6 ms·

The amount of user data collected in Windows 10 for example. Next to no user benefits, just value extracted for Microsoft. Automatic updates on reboot. For exa

The amount of user data collected in Windows 10 for example. Next to no user benefits, just value extracted for Microsoft. Automatic updates on reboot. For example when someone giving a presentation or class has to restart their computer for some reason (quite common in Windows still, or one just ran out of power). Boot up the computer, people waiting impatiently - and then have to wait for 5-30 minutes for the computer to finish updates before being able to use it. No way to cancel/post-pone, no time-estimates for when it will be done.

rblatz 6y ago
I go months without needing to reboot windows, and have for over a decade. Typically if I need to reboot it’s due to an update or software that requires a reboot to install.
- sdfqasdghj 6y ago
  How? When I last used Windows it forced a reboot to do updates once a month. If I let it pick the time it was often a bad time.
  - toyg 6y ago
    To be fair, that's typically a policy enforced by administrators: "patch X should be force-installed if not present by Date Y" + "reboot should be forced if not happening after Z days from patching" => "reboot will happen at Date Y + Z, regardless of user's wishes".
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    O&O ShutUP 10. It will let you disable the automatic update nonsense (along with a bunch of other nonsense).
  - rvba 6y ago
    I dont use Windows much, but you can go to services and disable Windows the update service and.. in the Wifi settings check a box that says you have a limited connection.
  - ksk 6y ago
    Unfortunately, this is not possible on their consumer OS branch (unless you hack the system, but I have found that it often makes the OS unstable because its in an unsupported system state). For me, our IT manages the systems. They get to decide when the systems update. I have a test box that regularly sees months of uptime. https://i.imgur.com/XN2Hjia.png https://i.imgur.com/XN2Hjia.png
- mhh__ 6y ago
  The bigger issue, I think, I really having to restart just to update minor things i.e. what linux distro needs to restart just to update (the equivalent of) visual studio
Hackbraten 6y ago
Unpopular opinion but: telemetrics help developers prioritize stuff and triage bugs. From a user’s point of view, isn’t that a substantial benefit?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Telemetrics are frequently inaccurate, sometimes to the point they paint a picture are interpreted in a a way that’s the opposite of reality. Windows telemetry in particular is not nice because it’s not really possible to turn off on the lower editions and it also does not seem to translate to benefits–especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    > especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team. Or telemetry made it way simpler.
  - ksk 6y ago
    What are you basing this on? Are you talking about Windows or just random telemetry?
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      The first statement was general, the second is specific to Windows.
- krageon 6y ago
  Very good software was written before people that think like you were taken seriously. Clearly it is not necessary.
  - Hackbraten 6y ago
    You know you can disagree with me while still respecting my opinion? Also, beneficial does not imply necessary.
s_gourichon 6y ago
Indeed, Windows update delaying a reboot at a wrong time can affect real world events. See this example from 2015: [German pro basketball team relegated to lower division due to Windows update | Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/german-pro-basketball-team-relegated-to-lower-division-due-to-windows-update/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/germa...) > "But as both teams warmed up, the computer crashed," he said. "When we booted it again at 7:20pm, it started automatically downloading updates. But we did not initiate anything." > After all the updates were installed, Paderborn was ready to start the game at 7:55pm. > But then Chemnitz formally protested, saying that because Paderborn had delayed the start time of the match by 25 minutes (instead of the 15-minute maximum as allowed under the German basketball rules), they should be penalized. As a result, Paderborn lost another point (Google Translate) in the standings, according to a Basketball Budesliga press release, which meant that it would certainly be relegated to the "ProB" league of German pro basketball.
oblio 6y ago
The telemetry is shady but the automatic updates are a... necessary evil. People would delay updates for MONTHS by clicking that postpone button. Windows is by design meant to be used by not very computer literate people and unfortunately these kinds of users need to be forced to do the right thing sometimes. As they said back in the day: "the user will do everything possible to see the dancing bears, including downloading that toolbar, installing that gizmo, disabling security settings". People smugly complain about this, in many cases from their Linux box (= technical users on a system with a 1% desktop market share => smaller target and better human protection) or MacOS box (= slightly more technical users than the average Windows user, on a system with a 5%-10% desktop market share).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Da, it is for your own good comrade! I really wish people who insist on claiming some right to control how users use their own computers would leave IT forever.
  - reflectiv 6y ago
    And if it were left open ended at the request of people like you...we'd still have compromised systems out there spread amongst normal people as well as within infrastructure and other more critical pieces of hardware. People cannot be trusted to upgrade. It REALLY IS good to force people to upgrade.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      > People cannot be trusted to upgrade. It REALLY IS good to force people to upgrade. The very idea that users should be at the mercy of their computers instead of the other way around is contrary to the concept of personal computing. People like you are why I hate IT these days. You seem to think that because you have some specialized knowledge about computers that you're smarter than everyone who doesn't. You're totally willing to sacrifice hours of peoples lives, ruin their projects, and break their systems in the name of "I know better". It doesn't matter what they're doing, or how important it is to their lives, what matters is what you think is important.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
To be fair it asks to update or not to update. You can also set how often it does check and when it installs (at night). It's just a google search away.

