, and is suggesting a potentially fruitful area of investigation. You can add to that the many scientific publications cited about what fraction of people seem to encounter these symptoms and what symptoms they are. While I agree that self-diagnosis by hypochondriacs will lead to a lot of anecdotes not based in reality, there is also plenty of evidence that there is a real issue here as well.
      - irq11 6y ago
        ”He is later quoted as saying that the symptoms are highly suggestive of myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS).” Right, which is still pure speculation. And by the way: CFS is a diagnosis of exclusion. The man is obviously not validating that thousands of people have an illness based on anecdotes. That would be a sure way to lose his medical license. ” You can add to that the many scientific publications cited about what fraction of people seem to encounter these symptoms and what symptoms they are.” So far, that number is “zero”. There have been no publications showing any evidence that “these symptoms” occur at any rate above baseline in the population. If any existed, sure they’d have mentioned them in this article? There have been a few publications suggesting cardiac involvement in a small number of patients. To date, most of these have been withdrawn or debunked. Beyond this, the “publications“ on “long-haul Covid” consist almost exclusively of self-reported symptom data from people who self-select for feeling crummy. But I am always interested in evidence, and I welcome you to cite the research upon which you’re basing your conjecture.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

I agree, but it's my understanding that infectious disease experts aren't the ones presenting these worries about long haulers. None of the doctors quoted in the article seem to be infectious disease experts.

NationalPark 6y ago
Check out TWiV (https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/ https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/ it's a podcast but the hosts are infections disease experts), they've been talking about long hauler research (at this point, mostly just reports from clinical physicians) for months.
- charwalker 6y ago
  Talking about to provide a platform for conversation of a phenomenon to understand it or talking about it to push the conclusions because they think they are valid? Genuine question as I haven't followed that podcast.
  - NationalPark 6y ago
    It's pretty neutral and evidenced based... the hosts are all MDs or PhDs or both. They criticize political decisions that they feel are based on bad science, but they usually stick to what can be objectively measured and proven.
btilly 6y ago
None of the doctors quoted in the article seem to be infectious disease experts. The very first doctor quoted is Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. You might want to reconsider that "None".
- irq11 6y ago
  And what did he say? ”Anecdotally, there’s no question that there are a considerable number of individuals who have a postviral syndrome that really, in many respects, can incapacitate them for weeks and weeks following so-called recovery and clearing of the virus,” in other words, he’s acknowledging that these people exist and are reporting something. He’s not saying anything about the validity of their claims.
  - btilly 6y ago
    He is later quoted as saying that the symptoms are highly suggestive of myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). This indicates that Fauci believes that many of the claims are valid, and is suggesting a potentially fruitful area of investigation. You can add to that the many scientific publications cited about what fraction of people seem to encounter these symptoms and what symptoms they are. While I agree that self-diagnosis by hypochondriacs will lead to a lot of anecdotes not based in reality, there is also plenty of evidence that there is a real issue here as well.
    - irq11 6y ago
      ”He is later quoted as saying that the symptoms are highly suggestive of myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS).” Right, which is still pure speculation. And by the way: CFS is a diagnosis of exclusion. The man is obviously not validating that thousands of people have an illness based on anecdotes. That would be a sure way to lose his medical license. ” You can add to that the many scientific publications cited about what fraction of people seem to encounter these symptoms and what symptoms they are.” So far, that number is “zero”. There have been no publications showing any evidence that “these symptoms” occur at any rate above baseline in the population. If any existed, sure they’d have mentioned them in this article? There have been a few publications suggesting cardiac involvement in a small number of patients. To date, most of these have been withdrawn or debunked. Beyond this, the “publications“ on “long-haul Covid” consist almost exclusively of self-reported symptom data from people who self-select for feeling crummy. But I am always interested in evidence, and I welcome you to cite the research upon which you’re basing your conjecture.