8 ms·

Apple’s dongle problem isn’t getting any better

32 points by elorant 6y ago

bb123 6y ago
That website is not fit for purpose. Between the cookie settings dialog, the (fake) request for notifications and the intrusive ads, I gave up on trying to actually find the content.
Brendinooo 6y ago
These complaints always seem to fade over time. Remember the complaints when Apple switched away from 30-pin, or when they switched away from the floppy? They seem to be right more than they're wrong. Could you imagine a 30-pin (or FireWire port, since that's what preceded 30-pin) on a modern iPhone? The headphone jack could be the most notable exception, though. It predates modern computing and I doubt it'll ever go away unless battery and connectivity tech continues to improve.
_qulr 6y ago
This article is from February 2019
- jwr 6y ago
  It's still very relevant, though, and it's actually an interesting data point that after 1.5 years the situation hasn't changed much. I have very few devices with USB-C connectors, and I have to carry a "dongle bag" with me. And I'm actually happy that so few devices use USB-C, because if they all did, I would only be able to connect 3 of them to my MacBook Pro, because there are no decent USB-C hubs available. I'm also fighting a losing battle with the stupid headphone jack dongles. I would have bought one for every headphone that I have, but I actually need TWO, because I switch between an iPhone and an iPad Pro. Those two dongles look identical and I can't count the number of times I ended up away from home with the wrong one. No end of frustration.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > It's still very relevant Regardless, the submission should have "(2019)" in the title.
  - dep_b 6y ago
    > I have to carry a "dongle bag" with me. I don't get it. Why a separate dongle for everything? I bought a U$50,-- USB-C expander with pass-through charging for MicroSD, 2x USB-A and HDMI. Done. Cheaper than a 2 meter Lightning cable in some places!
    - jwr 6y ago
      I looked into my dongle bag and it contains: a USB-C expander thingy like you described, but with one USB-A. A hub with 4xUSB-A and a USB-C plug. A thumbdrive with both USB-A and USB-C. Two headphone dongles, one for Lightning and one for USB-C. A USB-C to DisplayPort cable for connecting an external monitor. A USB-C-to-C short cable for connecting an external SSD drive, as well as USB-A-to-C adapter for it, for when I have to connect it to a USB-A system. A USB-C to Ethernet adapter. Two tiny C-to-A adapters. In other words, USB-C has added zero value for me, and created a need for plenty of new cables, dongles, and adapters/expanders. Relevant: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/ If my MacBook Pro had HDMI, 2xUSB-A and an SD Card slot, and if phones/ipads had headphone jacks, I could cut the size of the dongle bag by 3/4 at least.
      - dep_b 6y ago
        On my MacBook Pro 2015 I would have needed the dual thumb drive and SSD cables (unless I wanted to use the faster TB2 port, then I needed a third cable), an Ethernet dongle and still some converters for the Lightning EarPods. But disk speeds would be lower and my power cable wouldn’t be universal. I do miss HDMI as well. I have an adapter somewhere but I forget about it until I need it
neurobashing 6y ago
I think Apple is trying to do the "right thing", which is a future entirely of wireless devices, save for power, mostly. The problem (well, one of them) is not everyone wants BT headphones (and AirPods specifically) or some kind of transparent auto-magic network/cloud storage, not every device is suited to wireless connectivity, and there's a long, long tail of existing devices no one wants to re-buy. It's not the floppy drive.
- nguyenkien 6y ago
  And now I have to charge my laptop, phone and now headphone
  - detritus 6y ago
    And, presumably, these daily-used items now have a shorter lifespan unless their batteries can be replaced.
  - taylodl 6y ago
    And your phone and headphones can be charged wirelessly. We are moving toward a world where the only wire you need is for laptop power. I guarantee by 2030 we're going to look back at all of our dongles of today and laugh!
  - neurobashing 6y ago
    yeah, they are also presumably counting on battery technology doing the Moore's Law thing. I didn't say it was a _great_ idea, just guessing at what their vision is.
GavinAnderegg 6y ago
The dongle problem is something that's mostly gone away for me. In my home office, I have an Apple "USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter" that I attach to my laptop, and the USB A port is hooked up to a USB A hub. It lets me plug in one cable to attach to my setup. I also have the same adaptor in my bag when I'm working away from my desk. I've never really run into trouble connecting to anything. I really like this kind of setup, but my needs are pretty modest when it comes to the sorts of things I need to hook up.
- jon-wood 6y ago
  My needs (or at least my wants) are not at all modest, and I wouldn't go back from USB-C without a really good incentive. With two cables plugged into my MacBook it gets: Power 1 43" 4K display 1 27" 2160p display Speakers out Headphone amp out Keyboard Mouse High quality webcam SD card reader Ethernet 8 spare USB ports, most of them USB3 Back in the before times when I travelled into offices for work I was able to sit down at any desk in the office and immediately get access to power, and at least one external display, again by plugging in two cables, and because as a company our IT department has standardised on laptops that support USB-C anybody can do the same, regardless of whether they're running Windows or Mac OS. The transition period to everything supporting USB-C was a bit painful, but I absolutely wouldn't go back to have a hodgepodge of different connectors needed on my laptop.
