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1,433 days since Elon Musk started charging Tesla customers for 'self driving' that he said would be able to drive from Los Angeles to New York city with no hum

1,433 days since Elon Musk started charging Tesla customers for 'self driving' that he said would be able to drive from Los Angeles to New York city with no human intervention by the end of 2017.

rorykoehler 6y ago
Can't you do that now? Edit: https://www.thedrive.com/news/5273/alex-roy-shatters-electric-and-autonomous-cannonball-run-records-in-a-tesla https://www.thedrive.com/news/5273/alex-roy-shatters-electri...
kanox 6y ago
Being late does not make you a fraud. Tesla does have a real team working on self driving hardware and software and they're shipping it inside cars. It's not clear that Nikola has much more than powerpoint. They got a lot of impressive-sounding partnerships going but so did Theranos.
- itsoktocry 6y ago
  >Being late does not make you a fraud. Then you can literally say anything and claim "just not yet!". Amazing people say things like this with a straight face. >It's not clear that Nikola has much more than powerpoint. Nikola has real teams working on real things, too. They are just nowhere near where they claim to be.
  - 52-6F-62 6y ago
    > Then you can literally say anything and claim "just not yet!". To play a little devil's advocate, then... Wouldn't that put most startups and Silicon Valley into the "fraud" camp? Net positive revenue is always coming and funds are continuously raised on that promise...
  - valuearb 6y ago
    When did Elon fake a video of a Tesla autonomously driving cross country?
  - kanox 6y ago
    It's extremely common across all industries for projects to be late or underdeliver. How can you claim with a straight face that this is the same as fraud? > Nikola has real teams working on real things, too. Their technology claims are all over the place and includes a large lineup of electric and hydrogen-powered vehicles that would be impressive even for GM and Ford. I don't think their leadership plans to deliver all of any of those vehicles. Insiders (including Trevor Milton) have cashed out already and it looks more like a pump-and-dump scheme than a real business.
  - jryle70 6y ago
    > Then you can literally say anything and claim "just not yet!". > Amazing people say things like this with a straight face. Then literally everyone who claims breakthrough in fusion, new energy, medicine, AI, robotics, supersonic travel, would qualify as fraud. Fusion has always been X years away after all. You've just also described many space projects, notably JWST and SLS. Granted, I'll give you SLS. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System > Nikola has real teams working on real things, too. They are just nowhere near where they claim to be. The trouble is Trevor didn't just say "just not yet!". He insisted that the Nikola One on stage at their Dec 2016 presentation is real, with this vivid description: "I don’t want someone to end up doing something and driving this truck off the stage…so we’re going to try to keep people from driving off. But this thing fully functions and works, which is really incredible."
ChuckMcM 6y ago
Not to be an apologist for Tesla here, while Elon has made some pretty explicit statements here the ordering page for cars has always said "equipment capability" and pretty accurately described it was the required equipment for when the capability was available. And yes, there is an implicit problem there where you can't definitively know this is all of the equipment you need until the capability is released, but I suspect Tesla would have provided any additional upgrades for free if and when they release "auto-drive." I thought of it kind of like "cable ready" TVs (not that most people reading this would have heard of those :-)) that were TVs that could, in theory, use cable. However, the cable standard wasn't finalized and there was a chance that what came out in the standard would not be compatible with these TVs.
- JamesSwift 6y ago
  Isn't this argument of "technically correct" semantics exactly what Milton argued for the nikola truck rolling down the hill? Why pillory him and not Elon for the same?
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Because there is a difference between misleading people that an empty shell is a functioning truck, and perpetually claiming you are on the verge of fully autonomous driving, when you only achieve mostly autonomous driving.
  - sangnoir 6y ago
    Milton was absolutely, "technically correct": the Nikola truck was in motion (the video was announced as "The Nikola Truck in motion). What you take away and what was said are 2 completely different things, and the message is specifically crafted to do just that.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  > Not to be an apologist for Tesla here, while Elon has made some pretty explicit statements here the ordering page for cars has always said "equipment capability" and pretty accurately described it was the required equipment for when the capability was available. Right, and he's also made explicit statements that you could FSD "by the end of 2016", "by the end of 2018", "by the end of 2020", coast to coast.
jesseb 6y ago
Zero days since somebody brought up Musk in a completely unrelated conversation.
- JamesSwift 6y ago
  Nikola/Milton and Tesla/Musk are inextricably linked. I mean... its even in the name.

