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This is pretty pathetic of Facebook; and they stoop even lower by claiming embattlement solidarity with other businesses because of the pandemic. A lack of saf

This is pretty pathetic of Facebook; and they stoop even lower by claiming embattlement solidarity with other businesses because of the pandemic. A lack of safe, secure and legal international data transfers would damage the economy and hamper the growth of data-driven businesses in the EU, just as we seek a recovery from Covid-19. Clean up your act, or leave the EU data in the EU; we all know you're not going anywhere.

matkoniecz 6y ago
Also, Facebook leaving and creating void would encourage "growth of data-driven businesses in the EU".
Rebelgecko 6y ago
It's definitely an interesting architecture problem. If the EU says that all data related to EU residents has to stay in the EU, what happens if I as an American leave a comment on a post by a friend of mine in Europe? If my interactions with Europeans have to be stored in the EU, will all of my requests have to be served by Facebook servers in the EU? Definitely won't be fun for latency. I don't think that would be an insurmountable problem, but it makes things complicated. Let's make things even more complicated: what if another jurisdiction passes similar rules? Lets say all data pertaining to residents of New Zealand and Australia has to stay in Oceania. How will people in the EU and Oceania be able to interact without running afoul of at least one jurisdiction's rules?
- nickff 6y ago
  There would also be problems when people travel (either as tourists or to permanently move); what happens to their 'old' data, or their 'new' data when/if they travel back? So-called 'edge cases' become big problems when you have a large number of users, and fines/penalties are based on corporate revenues (rather than damages).
- addicted 6y ago
  Those are edge cases that need to be resolved. In many cases there may not be satisfactory resolutions for them. And it’s almost always the case that the law will not punish somebody for an Un implementable regulation if they see that the entity made a reasonable effort to try and follow it. Talking about edge cases is a distraction from the fact that FB is refusing to implement things that are very much not edge cases and do not have fundamental implementation challenges associated with them.
  - dantheman 6y ago
    Those aren't edge cases - that's the core use of the system. I'd say most people have friends in different countries/regions.
- vr46 6y ago
  Cross-jurisdiction issues crop up all the time. Sometimes they must follow the route that provides the most privacy and this is compliant everywhere, sometimes there are trade deals and compromises are made. In a conversation between an American and a German, I would expect the American to get EU levels of protection. This is all pie-in-the-sky though, I’m sure.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    If I'm understanding the article correctly, the problem is that the EU levels of protection give EU datacenters a monopoly on the data. The regulation isn't compatible with other nations passing the same sort of laws. If the US passed a mirroring law in order to protect Americans' data from being spied on by GHCQ, then you have two mutually exclusive privacy regulations. The data can't exist outside of the EU, but the data also can't exist outside of the US. Considering the competing goals (in this hypothetical situation where the US doesn't want Americans being spied on by the EU, and the EU doesn't want Europeans being spied on by the US), I have 0 faith in the governments being able to resolve this balkanization.
    - vr46 6y ago
      Possibly, but I think the key lines are "the US does not limit surveillance of EU citizens" and "there were insufficient safeguards against snooping by US intelligence agencies", which suggests that it's fixable, although the medicine is unpleasant for US-based-whoopee-you-get-free-data-and-you-get-free-data companies; The EU is operating pretty consistently, I'd say. They work like a club with rules that allows anyone to enter provided they follow their rules, and making the club very attractive to join so that entrants willingly make the changes. The US is generally not inclined to take other countries' interests to heart and is not renowned for equitable relationship-building, but it defends its citizens' rights and its companies' rights, so the EU does the same and Facebook blubs, it's just standard business PR.
- eridan2 6y ago
  this is not about comments, it's about a lot of other interactions, many outside Facebook apps and sites - Facebook has info about websites you visited and links you clicked and webpages you liked, and where and when you did that

matkoniecz 6y ago

Also, Facebook leaving and creating void would encourage "growth of data-driven businesses in the EU".

Rebelgecko 6y ago

It's definitely an interesting architecture problem. If the EU says that all data related to EU residents has to stay in the EU, what happens if I as an American leave a comment on a post by a friend of mine in Europe? If my interactions with Europeans have to be stored in the EU, will all of my requests have to be served by Facebook servers in the EU? Definitely won't be fun for latency. I don't think that would be an insurmountable problem, but it makes things complicated. Let's make things even more complicated: what if another jurisdiction passes similar rules? Lets say all data pertaining to residents of New Zealand and Australia has to stay in Oceania. How will people in the EU and Oceania be able to interact without running afoul of at least one jurisdiction's rules?

nickff 6y ago
There would also be problems when people travel (either as tourists or to permanently move); what happens to their 'old' data, or their 'new' data when/if they travel back? So-called 'edge cases' become big problems when you have a large number of users, and fines/penalties are based on corporate revenues (rather than damages).
addicted 6y ago
Those are edge cases that need to be resolved. In many cases there may not be satisfactory resolutions for them. And it’s almost always the case that the law will not punish somebody for an Un implementable regulation if they see that the entity made a reasonable effort to try and follow it. Talking about edge cases is a distraction from the fact that FB is refusing to implement things that are very much not edge cases and do not have fundamental implementation challenges associated with them.
- dantheman 6y ago
  Those aren't edge cases - that's the core use of the system. I'd say most people have friends in different countries/regions.
vr46 6y ago
Cross-jurisdiction issues crop up all the time. Sometimes they must follow the route that provides the most privacy and this is compliant everywhere, sometimes there are trade deals and compromises are made. In a conversation between an American and a German, I would expect the American to get EU levels of protection. This is all pie-in-the-sky though, I’m sure.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  If I'm understanding the article correctly, the problem is that the EU levels of protection give EU datacenters a monopoly on the data. The regulation isn't compatible with other nations passing the same sort of laws. If the US passed a mirroring law in order to protect Americans' data from being spied on by GHCQ, then you have two mutually exclusive privacy regulations. The data can't exist outside of the EU, but the data also can't exist outside of the US. Considering the competing goals (in this hypothetical situation where the US doesn't want Americans being spied on by the EU, and the EU doesn't want Europeans being spied on by the US), I have 0 faith in the governments being able to resolve this balkanization.
  - vr46 6y ago
    Possibly, but I think the key lines are "the US does not limit surveillance of EU citizens" and "there were insufficient safeguards against snooping by US intelligence agencies", which suggests that it's fixable, although the medicine is unpleasant for US-based-whoopee-you-get-free-data-and-you-get-free-data companies; The EU is operating pretty consistently, I'd say. They work like a club with rules that allows anyone to enter provided they follow their rules, and making the club very attractive to join so that entrants willingly make the changes. The US is generally not inclined to take other countries' interests to heart and is not renowned for equitable relationship-building, but it defends its citizens' rights and its companies' rights, so the EU does the same and Facebook blubs, it's just standard business PR.
eridan2 6y ago
this is not about comments, it's about a lot of other interactions, many outside Facebook apps and sites - Facebook has info about websites you visited and links you clicked and webpages you liked, and where and when you did that