jrochkind1 6y ago
The article seems to suggest macbooks no longer have headphone jacks? I still have a 2015 MacBook, but when I look at tech specs on the apple store, MacBook Air and Macbook Pro both seem to have 3.5mm headphone jacks? Did they go away on some previous models, then come back? https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/
- samcat116 6y ago
  No they never went away. They did switch sides from the left to the right.
  - test1235 6y ago
    I dunno what the technical reasons for this are, but having a cable snaking around the area where my mouse is, is quite annoying (on any laptop)
  - jrochkind1 6y ago
    Weird. I guess the article didn't say it explicitly, but that's how i interpreted this passage: > And, of course, there's the headphone jack. Unless you're using the Mac Mini or an iMac, if you wanna connect something that isn't USB-C or Lightning, you're out of luck. Enter the dongle. > In 2018, the best-selling Apple products at Best Buy were AirPods and the Lightning-to-3.5 mm dongle. Both of these products exist because Apple got rid of the headphone jack. I guess you can/need to use a lightning-to-3.5mm dongle on an iPhone too, and that's all they meant, not macbooks? The "unless you are using the mac mini or an imac" surrounded on both sides by discussion of headphone jacks is kinda misleading.
- thetinguy 6y ago
  New iPhones come with usb-c cables too.
kogepathic 6y ago
> Apple has a dongle problem. It is not a problem, it's a feature. Apple replaced ports that used to cost them pennies in components for dongles which they can sell to customers for upwards of $50, which can be lost, or which you buy multiples of so you can have one at home, in the office, etc. Unlike previous times in Apple history where they went all-in on a new and not yet widely adopted bus (USB1, FireWire) IMHO this is purely about improving their margins. Remove existing functionality and charge customers more to return to the status quo.
- ConceptJunkie 6y ago
  That's not the only reason. With Apple's almost monomaniacal emphasis on making everything as thin as possible the USB-C ports keep the port from limiting the thickness of the device. I started a new job recently and got a MBP and iPhone, and the number of dongles I've needed is ridiculous. What's most insane is that I can't even use the earbuds that came with the iPhone with the computer. I'm sure there's a dongle for that. Then there's the fact that a few days after I started using the Mac the right ports stopped working with the power cord to charge the machine. I had to do research the find the secret keyboard combination to reset the USB ports. Although Apple's products are generally very good, they have no lack of features and designs that make absolutely no sense to me.
- delfinom 6y ago
  Yep. Same reason why they removed their unit sales numbers from quarterly reports in 2018. Unit sales are down, so they need to pump revenue and profit through more goods and margin
- culturestate 6y ago
  > this is purely about improving their margins...charge customers more to return to the status quo. This argument has never made much sense to me, if only because the amount of money we're talking about is, for Apple, vanishingly small. The Mac is just ~10% of Apple's revenue, of which the "dongle ecosystem" is surely no more than a fraction of a percent. While admittedly not knowing much about how Apple works internally, I would find it easier to believe that they switched to USB-C just because it looks prettier than because they wanted to make an extra $20 million per year on dongle sales.
cwhiz 6y ago
The inconsistency is the most puzzling thing to me. The MacBooks and iPads have all moved to USB-C but the AirPods Pro, a recently released product, is lightning. However, I think the dongle situation is fairly overblown. You don’t have to use dongles or adapters unless you just seriously hate yourself. Get a USB-C hub and plug everything into the hub.
- JoshTko 6y ago
  Airpods pro come with a USB-C to lightning cable.
  - cwhiz 6y ago
    I found that to be an even more annoying attempt at a compromise. It's like Apple heard the complaints but completely misunderstood them.
  - loxs 6y ago
    Isn't this the biggest joke of their doing? :)
- petepete 6y ago
  If you don't sit at a desk all day, it's remembering it that's the problem. Pre-covid I'd often want to plug into a big screen or projector in a meeting room without necessarily having planned to do so beforehand. Built in HDMI was a huge advantage for me. With my MBP it's a problem, with my ThinkPad - not so much.
  - cwhiz 6y ago
    I take the "don't make me think" ethos pretty far in this regard. I keep everything (electronic) I could need for a work trip in my laptop bag. Phone and watch chargers, hubs, AC adapters, etc. I actually prefer USB-C to having a handful of generic plugs. My travel hub has HDMI, DP, VGA, and ethernet. I would be obnoxious to have all those plugs on a laptop.
    - 6y ago
RufusJacksons 6y ago
This article is hyperbolic and angsty. 90% of users in Australia don’t have a need for a dongle, and for those that do, there is a dongle. My iMac at work has a dongle to attach a second monitor via hdmi. My iMac at home does not, I would buy a dongle if needed. My AirPod pros are the best headphones I’ve ever had, would never go back to wired headphones, but if you’re an audiophile - there is a dongle for you. If you use flash drive still, there’s a dongle, or a USB C flash drive. If you need 400 USB ports, there’s a dongle. This doesn’t limit anyone, it’s just turning the devices into more slim lined machines with better IP ratings. 90% of people (made up statistic) are happy with this system, I’m sick of hearing these old codgers dream of the glory days when their thinkpad had 40 ports... buy a thinkpad then ya dangus, why would you buy a Tesla if I want to go rock crawling off road?
