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Yeah, politics gets in everywhere and seems impossible to avoid it. Even if you purposefully avoid it, you're making a political statement. On one hand, what d

Yeah, politics gets in everywhere and seems impossible to avoid it. Even if you purposefully avoid it, you're making a political statement. On one hand, what does it mean to have a "no politics at work" policy? If Hootsuite have contracts with ICE, it's already political at that point, as they are helping the organization be more efficient/valuable/whatever. If they don't take any contracts that might be political, they won't be able to do any business at all. On the other hand, for-profit companies goal is to get profits. If they prioritize political stances in-front of that, they are bound to confuse people who are working there, who understands it's a business, not a political/non-profit organization.

hiimtroymclure 6y ago
all good points. super confusing times we live in right now. Are we going to evolve where theres conservative companies and liberal companies who only support customers of that same belief system? I dont think so but who knows. I dont see how anyone can get think we are going down a path that wont lead to ugly, ugly times.
- capableweb 6y ago
  I think (and/or hope maybe) that eventually people will realize that corporations are just that, corporations. The purpose is to earn money. If you (also/more) care about something else, then you don't work for a corporation, you work for something else.
  - northernjames 6y ago
    Thinking only about profit can and has lead corporations to some pretty dark places. Just because you work for a corporation does not absolve you basic human decency.
    - capableweb 6y ago
      I agree! But, short-term profits are different than long-term profits as well. I think the sooner people realize what capitalism does to our world and how focusing on profits, ownership and consumerism makes everything more shit, the better.
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    > I think (and/or hope maybe) that eventually people will realize that corporations are just that, corporations. The purpose is to earn money. Even assuming that were true (Hootsuite is a B Corp, so it's not quite that simple), companies have to engage in reputation management as part of making money. The result of this is that even entirely profit-focused companies will often refuse to deal with certain suppliers and customers. This is effectively a cost of doing business for highly disreputable companies and organisations; certain suppliers simply won't deal with them. As I mentioned elsewhere, pornography is a particularly dramatic example, with its own (very expensive) supporting ecosystem of companies.
bluecalm 6y ago
Accepting profitable contracts from government agencies shouldn't be seen as political. It's just mature attitude: you accept the process and respect whoever ends up in power and whatever policies that decide on. Refusing to make business with the government if it's not your guys calling the shots is political activism though.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  "I was just following purchase orders"
- capableweb 6y ago
  > Accepting profitable contracts from government agencies shouldn't be seen as political But it is, and will always be, political to do anything. If you're accepting a contract with the government, you're saying that you agree that this government should exists, that governments are a good idea in general, and this one is the current rightful government for where you are, otherwise you wouldn't work with them. It's a fruitless exercise in trying to remove politics from anything, because anything can and will be politicalized.
  - bluecalm 6y ago
    No. I am saying I respect the political process and the will of those people who voted for the current government. We argue, we vote and then we accept the consequences and work with each other not pack up and cry like 5 years old.
- klyrs 6y ago
  If the government needs gas chambers, the responsible thing to do is make gas chambers. Don't worry about what they're using them for, that's just process and policy. Click your heels and fall in line, that's the mature, responsible and profitable thing to do. Not like those damned political activists; the world would be a better place if they were in gas chambers anyway. > Refusing to make business with the government if it's not your guys calling the shots is political activism though. Only, ICE was deplorable under Obama too.
IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
People aren't stupid. "We try to earn money. But if it costs us $1 to save someone, somewhere, we will always do so" is basic moral decency on a level that any five-year old will understand it.
- capableweb 6y ago
  Absolutely, most people are actually smart, at least in my experience. But I think it's important to realize that this "basic moral decency" you talk about, is something that we commonly use in a lot of industries, but no one is forcing us too, so it can quickly disappear or be forgotten. Especially when you're working in a for-profit company. It starts being murky when the $1 changes to $10 or $100, as now you're trying to balance two values, profits and overall helpfulness. If you're asking the company to take a stance, you and others might feel differently about what's important. Some industries simply look the other way and make the simple statement that it's all about money, nothing else. Sometimes I dream of taking that stance, just because everything would be simpler.
  - nickff 6y ago
    It's not just about 'looking the other way'; companies that take these stances are presenting a risk of discontinuation of services to customers. Any potentially politically controversial customer now has to discount Hootsuite's reliability; somewhat akin to how Google has a reputation for cancelling products. Hootsuite has basically eroded every client's faith.

