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Even if you agree that China needs to be checked in its aggressive use of technology for state purposes (which I partly agree with, but not without saying that

Even if you agree that China needs to be checked in its aggressive use of technology for state purposes (which I partly agree with, but not without saying that the US is not innocent of that activity either), at least let's not be naive about it. Don't think that the banning of apps was a well-reasoned decision with careful justification about the causes, potential, solutions, and impacts on US economics and society. It was a guy asking "what can we do to create some leverage over this adversary I don't like? (and was just told about yesterday)" Don't deceive yourself that this is some step in a principled fight. If it were that, we'd have slapped tariffs/embargoes and more on Russia a couple of years ago. We'd be implementing measures against Venezuela, Myanmar, North Korea, a whole host of countries doing similar or worse. I haven't heard a peep about those. It's not good when government operates on a whim. The same hammer may swing against you next time, with equally poor justification, which you created support for. Don't deceive yourself about what principle (and person) you're getting behind.

adventured 6y ago
Uh, what? > Don't deceive yourself that this is some step in a principled fight. If it were that, we'd have slapped tariffs/embargoes and more on Russia a couple of years ago. We'd be implementing measures against Venezuela, Myanmar, North Korea, a whole host of countries doing similar or worse. I haven't heard a peep about those. We have been doing that. It has been widely covered by every major media outlet in the West for years, including: NY Times, Washington Post, Reuters, AP, BBC, NPR, Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, Sky News, Bloomberg, and on it goes. There is a massive US economic blockade effort against North Korea, and the North Koreans have been flipping out about it 24/7 for years. It has been in the news non-stop for years in relation to North Korea. The US has been routinely conflicting with China about maintaining their side of the enforcement related to that effort. In fact, the US economic blockade of North Korea has caused so much damage to their country, it has prompted cannibalism inside of North Korea and at times risked mass famine. If anything the US should probably consider backing off its extreme blockade of North Korea, rather than risk pushing them into actual widespread famine, given their instability and nuclear weapons. The US has crushed the Iranian economy with its economic blockade on them, reducing oil exports by 80-90%. It sent inflation skyrocketing and prompted mass civilian revolt, which then prompted the Iranian Government to murder thousands of protestors in 2019. The US has recently come close to military conflict to enforce its economic blockade against Venezuela and its energy industry. The US economic blockade of Venezuela has destroyed their energy industry, bringing their energy exports to barely a trickle. That also has been very widely in the news. And the US has heavily sanctioned Russia, along with going very far out of its way to try to harm Russia's energy interests, eg by trying to stop Nord Stream 2. In fact the US has been borderline belligerent on that matter, coming close to pissing off its European allies in the process.
- xibalba 6y ago
  Setting aside issues of morality and law, these actions taken by the US Gov are bound to cause blowback. It would seem that you cannot intervene and not also eventually experience negative and unintended consequences.
  - dionian 6y ago
    Doing nothing to counter China is even stupider.
    - xibalba 6y ago
      Most likely, yes. But we don't live in a consequence-free world. Actions have reactions. Is the US playing checkers or chess?
ardit33 6y ago
Looks like you have no clue Of foreign relations. US has sanctions on both countries and individuals/leaders of certain countries. That, can applies to companies as well. I am Albanian, and I know the US has sanctioned 17 former gov. Officials that were insanely corrupt and that even their families can’t enter Or do burins in the US. this was a Obama era law.
resfirestar 6y ago
This is not about state control of technology in that sense, that’s just a propaganda line intended for people who can’t understand the economic stakes. All the politicians who want massive expansion of US government surveillance also support getting “tougher on China”, after all. This app fight is primarily about punishing China for keeping US apps out of their market for reasons that at this point should be understood as purely protectionist (after all, Facebook and Google are on the record as willing to give up every “principle” they claim to have if they can get into China, yet China won’t take the deal). So the US has decided to play the same game as China and force foreign software companies to set up local operations with politically favored partners, like major Republican Party donor Oracle, which keeps more profits here, encourages them to work with US companies instead of Chinese ones to support their US operations, and can also ensure our local tech industry doesn’t fall to far behind in any area the government deems to be important.

adventured 6y ago

Uh, what? > Don't deceive yourself that this is some step in a principled fight. If it were that, we'd have slapped tariffs/embargoes and more on Russia a couple of years ago. We'd be implementing measures against Venezuela, Myanmar, North Korea, a whole host of countries doing similar or worse. I haven't heard a peep about those. We have been doing that. It has been widely covered by every major media outlet in the West for years, including: NY Times, Washington Post, Reuters, AP, BBC, NPR, Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, Sky News, Bloomberg, and on it goes. There is a massive US economic blockade effort against North Korea, and the North Koreans have been flipping out about it 24/7 for years. It has been in the news non-stop for years in relation to North Korea. The US has been routinely conflicting with China about maintaining their side of the enforcement related to that effort. In fact, the US economic blockade of North Korea has caused so much damage to their country, it has prompted cannibalism inside of North Korea and at times risked mass famine. If anything the US should probably consider backing off its extreme blockade of North Korea, rather than risk pushing them into actual widespread famine, given their instability and nuclear weapons. The US has crushed the Iranian economy with its economic blockade on them, reducing oil exports by 80-90%. It sent inflation skyrocketing and prompted mass civilian revolt, which then prompted the Iranian Government to murder thousands of protestors in 2019. The US has recently come close to military conflict to enforce its economic blockade against Venezuela and its energy industry. The US economic blockade of Venezuela has destroyed their energy industry, bringing their energy exports to barely a trickle. That also has been very widely in the news. And the US has heavily sanctioned Russia, along with going very far out of its way to try to harm Russia's energy interests, eg by trying to stop Nord Stream 2. In fact the US has been borderline belligerent on that matter, coming close to pissing off its European allies in the process.

xibalba 6y ago
Setting aside issues of morality and law, these actions taken by the US Gov are bound to cause blowback. It would seem that you cannot intervene and not also eventually experience negative and unintended consequences.
- dionian 6y ago
  Doing nothing to counter China is even stupider.
  - xibalba 6y ago
    Most likely, yes. But we don't live in a consequence-free world. Actions have reactions. Is the US playing checkers or chess?

ardit33 6y ago

Looks like you have no clue Of foreign relations. US has sanctions on both countries and individuals/leaders of certain countries. That, can applies to companies as well. I am Albanian, and I know the US has sanctioned 17 former gov. Officials that were insanely corrupt and that even their families can’t enter Or do burins in the US. this was a Obama era law.

resfirestar 6y ago

This is not about state control of technology in that sense, that’s just a propaganda line intended for people who can’t understand the economic stakes. All the politicians who want massive expansion of US government surveillance also support getting “tougher on China”, after all. This app fight is primarily about punishing China for keeping US apps out of their market for reasons that at this point should be understood as purely protectionist (after all, Facebook and Google are on the record as willing to give up every “principle” they claim to have if they can get into China, yet China won’t take the deal). So the US has decided to play the same game as China and force foreign software companies to set up local operations with politically favored partners, like major Republican Party donor Oracle, which keeps more profits here, encourages them to work with US companies instead of Chinese ones to support their US operations, and can also ensure our local tech industry doesn’t fall to far behind in any area the government deems to be important.