- durovo 6y ago
  Most people complaining are those who actually like Apple devices but now have very less choice if they want to stay dongle free. People who buy thinkpads might mock not complain.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jarym 6y ago
It’s frustrating for sure but seemingly not affecting profits so not a problem as far as the business is concerned.
skocznymroczny 6y ago
I got used to the dongles, I just use the threeway adapter (USB-A, charging, hdmi) and USB-c Ethernet card and it's enough for me. I know that people here on HN love bulky machines with lots of ports, such as Thinkpads (especially older variants), but I love a small thin laptop, even if it has lower performance. Also, dongle situation allows me to mix and match which ports I want to actually use, rather than have all of them "just in case".
- ConceptJunkie 6y ago
  That's a different, and perfectly valid, choice. It's not my choice, however. I can't have my choice with Apple, which is why my personal machine is not a Mac.
mark_l_watson 6y ago
I am a happy Apple customer, but I have one complaints: I was very disappointed that my new iPhone and AirPod Pro charging case don’t use USB-C. I would like to travel and use just one type of charger.
- logicOnly 6y ago
  This kind of stuff would drive me crazy. I remember not getting a cellphone years ago because it had a proprietary headphone jack and charger. Headphones were $30+ and I only had 1 charger. I'm just happy capitalism forced almost all companies away from this.
- ubermonkey 6y ago
  They'll get there on this. The trajectory is pretty clear, I think.
- dhagz 6y ago
  Well, the AirPods Pro come with a USB-C-to-Lightning cable. It's not perfect, but you really do only need one type of charger now. And the AirPods don't really need to be charged very often - I usually get by with a 10-day charge cycle.
gempir 6y ago
I always thought the full move to USB-C was the right one. Only someone like Apple could have pulled it off and forced all of their customers to change the way they use their devices but now we are better off because if it. I connect a single USB C Cable to connect 2 extra monitors, mouse, keyboard, ethernet and extra USB ports. This was only possible on proprietary Docks like Dell or Lenovo beforehand. Now even those moved to USB-C Docks and everyone can use most USB-C Docks. Dongles are just for transitioning. Did Apple make a pretty penny on selling you extra crap you didn't need before? Of course they did. But I still prefer USB-C over having a bunch of different ports on a laptop that I have to each connect every time I want to "undock" my laptop. And now those technologies are shared beyond manufacturer lines and you don't have to buy a Dell specific dock.
- checker659 6y ago
  I bought a dock from OWC and I cannot connect the power cable and the HDMI cable at the same time. My mouse stops responding and everything heats up like it's nobody's business. While a single cable connected to a dock is a great idea, in reality, I am left with two three cables on top of a dock.
  - sithadmin 6y ago
    Is it actually a Thunderbolt dock? Your symptoms are pretty typical of the junk USB hubs masquerading as a 'dock'.
    - checker659 6y ago
      Yes, it is a thunderbolt travel dock by Other World Computing (OWC).
- thehm 6y ago
  Docks are just for transitioning. If/when all devices use USB-C you just plug your first monitor in and then use it's USB-C hub to connect all other devices.
thewindowmovie3 6y ago
I recently switched to MacBook when my old ThinkPad gave up. I am regretting the decision now: 1. The dongle problem was one of the first thing i noticed. I tried to use a tplink usb hub which i have been using with my ThinkPad, but MacBook would randomly refuse to detect my keyboard or mouse when walking up from sleep. 2. Window management is bad. Windows solution is so much better. The only solution send to be to buy 3rd party software which emulates Windows OS behaviour. 3. Keyboard is crap (2019 MacBook). There are few good things like the track pad, but honestly at this point ThinkPad + Windows gives a better developer experience than MacBook.
- ubermonkey 6y ago
  I find many folks who dislike Mac's window management paradigm are unaware that there is a keystroke for cycling through app windows: Cmd-~ (tilde). This may help you, or others.
  - tartuffe78 6y ago
    I've been one Macs for 6+ years and this is a new one for me, thanks!
  - thewindowmovie3 6y ago
    From my experience with that shortcut, it does not show the window if it was minimised. The title bar does change to the application name though. Is there a way to maximise the window after switching to it? I also miss ability to snap the window to the left or right of the screen with keyboard shortcut - windows key + arrow keys. Is there a mac equivalent that I am missing?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - ubermonkey 6y ago
      No idea; I generally work on screens so big that any sort of maximization, even partial, is unpalatable. That said, when I did a lot of travel, and worked on my laptop without any external screens, I was a big fan of Divvy (https://mizage.com/divvy/ https://mizage.com/divvy/). Also, here's a list of some keyboard shortcuts that folks may enjoy: https://www.imore.com/manage-your-windows-pro-macos https://www.imore.com/manage-your-windows-pro-macos
djohnston 6y ago
This is just a business model, I think it's going great for Apple