1,433 days since Elon Musk started charging Tesla customers for 'self driving' that he said would be able to drive from Los Angeles to New York city with no human intervention by the end of 2017.

rorykoehler 6y ago

Can't you do that now? Edit: https://www.thedrive.com/news/5273/alex-roy-shatters-electric-and-autonomous-cannonball-run-records-in-a-tesla https://www.thedrive.com/news/5273/alex-roy-shatters-electri...

kanox 6y ago

Being late does not make you a fraud. Tesla does have a real team working on self driving hardware and software and they're shipping it inside cars. It's not clear that Nikola has much more than powerpoint. They got a lot of impressive-sounding partnerships going but so did Theranos.

itsoktocry 6y ago
>Being late does not make you a fraud. Then you can literally say anything and claim "just not yet!". Amazing people say things like this with a straight face. >It's not clear that Nikola has much more than powerpoint. Nikola has real teams working on real things, too. They are just nowhere near where they claim to be.
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  > Then you can literally say anything and claim "just not yet!". To play a little devil's advocate, then... Wouldn't that put most startups and Silicon Valley into the "fraud" camp? Net positive revenue is always coming and funds are continuously raised on that promise...
- valuearb 6y ago
  When did Elon fake a video of a Tesla autonomously driving cross country?
- kanox 6y ago
  It's extremely common across all industries for projects to be late or underdeliver. How can you claim with a straight face that this is the same as fraud? > Nikola has real teams working on real things, too. Their technology claims are all over the place and includes a large lineup of electric and hydrogen-powered vehicles that would be impressive even for GM and Ford. I don't think their leadership plans to deliver all of any of those vehicles. Insiders (including Trevor Milton) have cashed out already and it looks more like a pump-and-dump scheme than a real business.
- jryle70 6y ago
  > Then you can literally say anything and claim "just not yet!". > Amazing people say things like this with a straight face. Then literally everyone who claims breakthrough in fusion, new energy, medicine, AI, robotics, supersonic travel, would qualify as fraud. Fusion has always been X years away after all. You've just also described many space projects, notably JWST and SLS. Granted, I'll give you SLS. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System > Nikola has real teams working on real things, too. They are just nowhere near where they claim to be. The trouble is Trevor didn't just say "just not yet!". He insisted that the Nikola One on stage at their Dec 2016 presentation is real, with this vivid description: "I don’t want someone to end up doing something and driving this truck off the stage…so we’re going to try to keep people from driving off. But this thing fully functions and works, which is really incredible."

ChuckMcM 6y ago

Not to be an apologist for Tesla here, while Elon has made some pretty explicit statements here the ordering page for cars has always said "equipment capability" and pretty accurately described it was the required equipment for when the capability was available. And yes, there is an implicit problem there where you can't definitively know this is all of the equipment you need until the capability is released, but I suspect Tesla would have provided any additional upgrades for free if and when they release "auto-drive." I thought of it kind of like "cable ready" TVs (not that most people reading this would have heard of those :-)) that were TVs that could, in theory, use cable. However, the cable standard wasn't finalized and there was a chance that what came out in the standard would not be compatible with these TVs.

JamesSwift 6y ago
Isn't this argument of "technically correct" semantics exactly what Milton argued for the nikola truck rolling down the hill? Why pillory him and not Elon for the same?
- valuearb 6y ago
  Because there is a difference between misleading people that an empty shell is a functioning truck, and perpetually claiming you are on the verge of fully autonomous driving, when you only achieve mostly autonomous driving.
- sangnoir 6y ago
  Milton was absolutely, "technically correct": the Nikola truck was in motion (the video was announced as "The Nikola Truck in motion). What you take away and what was said are 2 completely different things, and the message is specifically crafted to do just that.
FireBeyond 6y ago
> Not to be an apologist for Tesla here, while Elon has made some pretty explicit statements here the ordering page for cars has always said "equipment capability" and pretty accurately described it was the required equipment for when the capability was available. Right, and he's also made explicit statements that you could FSD "by the end of 2016", "by the end of 2018", "by the end of 2020", coast to coast.

jesseb 6y ago

Zero days since somebody brought up Musk in a completely unrelated conversation.

JamesSwift 6y ago
Nikola/Milton and Tesla/Musk are inextricably linked. I mean... its even in the name.