4 ms·

Unpopular opinion but: telemetrics help developers prioritize stuff and triage bugs. From a user’s point of view, isn’t that a substantial benefit?

saagarjha 6y ago
Telemetrics are frequently inaccurate, sometimes to the point they paint a picture are interpreted in a a way that’s the opposite of reality. Windows telemetry in particular is not nice because it’s not really possible to turn off on the lower editions and it also does not seem to translate to benefits–especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team.
- emteycz 6y ago
  > especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team. Or telemetry made it way simpler.
- ksk 6y ago
  What are you basing this on? Are you talking about Windows or just random telemetry?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    The first statement was general, the second is specific to Windows.
krageon 6y ago
Very good software was written before people that think like you were taken seriously. Clearly it is not necessary.
- Hackbraten 6y ago
  You know you can disagree with me while still respecting my opinion? Also, beneficial does not imply necessary.
  - krageon 6y ago
    I can respect you as a person while still thinking your opinion is not to be taken seriously. Respecting an opinion which is this far off the mark isn't something I'm willing to do.
- ksk 6y ago
  Today's software is vastly better in UX than software in the 90s and 00. Certainly I don't attribute all of that to telemetry, but your opposite view is incorrect.
tinus_hn 6y ago
That kind of telemetry was in Windows 95 already with dr Watson. If people want the benefit of having the problems they run into fixed and they believe telemetry helps with that, they can just turn it on. No need to force things.
- Hackbraten 6y ago
  > No need to force things. Forced telemetry and opt-out telemetry are two different things. The former is clearly evil. The latter can be helpful if it’s communicated clearly and not hidden in some EULA.
pmontra 6y ago
Crash reports usually yes (but how to prevent receiving personal data from stack dumps?), features selection probably not. The reason is that you don't get data from the people who disable telemetry and they could use different features. You must find them, poll them and merge the results with what telemetry gives you. If you don't do that, telemetry is detrimental to those people.
- Hackbraten 6y ago
  Yeah, such statistics will always be skewed to some extent. One could argue that telemetry _is_ the poll. If a user decides to disable feature-usage-tracking telemetry, and then realize they’d prefer to have a voice regarding feature selection, one possible solution would be for them to re-enable it. If they absolutely won’t opt-in, they’re always free to email developers to tell them about their use case – a pretty powerful way to make yourself heard.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
I haven't seen any benefit. Why should microsoft know everything and record everything I do with my computer. It could be opt in I suppose. But as it is, it is -extremely- hard for the regular user to opt out.

saagarjha 6y ago

Telemetrics are frequently inaccurate, sometimes to the point they paint a picture are interpreted in a a way that’s the opposite of reality. Windows telemetry in particular is not nice because it’s not really possible to turn off on the lower editions and it also does not seem to translate to benefits–especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team.

emteycz 6y ago
> especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team. Or telemetry made it way simpler.
ksk 6y ago
What are you basing this on? Are you talking about Windows or just random telemetry?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  The first statement was general, the second is specific to Windows.

krageon 6y ago

Very good software was written before people that think like you were taken seriously. Clearly it is not necessary.

Hackbraten 6y ago
You know you can disagree with me while still respecting my opinion? Also, beneficial does not imply necessary.
- krageon 6y ago
  I can respect you as a person while still thinking your opinion is not to be taken seriously. Respecting an opinion which is this far off the mark isn't something I'm willing to do.
ksk 6y ago
Today's software is vastly better in UX than software in the 90s and 00. Certainly I don't attribute all of that to telemetry, but your opposite view is incorrect.

tinus_hn 6y ago

That kind of telemetry was in Windows 95 already with dr Watson. If people want the benefit of having the problems they run into fixed and they believe telemetry helps with that, they can just turn it on. No need to force things.

Hackbraten 6y ago
> No need to force things. Forced telemetry and opt-out telemetry are two different things. The former is clearly evil. The latter can be helpful if it’s communicated clearly and not hidden in some EULA.

pmontra 6y ago

Crash reports usually yes (but how to prevent receiving personal data from stack dumps?), features selection probably not. The reason is that you don't get data from the people who disable telemetry and they could use different features. You must find them, poll them and merge the results with what telemetry gives you. If you don't do that, telemetry is detrimental to those people.

Hackbraten 6y ago
Yeah, such statistics will always be skewed to some extent. One could argue that telemetry _is_ the poll. If a user decides to disable feature-usage-tracking telemetry, and then realize they’d prefer to have a voice regarding feature selection, one possible solution would be for them to re-enable it. If they absolutely won’t opt-in, they’re always free to email developers to tell them about their use case – a pretty powerful way to make yourself heard.

stjohnswarts 6y ago

I haven't seen any benefit. Why should microsoft know everything and record everything I do with my computer. It could be opt in I suppose. But as it is, it is -extremely- hard for the regular user to opt out.