indymike 6y ago
Every device I am currently using is USB-C. It's great. Every charger can charge every device. My displays work with everything, the daily driver Dell, the Macbook for xcode, and even my phone (a Samsung Galaxy S10). The phone is kind of the surprise. Samsung has a feature called Dex that lets you hook up a keyboard, mouse and display and use the phone as a desktop. It's actually pretty useful.
pwinnski 6y ago
The alternative being that Apple must support every port forever? If they were moving from one uncommon proprietary port to another uncommon proprietary port, I'd understand the beef. Most of the issues described in this screed are about "legacy" devices not being connectable via USB-C, though. Which... yeah, that's the issue with older devices. There's 3.5mm audio disappearing in favor of proprietary Lightning, but that's hardly "Apple's dongle problem isn't getting any better." Thanks to widespread uptake of AirPods, that one is getting slightly better. And it's a single dingle, for the subset of iPhone users who use wired audio. Everything else, it's transition. I mean, I'm typing this on a laptop that uses a dongle to connect an external 4K monitor, but that's because the external 4K monitor doesn't do USB-C (or Thunderbolt over USB-C) at least as much as it's because the MacBook doesn't support HDMI. I'm personally not looking forward to the day iPhones switch to USB-C as well, but I know it's coming, and I won't complain too much.
gumby 6y ago
Oh come on: this is just lazy clickbait. People complained about this back when Apple was the first mass market company to go USB. The move to USB Type C connectors is a good one, even if USB consortium continues to shoot itself in the foot with stupid names and lack of labeling (Apple could step up here). Instead of proprietary docks you can plug just one cable in at your desk, then unplug one, gab your laptop and go. Also you can plug your iPad (newer ones) into that same connection.
elondaits 6y ago
I feel these discussions are a bit hyperbolic because of the use of the term "dongle" to talk of adaptors. I know it doesn't make any real difference, but it somehow sounds worse / more complicated.
BasicObject 6y ago
I recently went back to a desktop computer. It solved most of my issues with modern laptops/tablets/phones. While it is not mobile, I find that using a desktop computer for my heavier computing tasks and a tablet for my casual browsing to be the best fit for me. On my desktop I program using a 34" ultrawide which I find very efficient. It's great for photo management, multitasking, movies and games as well. My desktop has plenty of USB ports, speed and best of all IMO I can have the perfect keyboard of my choosing. I know this setup isn't optimal for many but it suits me very well. With many switching to remote work it may become more viable now. YMMV. There's also something to be said about separation of computing tasks and time spent doing them. Use the right tool for the job.
- taylodl 6y ago
  I'm honestly considering doing the same thing. I love my MBP 2012 but it's replacement is really expensive - and if I want to upgrade my capabilities (I have a quad core i7, 16 GB RAM and 512GB SSD) then even more so. I'm considering building a desktop (something I haven't done since the 90's!) and running Ubuntu Studio on it (music & photography are my creative outlets). I found this great site, pcpartpicker.com, that makes it really easy to look at all the parts you need to build your desktop. Between that and an iPad I think I'll be good to go.
  - BasicObject 6y ago
    I bought a System76 Thelio. I just ordered the base model and upgraded the ram and processor. I used to dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 10 on the same drive on a different machine. But not with this. I have the stock Pop_OS on its own drive and Windows on another. Then I use 2 more drives for media storage. It works great. It's fast and I get best of both worlds. I could have built my own but I really like the company's effort to create open hardware. I felt it was something worth supporting. PCPartPicker is a great tool. I encourage you to try a desktop again. Another great reason to go this route is being able to upgrade or simply having the abilty to easily replace parts yourself. Desktops just last longer. Cheers!
throwaway12757 6y ago
I will never buy another apple product because of this. Like if I buy a MBP I want IO, how hard is this to understand. Needless to say my thinkpad x1 carbon is amazing and I will probably be a thinkpad customer for a long time!
acd 6y ago
I have stopped buying some Apple hardware due to the dongles adapters. Carrying adapters makes it more complicated to connect external devices. Plus all adapters creates more electronic waste which is bad for the environment. Thinking lack of 3.5mm headphone jack on iPhones. Lack of hdmi out and no non USB-c ports on mac. So many dongles...
thiht 6y ago
I recently bought a MacBook Pro 2020 (my first Apple product) and although I thought the dongle problem was gonna be a nightmare, it just isn't. I mainly use my laptop as a laptop, with no external monitors so there's that. With my old laptop I used to use a mouse, but the track pad is so good I don't use a mouse anymore, so there's that too. I also have an external hard drive with USB 3 but I just bought a USB C connector that I keep permanently on the drive so it's not an issue either. For this particular usage, it's great.
domano 6y ago
I use a Dell D6000 and just need 1 Type C cable to switch between my Gaming Rig, Macbook Pro and Work Thinkpad. This includes Speakers, seperate Headset, 60Hz 4k, Power Passthrough, Mouse, Keyboard, Wireless Charging Pad and a 5TB USB C HDD. No Problems at all