rblatz 6y ago

I go months without needing to reboot windows, and have for over a decade. Typically if I need to reboot it’s due to an update or software that requires a reboot to install.

sdfqasdghj 6y ago
How? When I last used Windows it forced a reboot to do updates once a month. If I let it pick the time it was often a bad time.
- toyg 6y ago
  To be fair, that's typically a policy enforced by administrators: "patch X should be force-installed if not present by Date Y" + "reboot should be forced if not happening after Z days from patching" => "reboot will happen at Date Y + Z, regardless of user's wishes".
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  O&O ShutUP 10. It will let you disable the automatic update nonsense (along with a bunch of other nonsense).
- rvba 6y ago
  I dont use Windows much, but you can go to services and disable Windows the update service and.. in the Wifi settings check a box that says you have a limited connection.
- ksk 6y ago
  Unfortunately, this is not possible on their consumer OS branch (unless you hack the system, but I have found that it often makes the OS unstable because its in an unsupported system state). For me, our IT manages the systems. They get to decide when the systems update. I have a test box that regularly sees months of uptime. https://i.imgur.com/XN2Hjia.png https://i.imgur.com/XN2Hjia.png
mhh__ 6y ago
The bigger issue, I think, I really having to restart just to update minor things i.e. what linux distro needs to restart just to update (the equivalent of) visual studio

Hackbraten 6y ago

Unpopular opinion but: telemetrics help developers prioritize stuff and triage bugs. From a user’s point of view, isn’t that a substantial benefit?

saagarjha 6y ago
Telemetrics are frequently inaccurate, sometimes to the point they paint a picture are interpreted in a a way that’s the opposite of reality. Windows telemetry in particular is not nice because it’s not really possible to turn off on the lower editions and it also does not seem to translate to benefits–especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team.
- emteycz 6y ago
  > especially as around the time of its inclusion word got out that Microsoft was cutting a large portion of their QA team. Or telemetry made it way simpler.
- ksk 6y ago
  What are you basing this on? Are you talking about Windows or just random telemetry?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    The first statement was general, the second is specific to Windows.
krageon 6y ago
Very good software was written before people that think like you were taken seriously. Clearly it is not necessary.
- Hackbraten 6y ago
  You know you can disagree with me while still respecting my opinion? Also, beneficial does not imply necessary.

s_gourichon 6y ago

Indeed, Windows update delaying a reboot at a wrong time can affect real world events. See this example from 2015: [German pro basketball team relegated to lower division due to Windows update | Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/german-pro-basketball-team-relegated-to-lower-division-due-to-windows-update/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/germa...) > "But as both teams warmed up, the computer crashed," he said. "When we booted it again at 7:20pm, it started automatically downloading updates. But we did not initiate anything." > After all the updates were installed, Paderborn was ready to start the game at 7:55pm. > But then Chemnitz formally protested, saying that because Paderborn had delayed the start time of the match by 25 minutes (instead of the 15-minute maximum as allowed under the German basketball rules), they should be penalized. As a result, Paderborn lost another point (Google Translate) in the standings, according to a Basketball Budesliga press release, which meant that it would certainly be relegated to the "ProB" league of German pro basketball.

oblio 6y ago

The telemetry is shady but the automatic updates are a... necessary evil. People would delay updates for MONTHS by clicking that postpone button. Windows is by design meant to be used by not very computer literate people and unfortunately these kinds of users need to be forced to do the right thing sometimes. As they said back in the day: "the user will do everything possible to see the dancing bears, including downloading that toolbar, installing that gizmo, disabling security settings". People smugly complain about this, in many cases from their Linux box (= technical users on a system with a 1% desktop market share => smaller target and better human protection) or MacOS box (= slightly more technical users than the average Windows user, on a system with a 5%-10% desktop market share).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
Da, it is for your own good comrade! I really wish people who insist on claiming some right to control how users use their own computers would leave IT forever.
- reflectiv 6y ago
  And if it were left open ended at the request of people like you...we'd still have compromised systems out there spread amongst normal people as well as within infrastructure and other more critical pieces of hardware. People cannot be trusted to upgrade. It REALLY IS good to force people to upgrade.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    > People cannot be trusted to upgrade. It REALLY IS good to force people to upgrade. The very idea that users should be at the mercy of their computers instead of the other way around is contrary to the concept of personal computing. People like you are why I hate IT these days. You seem to think that because you have some specialized knowledge about computers that you're smarter than everyone who doesn't. You're totally willing to sacrifice hours of peoples lives, ruin their projects, and break their systems in the name of "I know better". It doesn't matter what they're doing, or how important it is to their lives, what matters is what you think is important.

stjohnswarts 6y ago

To be fair it asks to update or not to update. You can also set how often it does check and when it installs (at night). It's just a google search away.