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Imagine if you showed up to a self-storage facility one day and find a different lock on your unit. You go to the manager and ask what the hell is going on. >

Imagine if you showed up to a self-storage facility one day and find a different lock on your unit. You go to the manager and ask what the hell is going on. > Oh, you? Yeah, your unit was full of stolen goods, so we seized it and changed the lock. > There was nothing stolen in there! What about a bunch of banged up furniture and old cans of paint made you think it was stolen? (the manager stares blankly) > Well?! (crickets) > Can I at least take back my stuff that you didn't mistake for being stolen? > We burned it all and sunk the ashes in the Mariana Trench. There is no recourse. As far as we're concerned, you don't exist. Have a nice day! > Gee, thanks... ᵃˢˢʰᵒˡᵉ --- If we ever come up with a digital bill of rights, one of the amendments should include being given a grace period to retrieve all of the data that you stored with a service in case they decide to terminate your account. It's absurd that you can store your data with a service one day, and in the next it's all gone because reasons.

amelius 6y ago
Sounds similar to how Paypal users routinely had their assets frozen. There was even a website about it, I think it was paypalsucks.com.
- Psychlist 6y ago
  you say 'frozen" but I think you mean "stolen". When someone offers to forward money to me in exchange for a small fee, we sign a contract, then they keep all the money that's at best fraud but in reality theft. Now all I need to do is hire a US legal firm to sue paypal and get my money. Even if it was $100,000 it still wouldn't be worth it. Paypal know this.
rdiddly 6y ago
At least they chose the heaviest & most metalish place to dispose of the ashes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKz7r86aT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKz7r86aT8
- ravenstine 6y ago
  I miss that show!
- dmh2000 6y ago
  I smell the irony
Symbiote 6y ago
"The data protection law establishes that you have the right not to be subject to a decision based solely on automated means, if the decision produces legal effects concerning you or significantly affects you in a similar way." One of the clauses of the GDPR gives EU residents the right to appeal certain automated decisions that might affect them. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rights-citizens/my-rights/can-i-be-subject-automated-individual-decision-making-including-profiling_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...
- mdaniel 6y ago
  I'm sorry I didn't see your comment earlier, or I would have linked to yours from mine While I was researching some substantiation for my comment, I noticed that Wikipedia has a citation saying "Why a Right to Explanation of Automated Decision-Making Does Not Exist in the General Data Protection Regulation" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#cite_note-66 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... ) -- any idea if the footnote is outdated, or perhaps the actual statute is more nuanced than one might think?
- mr_toad 6y ago
  > you have the right not to be subject to a decision based solely on automated means Sounds like traffic lights are illegal in the EU.
  - mqus 6y ago
    Well no, because its a general regulation which can be overridden by other more specific laws. But besides that, I think that the scope of the regulation probably doesn't encompass traffic lights (no personal data involved). But I didn't look it up :D
  - qayxc 6y ago
    How does that follow? Traffic lights aren't the subject of copyright claims.
jjeaff 6y ago
Actually, I would modify that comparison. More like, imagine if you show up to your storage one day and the lock is changed. You talk to the manager and he says, "you can no longer have access to your items because you have broken one of the rules in our 5,000 page terms of service". "Which rule did I break?", you ask. He answers, "you can no longer have access to your items because you have broken one of the rules in our 5,000 page terms of service." You appeal multiple times and receive the exact same answer with a blank stare from the manager until he says: "you can no longer have access to your items because you have broken one of the rules in our 5,000 page terms of service, this decision is final and no further communication from you will be reviewed." Then he just sits and stares at you blankly like you don't exist, no matter what you say. This is also exactly how Amazon handles shutting down sellers as well.
- 13415 6y ago
  Facebook does the same with ads customers if they think one of their ominous rules has been broken repeatedly. If the algorithm decides so, you can lose the ability to ever run an ad again by logging in from the wrong IP number. Only a law that prohibits or at least severely limits automated handling of customer complaints would help against these practices.
  - mdaniel 6y ago
    > Only a law that prohibits or at least severely limits automated handling of customer complaints would help against these practices. I only recently learned that GDPR actually includes such a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Right_to_object_and_automated_decisions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... although a footnote later appears to say "no, it does not" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#cite_note-66 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... so I guess we leave that fight to lawyers There is further commentary elsewhere in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24572144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24572144
- hinkley 6y ago
  I’m switching to T-Mobile as soon as the next phone is released because something in AT&T’s CRM is broken in such a way that they don’t remember how many times I’ve called them to fix an autopay that’s been broken since I reported my old card lost a year and a half ago. Every person I get on the phone treats me like a child who can’t fill out a support form. So they fill it out for me and no payments are ever done. This is the same card I used to manually pay in their support system, which works. If I pretend not to know when the last time was I contacted them, they can’t tell me. Escalate a ticket, no answer. I’m afraid that whatever is broken will stop the phone number transfer from succeeding.
dalbasal 6y ago
Replace "lock" with digital key and "manager" with "automated email" and this starts to sound like 2027. Kafka, at least, got to talk to a person. OTOH, we get to enjoy our Kafkaesque distopia without having to physically go to some office.

amelius 6y ago

Sounds similar to how Paypal users routinely had their assets frozen. There was even a website about it, I think it was paypalsucks.com.