32 points by elorant 6y ago

That website is not fit for purpose. Between the cookie settings dialog, the (fake) request for notifications and the intrusive ads, I gave up on trying to actually find the content.

Brendinooo 6y ago

These complaints always seem to fade over time. Remember the complaints when Apple switched away from 30-pin, or when they switched away from the floppy? They seem to be right more than they're wrong. Could you imagine a 30-pin (or FireWire port, since that's what preceded 30-pin) on a modern iPhone? The headphone jack could be the most notable exception, though. It predates modern computing and I doubt it'll ever go away unless battery and connectivity tech continues to improve.

_qulr 6y ago

This article is from February 2019

jwr 6y ago
It's still very relevant, though, and it's actually an interesting data point that after 1.5 years the situation hasn't changed much. I have very few devices with USB-C connectors, and I have to carry a "dongle bag" with me. And I'm actually happy that so few devices use USB-C, because if they all did, I would only be able to connect 3 of them to my MacBook Pro, because there are no decent USB-C hubs available. I'm also fighting a losing battle with the stupid headphone jack dongles. I would have bought one for every headphone that I have, but I actually need TWO, because I switch between an iPhone and an iPad Pro. Those two dongles look identical and I can't count the number of times I ended up away from home with the wrong one. No end of frustration.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > It's still very relevant Regardless, the submission should have "(2019)" in the title.
- dep_b 6y ago
  > I have to carry a "dongle bag" with me. I don't get it. Why a separate dongle for everything? I bought a U$50,-- USB-C expander with pass-through charging for MicroSD, 2x USB-A and HDMI. Done. Cheaper than a 2 meter Lightning cable in some places!
  - jwr 6y ago
    I looked into my dongle bag and it contains: a USB-C expander thingy like you described, but with one USB-A. A hub with 4xUSB-A and a USB-C plug. A thumbdrive with both USB-A and USB-C. Two headphone dongles, one for Lightning and one for USB-C. A USB-C to DisplayPort cable for connecting an external monitor. A USB-C-to-C short cable for connecting an external SSD drive, as well as USB-A-to-C adapter for it, for when I have to connect it to a USB-A system. A USB-C to Ethernet adapter. Two tiny C-to-A adapters. In other words, USB-C has added zero value for me, and created a need for plenty of new cables, dongles, and adapters/expanders. Relevant: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/ If my MacBook Pro had HDMI, 2xUSB-A and an SD Card slot, and if phones/ipads had headphone jacks, I could cut the size of the dongle bag by 3/4 at least.
    - dep_b 6y ago
      On my MacBook Pro 2015 I would have needed the dual thumb drive and SSD cables (unless I wanted to use the faster TB2 port, then I needed a third cable), an Ethernet dongle and still some converters for the Lightning EarPods. But disk speeds would be lower and my power cable wouldn’t be universal. I do miss HDMI as well. I have an adapter somewhere but I forget about it until I need it

neurobashing 6y ago

I think Apple is trying to do the "right thing", which is a future entirely of wireless devices, save for power, mostly. The problem (well, one of them) is not everyone wants BT headphones (and AirPods specifically) or some kind of transparent auto-magic network/cloud storage, not every device is suited to wireless connectivity, and there's a long, long tail of existing devices no one wants to re-buy. It's not the floppy drive.

nguyenkien 6y ago
And now I have to charge my laptop, phone and now headphone
- detritus 6y ago
  And, presumably, these daily-used items now have a shorter lifespan unless their batteries can be replaced.
- taylodl 6y ago
  And your phone and headphones can be charged wirelessly. We are moving toward a world where the only wire you need is for laptop power. I guarantee by 2030 we're going to look back at all of our dongles of today and laugh!
- neurobashing 6y ago
  yeah, they are also presumably counting on battery technology doing the Moore's Law thing. I didn't say it was a _great_ idea, just guessing at what their vision is.

GavinAnderegg 6y ago

The dongle problem is something that's mostly gone away for me. In my home office, I have an Apple "USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter" that I attach to my laptop, and the USB A port is hooked up to a USB A hub. It lets me plug in one cable to attach to my setup. I also have the same adaptor in my bag when I'm working away from my desk. I've never really run into trouble connecting to anything. I really like this kind of setup, but my needs are pretty modest when it comes to the sorts of things I need to hook up.

jon-wood 6y ago
My needs (or at least my wants) are not at all modest, and I wouldn't go back from USB-C without a really good incentive. With two cables plugged into my MacBook it gets: Power 1 43" 4K display 1 27" 2160p display Speakers out Headphone amp out Keyboard Mouse High quality webcam SD card reader Ethernet 8 spare USB ports, most of them USB3 Back in the before times when I travelled into offices for work I was able to sit down at any desk in the office and immediately get access to power, and at least one external display, again by plugging in two cables, and because as a company our IT department has standardised on laptops that support USB-C anybody can do the same, regardless of whether they're running Windows or Mac OS. The transition period to everything supporting USB-C was a bit painful, but I absolutely wouldn't go back to have a hodgepodge of different connectors needed on my laptop.

