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I dunno, but Collateral Damage, Snowden panama papers... Imagine if they spend 10% of resources that they spent going after leakers punishing real perpetrator

I dunno, but Collateral Damage, Snowden panama papers... Imagine if they spend 10% of resources that they spent going after leakers punishing real perpetrators.

sailfast 6y ago
They... do? That’s what FINCEN is.
vmception 6y ago
SARs are just spam. There is nothing to deal with. Its an odd name for a receipt that gets printed at the bank's discretion.
- defterGoose 6y ago
  Can I just ask...WTAF are you talking about? Because you sound like a troll.
  - vmception 6y ago
    That a suspicious activity report is not indication of a crime, anything suspicious, and a lot of them get filed many times automatically
    - lixtra 6y ago
      I would appreciate if you could point to some actual data (number of SARs per year in country, false positives...).
      - vmception 6y ago
        I just don't find your cognitive dissonance to be relevant. You’re asking for something to be proved - or supporting evidence that requires a whole dissertation - because your exposure is starting from a position that is fundamentally wrong. “Suspicious” is a misnomer referring to an automatic reporting threshold, that in fewer additional circumstances allows for discretion in filing. The end.
        lixtra 6y ago
        > from a position that is fundamentally wrong I’m baffled how asking for data is revealing my position? I had the hope that your position is well founded and it would be easy to point to actual data. I hardly believe that the compliance laws are not accompanied by studies that collect the data that i asked for. So it should be out there.
        vmception 6y ago
        Like I said, I dont find your cognitive dissonance relevant enough to want to do that research for you. If you do research it, I hope the filter bubble Google put you in lets you get access to this version of reality. Good luck.
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        In 2019 for example, the US had 2.7 million SAR filings. (https://www.fincen.gov/reports/sar-stats https://www.fincen.gov/reports/sar-stats, all industry types + year 2019 + all states), compared to a touch above 5,000 white collar federal prosecutions (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-collar-crime-prosecutions-have-hit-lowest-level-in-33-years/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-collar-crime-prosecutions...). It's hard to directly calculate a "false positive rate" from those things, because some criminals may generate multiple SARs and others may simply go unprosecuted, but I think such a vast gulf is pretty inconsistent with an idea that most SARs report crimes. It's certainly conventional wisdom in financial circles that a SAR is worth about as much as a user report on a Reddit comment.
starkred 6y ago
They may be going after the real perpetrators. If they are, they probably don't want the perpetrators to know how much information they have. If so, their cases may have just been blown apart by these leaks, and the perpetrators are even less likely to get persecuted.
- f-securus 6y ago
  They may, If they are, if so... but extremely doubtful given the history of prosecuting white collar crime in this and other countries. Didn't we have many financial crime leaks this past decade with essentially no repercussions?
  - starkred 6y ago
    It seems to be widely believed that nothing came from the Panama Papers, but I think that's only because people hoped to see some CEOs perp-walked to a waiting cop car. There certainly have been repercussions. >Twenty-three countries have already recovered at least US$1.2 billion in taxes, heads of government implicated in corruption or tax avoidance have resigned or faced prosecution and there have been investigations in at least 82 countries. Mossack Fonseca, the law firm at the centre of the story, has shut down and the Panama Papers have prompted high-level political debates and expedited policy reforms around the world https://www.transparency.org/en/news/three-years-after-the-panama-papers-progress-on-horizon# https://www.transparency.org/en/news/three-years-after-the-p...
    - f-securus 6y ago
      How big of a proportion do you think that 1.2 billion is when compared to total amount of taxes avoided? I'd be willing to bet less than 1%. The company that was center of the documents no longer exists... and ctrl+f this wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Panama_Papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Panama_Papers it seems only one person from Venezuela was arrested (and his mom, but she was allowed to go home due to health reasons). So it seems what I said is still correct... almost no repercussions for white collar crime across the globe. I'd bet it still occurs rampantly.

I dunno, but Collateral Damage, Snowden panama papers... Imagine if they spend 10% of resources that they spent going after leakers punishing real perpetrators.

sailfast 6y ago

They... do? That’s what FINCEN is.

vmception 6y ago

SARs are just spam. There is nothing to deal with. Its an odd name for a receipt that gets printed at the bank's discretion.

defterGoose 6y ago
Can I just ask...WTAF are you talking about? Because you sound like a troll.
- vmception 6y ago
  That a suspicious activity report is not indication of a crime, anything suspicious, and a lot of them get filed many times automatically
  - lixtra 6y ago
    I would appreciate if you could point to some actual data (number of SARs per year in country, false positives...).
    - vmception 6y ago
      I just don't find your cognitive dissonance to be relevant. You’re asking for something to be proved - or supporting evidence that requires a whole dissertation - because your exposure is starting from a position that is fundamentally wrong. “Suspicious” is a misnomer referring to an automatic reporting threshold, that in fewer additional circumstances allows for discretion in filing. The end.
      - lixtra 6y ago
        > from a position that is fundamentally wrong I’m baffled how asking for data is revealing my position? I had the hope that your position is well founded and it would be easy to point to actual data. I hardly believe that the compliance laws are not accompanied by studies that collect the data that i asked for. So it should be out there.
        vmception 6y ago
        Like I said, I dont find your cognitive dissonance relevant enough to want to do that research for you. If you do research it, I hope the filter bubble Google put you in lets you get access to this version of reality. Good luck.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      In 2019 for example, the US had 2.7 million SAR filings. (https://www.fincen.gov/reports/sar-stats https://www.fincen.gov/reports/sar-stats, all industry types + year 2019 + all states), compared to a touch above 5,000 white collar federal prosecutions (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-collar-crime-prosecutions-have-hit-lowest-level-in-33-years/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-collar-crime-prosecutions...). It's hard to directly calculate a "false positive rate" from those things, because some criminals may generate multiple SARs and others may simply go unprosecuted, but I think such a vast gulf is pretty inconsistent with an idea that most SARs report crimes. It's certainly conventional wisdom in financial circles that a SAR is worth about as much as a user report on a Reddit comment.

starkred 6y ago

They may be going after the real perpetrators. If they are, they probably don't want the perpetrators to know how much information they have. If so, their cases may have just been blown apart by these leaks, and the perpetrators are even less likely to get persecuted.

f-securus 6y ago
They may, If they are, if so... but extremely doubtful given the history of prosecuting white collar crime in this and other countries. Didn't we have many financial crime leaks this past decade with essentially no repercussions?
- starkred 6y ago
  It seems to be widely believed that nothing came from the Panama Papers, but I think that's only because people hoped to see some CEOs perp-walked to a waiting cop car. There certainly have been repercussions. >Twenty-three countries have already recovered at least US$1.2 billion in taxes, heads of government implicated in corruption or tax avoidance have resigned or faced prosecution and there have been investigations in at least 82 countries. Mossack Fonseca, the law firm at the centre of the story, has shut down and the Panama Papers have prompted high-level political debates and expedited policy reforms around the world https://www.transparency.org/en/news/three-years-after-the-panama-papers-progress-on-horizon# https://www.transparency.org/en/news/three-years-after-the-p...
  - f-securus 6y ago
    How big of a proportion do you think that 1.2 billion is when compared to total amount of taxes avoided? I'd be willing to bet less than 1%. The company that was center of the documents no longer exists... and ctrl+f this wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Panama_Papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Panama_Papers it seems only one person from Venezuela was arrested (and his mom, but she was allowed to go home due to health reasons). So it seems what I said is still correct... almost no repercussions for white collar crime across the globe. I'd bet it still occurs rampantly.