hiimtroymclure 6y ago

all good points. super confusing times we live in right now. Are we going to evolve where theres conservative companies and liberal companies who only support customers of that same belief system? I dont think so but who knows. I dont see how anyone can get think we are going down a path that wont lead to ugly, ugly times.

capableweb 6y ago
I think (and/or hope maybe) that eventually people will realize that corporations are just that, corporations. The purpose is to earn money. If you (also/more) care about something else, then you don't work for a corporation, you work for something else.
- northernjames 6y ago
  Thinking only about profit can and has lead corporations to some pretty dark places. Just because you work for a corporation does not absolve you basic human decency.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    I agree! But, short-term profits are different than long-term profits as well. I think the sooner people realize what capitalism does to our world and how focusing on profits, ownership and consumerism makes everything more shit, the better.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  > I think (and/or hope maybe) that eventually people will realize that corporations are just that, corporations. The purpose is to earn money. Even assuming that were true (Hootsuite is a B Corp, so it's not quite that simple), companies have to engage in reputation management as part of making money. The result of this is that even entirely profit-focused companies will often refuse to deal with certain suppliers and customers. This is effectively a cost of doing business for highly disreputable companies and organisations; certain suppliers simply won't deal with them. As I mentioned elsewhere, pornography is a particularly dramatic example, with its own (very expensive) supporting ecosystem of companies.

bluecalm 6y ago

Accepting profitable contracts from government agencies shouldn't be seen as political. It's just mature attitude: you accept the process and respect whoever ends up in power and whatever policies that decide on. Refusing to make business with the government if it's not your guys calling the shots is political activism though.

rsynnott 6y ago
"I was just following purchase orders"
capableweb 6y ago
> Accepting profitable contracts from government agencies shouldn't be seen as political But it is, and will always be, political to do anything. If you're accepting a contract with the government, you're saying that you agree that this government should exists, that governments are a good idea in general, and this one is the current rightful government for where you are, otherwise you wouldn't work with them. It's a fruitless exercise in trying to remove politics from anything, because anything can and will be politicalized.
- bluecalm 6y ago
  No. I am saying I respect the political process and the will of those people who voted for the current government. We argue, we vote and then we accept the consequences and work with each other not pack up and cry like 5 years old.
klyrs 6y ago
If the government needs gas chambers, the responsible thing to do is make gas chambers. Don't worry about what they're using them for, that's just process and policy. Click your heels and fall in line, that's the mature, responsible and profitable thing to do. Not like those damned political activists; the world would be a better place if they were in gas chambers anyway. > Refusing to make business with the government if it's not your guys calling the shots is political activism though. Only, ICE was deplorable under Obama too.

IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago

People aren't stupid. "We try to earn money. But if it costs us $1 to save someone, somewhere, we will always do so" is basic moral decency on a level that any five-year old will understand it.

capableweb 6y ago
Absolutely, most people are actually smart, at least in my experience. But I think it's important to realize that this "basic moral decency" you talk about, is something that we commonly use in a lot of industries, but no one is forcing us too, so it can quickly disappear or be forgotten. Especially when you're working in a for-profit company. It starts being murky when the $1 changes to $10 or $100, as now you're trying to balance two values, profits and overall helpfulness. If you're asking the company to take a stance, you and others might feel differently about what's important. Some industries simply look the other way and make the simple statement that it's all about money, nothing else. Sometimes I dream of taking that stance, just because everything would be simpler.
- nickff 6y ago
  It's not just about 'looking the other way'; companies that take these stances are presenting a risk of discontinuation of services to customers. Any potentially politically controversial customer now has to discount Hootsuite's reliability; somewhat akin to how Google has a reputation for cancelling products. Hootsuite has basically eroded every client's faith.