jrochkind1 6y ago

The article seems to suggest macbooks no longer have headphone jacks? I still have a 2015 MacBook, but when I look at tech specs on the apple store, MacBook Air and Macbook Pro both seem to have 3.5mm headphone jacks? Did they go away on some previous models, then come back? https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/

samcat116 6y ago
No they never went away. They did switch sides from the left to the right.
- test1235 6y ago
  I dunno what the technical reasons for this are, but having a cable snaking around the area where my mouse is, is quite annoying (on any laptop)
- jrochkind1 6y ago
  Weird. I guess the article didn't say it explicitly, but that's how i interpreted this passage: > And, of course, there's the headphone jack. Unless you're using the Mac Mini or an iMac, if you wanna connect something that isn't USB-C or Lightning, you're out of luck. Enter the dongle. > In 2018, the best-selling Apple products at Best Buy were AirPods and the Lightning-to-3.5 mm dongle. Both of these products exist because Apple got rid of the headphone jack. I guess you can/need to use a lightning-to-3.5mm dongle on an iPhone too, and that's all they meant, not macbooks? The "unless you are using the mac mini or an imac" surrounded on both sides by discussion of headphone jacks is kinda misleading.
thetinguy 6y ago
New iPhones come with usb-c cables too.

kogepathic 6y ago

> Apple has a dongle problem. It is not a problem, it's a feature. Apple replaced ports that used to cost them pennies in components for dongles which they can sell to customers for upwards of $50, which can be lost, or which you buy multiples of so you can have one at home, in the office, etc. Unlike previous times in Apple history where they went all-in on a new and not yet widely adopted bus (USB1, FireWire) IMHO this is purely about improving their margins. Remove existing functionality and charge customers more to return to the status quo.

ConceptJunkie 6y ago
That's not the only reason. With Apple's almost monomaniacal emphasis on making everything as thin as possible the USB-C ports keep the port from limiting the thickness of the device. I started a new job recently and got a MBP and iPhone, and the number of dongles I've needed is ridiculous. What's most insane is that I can't even use the earbuds that came with the iPhone with the computer. I'm sure there's a dongle for that. Then there's the fact that a few days after I started using the Mac the right ports stopped working with the power cord to charge the machine. I had to do research the find the secret keyboard combination to reset the USB ports. Although Apple's products are generally very good, they have no lack of features and designs that make absolutely no sense to me.
delfinom 6y ago
Yep. Same reason why they removed their unit sales numbers from quarterly reports in 2018. Unit sales are down, so they need to pump revenue and profit through more goods and margin
culturestate 6y ago
> this is purely about improving their margins...charge customers more to return to the status quo. This argument has never made much sense to me, if only because the amount of money we're talking about is, for Apple, vanishingly small. The Mac is just ~10% of Apple's revenue, of which the "dongle ecosystem" is surely no more than a fraction of a percent. While admittedly not knowing much about how Apple works internally, I would find it easier to believe that they switched to USB-C just because it looks prettier than because they wanted to make an extra $20 million per year on dongle sales.

cwhiz 6y ago

The inconsistency is the most puzzling thing to me. The MacBooks and iPads have all moved to USB-C but the AirPods Pro, a recently released product, is lightning. However, I think the dongle situation is fairly overblown. You don’t have to use dongles or adapters unless you just seriously hate yourself. Get a USB-C hub and plug everything into the hub.

JoshTko 6y ago
Airpods pro come with a USB-C to lightning cable.
- cwhiz 6y ago
  I found that to be an even more annoying attempt at a compromise. It's like Apple heard the complaints but completely misunderstood them.
- loxs 6y ago
  Isn't this the biggest joke of their doing? :)
petepete 6y ago
If you don't sit at a desk all day, it's remembering it that's the problem. Pre-covid I'd often want to plug into a big screen or projector in a meeting room without necessarily having planned to do so beforehand. Built in HDMI was a huge advantage for me. With my MBP it's a problem, with my ThinkPad - not so much.
- cwhiz 6y ago
  I take the "don't make me think" ethos pretty far in this regard. I keep everything (electronic) I could need for a work trip in my laptop bag. Phone and watch chargers, hubs, AC adapters, etc. I actually prefer USB-C to having a handful of generic plugs. My travel hub has HDMI, DP, VGA, and ethernet. I would be obnoxious to have all those plugs on a laptop.
  - 6y ago

RufusJacksons 6y ago

This article is hyperbolic and angsty. 90% of users in Australia don’t have a need for a dongle, and for those that do, there is a dongle. My iMac at work has a dongle to attach a second monitor via hdmi. My iMac at home does not, I would buy a dongle if needed. My AirPod pros are the best headphones I’ve ever had, would never go back to wired headphones, but if you’re an audiophile - there is a dongle for you. If you use flash drive still, there’s a dongle, or a USB C flash drive. If you need 400 USB ports, there’s a dongle. This doesn’t limit anyone, it’s just turning the devices into more slim lined machines with better IP ratings. 90% of people (made up statistic) are happy with this system, I’m sick of hearing these old codgers dream of the glory days when their thinkpad had 40 ports... buy a thinkpad then ya dangus, why would you buy a Tesla if I want to go rock crawling off road?