Psychlist 6y ago
you say 'frozen" but I think you mean "stolen". When someone offers to forward money to me in exchange for a small fee, we sign a contract, then they keep all the money that's at best fraud but in reality theft. Now all I need to do is hire a US legal firm to sue paypal and get my money. Even if it was $100,000 it still wouldn't be worth it. Paypal know this.

rdiddly 6y ago

At least they chose the heaviest & most metalish place to dispose of the ashes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKz7r86aT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKz7r86aT8

ravenstine 6y ago
I miss that show!
dmh2000 6y ago
I smell the irony

Symbiote 6y ago

"The data protection law establishes that you have the right not to be subject to a decision based solely on automated means, if the decision produces legal effects concerning you or significantly affects you in a similar way." One of the clauses of the GDPR gives EU residents the right to appeal certain automated decisions that might affect them. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rights-citizens/my-rights/can-i-be-subject-automated-individual-decision-making-including-profiling_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...

mdaniel 6y ago
I'm sorry I didn't see your comment earlier, or I would have linked to yours from mine While I was researching some substantiation for my comment, I noticed that Wikipedia has a citation saying "Why a Right to Explanation of Automated Decision-Making Does Not Exist in the General Data Protection Regulation" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#cite_note-66 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... ) -- any idea if the footnote is outdated, or perhaps the actual statute is more nuanced than one might think?
mr_toad 6y ago
> you have the right not to be subject to a decision based solely on automated means Sounds like traffic lights are illegal in the EU.
- mqus 6y ago
  Well no, because its a general regulation which can be overridden by other more specific laws. But besides that, I think that the scope of the regulation probably doesn't encompass traffic lights (no personal data involved). But I didn't look it up :D
- qayxc 6y ago
  How does that follow? Traffic lights aren't the subject of copyright claims.

jjeaff 6y ago

Actually, I would modify that comparison. More like, imagine if you show up to your storage one day and the lock is changed. You talk to the manager and he says, "you can no longer have access to your items because you have broken one of the rules in our 5,000 page terms of service". "Which rule did I break?", you ask. He answers, "you can no longer have access to your items because you have broken one of the rules in our 5,000 page terms of service." You appeal multiple times and receive the exact same answer with a blank stare from the manager until he says: "you can no longer have access to your items because you have broken one of the rules in our 5,000 page terms of service, this decision is final and no further communication from you will be reviewed." Then he just sits and stares at you blankly like you don't exist, no matter what you say. This is also exactly how Amazon handles shutting down sellers as well.

13415 6y ago
Facebook does the same with ads customers if they think one of their ominous rules has been broken repeatedly. If the algorithm decides so, you can lose the ability to ever run an ad again by logging in from the wrong IP number. Only a law that prohibits or at least severely limits automated handling of customer complaints would help against these practices.
- mdaniel 6y ago
  > Only a law that prohibits or at least severely limits automated handling of customer complaints would help against these practices. I only recently learned that GDPR actually includes such a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Right_to_object_and_automated_decisions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... although a footnote later appears to say "no, it does not" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#cite_note-66 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... so I guess we leave that fight to lawyers There is further commentary elsewhere in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24572144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24572144
hinkley 6y ago
I’m switching to T-Mobile as soon as the next phone is released because something in AT&T’s CRM is broken in such a way that they don’t remember how many times I’ve called them to fix an autopay that’s been broken since I reported my old card lost a year and a half ago. Every person I get on the phone treats me like a child who can’t fill out a support form. So they fill it out for me and no payments are ever done. This is the same card I used to manually pay in their support system, which works. If I pretend not to know when the last time was I contacted them, they can’t tell me. Escalate a ticket, no answer. I’m afraid that whatever is broken will stop the phone number transfer from succeeding.

dalbasal 6y ago

Replace "lock" with digital key and "manager" with "automated email" and this starts to sound like 2027. Kafka, at least, got to talk to a person. OTOH, we get to enjoy our Kafkaesque distopia without having to physically go to some office.