durovo 6y ago
Most people complaining are those who actually like Apple devices but now have very less choice if they want to stay dongle free. People who buy thinkpads might mock not complain.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jarym 6y ago

It’s frustrating for sure but seemingly not affecting profits so not a problem as far as the business is concerned.

skocznymroczny 6y ago

I got used to the dongles, I just use the threeway adapter (USB-A, charging, hdmi) and USB-c Ethernet card and it's enough for me. I know that people here on HN love bulky machines with lots of ports, such as Thinkpads (especially older variants), but I love a small thin laptop, even if it has lower performance. Also, dongle situation allows me to mix and match which ports I want to actually use, rather than have all of them "just in case".

ConceptJunkie 6y ago
That's a different, and perfectly valid, choice. It's not my choice, however. I can't have my choice with Apple, which is why my personal machine is not a Mac.

mark_l_watson 6y ago

I am a happy Apple customer, but I have one complaints: I was very disappointed that my new iPhone and AirPod Pro charging case don’t use USB-C. I would like to travel and use just one type of charger.

logicOnly 6y ago
This kind of stuff would drive me crazy. I remember not getting a cellphone years ago because it had a proprietary headphone jack and charger. Headphones were $30+ and I only had 1 charger. I'm just happy capitalism forced almost all companies away from this.
ubermonkey 6y ago
They'll get there on this. The trajectory is pretty clear, I think.
dhagz 6y ago
Well, the AirPods Pro come with a USB-C-to-Lightning cable. It's not perfect, but you really do only need one type of charger now. And the AirPods don't really need to be charged very often - I usually get by with a 10-day charge cycle.

gempir 6y ago

I always thought the full move to USB-C was the right one. Only someone like Apple could have pulled it off and forced all of their customers to change the way they use their devices but now we are better off because if it. I connect a single USB C Cable to connect 2 extra monitors, mouse, keyboard, ethernet and extra USB ports. This was only possible on proprietary Docks like Dell or Lenovo beforehand. Now even those moved to USB-C Docks and everyone can use most USB-C Docks. Dongles are just for transitioning. Did Apple make a pretty penny on selling you extra crap you didn't need before? Of course they did. But I still prefer USB-C over having a bunch of different ports on a laptop that I have to each connect every time I want to "undock" my laptop. And now those technologies are shared beyond manufacturer lines and you don't have to buy a Dell specific dock.

checker659 6y ago
I bought a dock from OWC and I cannot connect the power cable and the HDMI cable at the same time. My mouse stops responding and everything heats up like it's nobody's business. While a single cable connected to a dock is a great idea, in reality, I am left with two three cables on top of a dock.
- sithadmin 6y ago
  Is it actually a Thunderbolt dock? Your symptoms are pretty typical of the junk USB hubs masquerading as a 'dock'.
  - checker659 6y ago
    Yes, it is a thunderbolt travel dock by Other World Computing (OWC).
thehm 6y ago
Docks are just for transitioning. If/when all devices use USB-C you just plug your first monitor in and then use it's USB-C hub to connect all other devices.

thewindowmovie3 6y ago

I recently switched to MacBook when my old ThinkPad gave up. I am regretting the decision now: 1. The dongle problem was one of the first thing i noticed. I tried to use a tplink usb hub which i have been using with my ThinkPad, but MacBook would randomly refuse to detect my keyboard or mouse when walking up from sleep. 2. Window management is bad. Windows solution is so much better. The only solution send to be to buy 3rd party software which emulates Windows OS behaviour. 3. Keyboard is crap (2019 MacBook). There are few good things like the track pad, but honestly at this point ThinkPad + Windows gives a better developer experience than MacBook.

ubermonkey 6y ago
I find many folks who dislike Mac's window management paradigm are unaware that there is a keystroke for cycling through app windows: Cmd-~ (tilde). This may help you, or others.
- tartuffe78 6y ago
  I've been one Macs for 6+ years and this is a new one for me, thanks!
- thewindowmovie3 6y ago
  From my experience with that shortcut, it does not show the window if it was minimised. The title bar does change to the application name though. Is there a way to maximise the window after switching to it? I also miss ability to snap the window to the left or right of the screen with keyboard shortcut - windows key + arrow keys. Is there a mac equivalent that I am missing?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ubermonkey 6y ago
    No idea; I generally work on screens so big that any sort of maximization, even partial, is unpalatable. That said, when I did a lot of travel, and worked on my laptop without any external screens, I was a big fan of Divvy (https://mizage.com/divvy/ https://mizage.com/divvy/). Also, here's a list of some keyboard shortcuts that folks may enjoy: https://www.imore.com/manage-your-windows-pro-macos https://www.imore.com/manage-your-windows-pro-macos

djohnston 6y ago

This is just a business model, I think it's going great for Apple

indymike 6y ago

Every device I am currently using is USB-C. It's great. Every charger can charge every device. My displays work with everything, the daily driver Dell, the Macbook for xcode, and even my phone (a Samsung Galaxy S10). The phone is kind of the surprise. Samsung has a feature called Dex that lets you hook up a keyboard, mouse and display and use the phone as a desktop. It's actually pretty useful.

pwinnski 6y ago

The alternative being that Apple must support every port forever? If they were moving from one uncommon proprietary port to another uncommon proprietary port, I'd understand the beef. Most of the issues described in this screed are about "legacy" devices not being connectable via USB-C, though. Which... yeah, that's the issue with older devices. There's 3.5mm audio disappearing in favor of proprietary Lightning, but that's hardly "Apple's dongle problem isn't getting any better." Thanks to widespread uptake of AirPods, that one is getting slightly better. And it's a single dingle, for the subset of iPhone users who use wired audio. Everything else, it's transition. I mean, I'm typing this on a laptop that uses a dongle to connect an external 4K monitor, but that's because the external 4K monitor doesn't do USB-C (or Thunderbolt over USB-C) at least as much as it's because the MacBook doesn't support HDMI. I'm personally not looking forward to the day iPhones switch to USB-C as well, but I know it's coming, and I won't complain too much.

gumby 6y ago

Oh come on: this is just lazy clickbait. People complained about this back when Apple was the first mass market company to go USB. The move to USB Type C connectors is a good one, even if USB consortium continues to shoot itself in the foot with stupid names and lack of labeling (Apple could step up here). Instead of proprietary docks you can plug just one cable in at your desk, then unplug one, gab your laptop and go. Also you can plug your iPad (newer ones) into that same connection.

elondaits 6y ago

I feel these discussions are a bit hyperbolic because of the use of the term "dongle" to talk of adaptors. I know it doesn't make any real difference, but it somehow sounds worse / more complicated.

BasicObject 6y ago

I recently went back to a desktop computer. It solved most of my issues with modern laptops/tablets/phones. While it is not mobile, I find that using a desktop computer for my heavier computing tasks and a tablet for my casual browsing to be the best fit for me. On my desktop I program using a 34" ultrawide which I find very efficient. It's great for photo management, multitasking, movies and games as well. My desktop has plenty of USB ports, speed and best of all IMO I can have the perfect keyboard of my choosing. I know this setup isn't optimal for many but it suits me very well. With many switching to remote work it may become more viable now. YMMV. There's also something to be said about separation of computing tasks and time spent doing them. Use the right tool for the job.

taylodl 6y ago
I'm honestly considering doing the same thing. I love my MBP 2012 but it's replacement is really expensive - and if I want to upgrade my capabilities (I have a quad core i7, 16 GB RAM and 512GB SSD) then even more so. I'm considering building a desktop (something I haven't done since the 90's!) and running Ubuntu Studio on it (music & photography are my creative outlets). I found this great site, pcpartpicker.com, that makes it really easy to look at all the parts you need to build your desktop. Between that and an iPad I think I'll be good to go.
- BasicObject 6y ago
  I bought a System76 Thelio. I just ordered the base model and upgraded the ram and processor. I used to dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 10 on the same drive on a different machine. But not with this. I have the stock Pop_OS on its own drive and Windows on another. Then I use 2 more drives for media storage. It works great. It's fast and I get best of both worlds. I could have built my own but I really like the company's effort to create open hardware. I felt it was something worth supporting. PCPartPicker is a great tool. I encourage you to try a desktop again. Another great reason to go this route is being able to upgrade or simply having the abilty to easily replace parts yourself. Desktops just last longer. Cheers!

throwaway12757 6y ago

I will never buy another apple product because of this. Like if I buy a MBP I want IO, how hard is this to understand. Needless to say my thinkpad x1 carbon is amazing and I will probably be a thinkpad customer for a long time!

acd 6y ago

I have stopped buying some Apple hardware due to the dongles adapters. Carrying adapters makes it more complicated to connect external devices. Plus all adapters creates more electronic waste which is bad for the environment. Thinking lack of 3.5mm headphone jack on iPhones. Lack of hdmi out and no non USB-c ports on mac. So many dongles...

thiht 6y ago

I recently bought a MacBook Pro 2020 (my first Apple product) and although I thought the dongle problem was gonna be a nightmare, it just isn't. I mainly use my laptop as a laptop, with no external monitors so there's that. With my old laptop I used to use a mouse, but the track pad is so good I don't use a mouse anymore, so there's that too. I also have an external hard drive with USB 3 but I just bought a USB C connector that I keep permanently on the drive so it's not an issue either. For this particular usage, it's great.

domano 6y ago

I use a Dell D6000 and just need 1 Type C cable to switch between my Gaming Rig, Macbook Pro and Work Thinkpad. This includes Speakers, seperate Headset, 60Hz 4k, Power Passthrough, Mouse, Keyboard, Wireless Charging Pad and a 5TB USB C HDD. No Problems at all