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"The difference between TikTok and WeChat and FB/Google/Twitter is obvious: the former are to some degree controlled by China and the latter are private entitie

"The difference between TikTok and WeChat and FB/Google/Twitter is obvious: the former are to some degree controlled by China and the latter are private entities." I think that difference is not that wide as people believe. Throwing money into advertising on any platform will get you close or beyond ideological subversion or active measures. All you have to do is look at the radicalization and the polarization of left and right in the US and you will see you don't need a state controlled entity at all.

annexrichmond 6y ago
I agree, these are problems. But at least in the US we can continue to pass legislation as we learn more about how to properly regulate these platforms It is much easier to enforce laws on a US-based company than a foreign one.
- TaylorAlexander 6y ago
  How will passing laws help us when our own government is breaking privacy laws for their mass surveillance programs?
- dontcarethrow2 6y ago
  In the US we pass legislation in favor of these big corps to continue to grow, but its all good since they are US companies, they should decide our laws. What a joke. We don't control the policy makers, they are owned by your big corp. Yeah, super easy. I'd rather the state decide laws and not your entitled CEO. Delusional democracy.
- bmitc 6y ago
  > But at least in the US we can continue to pass legislation as we learn more about how to properly regulate these platforms Continue is the wrong word. Nothing is done by legislation or these companies themselves to properly regulate these platforms. There is also nothing preventing foreign influence on U.S.-based company platforms, which is already happening, and has been happening, unchecked. I have used WeChat daily for over three years. There is not a single instance in which I have been unduly influenced. I use it to message, video chat, and pay for things. That simply is not true for YouTube, Twitter, Google, Apple, etc. I can't even go to YouTube without having unremovable, unhidable ads for Trump. We also have a situation where the sitting president has rented out the YouTube homepage for an entire week prior to the election. It's naivety, and frankly delusional, to think the U.S. is somehow at threat by WeChat and not the multitude of sly behavior going on with U.S.-based companies. U.S.-based companies and culture have long been driven by highly concentrated special interest groups, from Hollywood to Wall Street to Silicon Valley, and all of this amounts to undue influence and control upon the American people, who have been manipulated into playing the game.
  - YarickR2 6y ago
    I wonder why are you being downvoted. Uncomfortable truth, I guess
djsumdog 6y ago
With chat programs, the concern is over monitoring. The US can issue warrants to get your chat records from Messenger/Hangouts. Those warrants are obtained a bit too easily due to FISA/Security Letters, but that's another due process issue/policy issue. With Chinese companies, they don't even need the illusion of warrants or due process. FB/Twitter/Tiktok are different because they control WHAT you see. None of them show things chronologically. Their algorithms show things that are popular, and the weights they use are trade secrets. Being able to influence ideas takes classic advertising, or even targeted advertising, to an entirely new level. It has an entirely different set of legal and ethical challenges.
- abc-xyz 6y ago
  Tencent/WeChat also control what you see in your feeds. I often notice when I share information/pictures related to Hong Kong/Xinjiang then my posts doesn’t always appear in my friends feeds (because the image hash/phrase cause the post to be shadowbanned). Their approach is quite evil because it will make you think people might not like your post (since they don’t “like” it) when in fact they simply can’t see it. To bypass the filter then I slightly modify images to change their hash, or record video of the video/image/text. Maybe soon they’ll start making fake likes from friends so that people can’t use inactivity as a way of detecting shadowbans, or maybe they’ll make the posts only visible to a small subset of friends.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    Interesting. For Facebook/Twitter, if you don't interact and only post occasionally, few people will see your posts (which the opposite of someone in real life who rarely talks; when they do, people tend to listen). I wrote a post about it: https://battlepenguin.com/tech/facebook-and-the-silent-bob-effect/ https://battlepenguin.com/tech/facebook-and-the-silent-bob-e...
leric 6y ago
Exactly, that is how Chinese gov take control of your mainstream media and social media, it's much cheaper easier than building aircraft carriers, and more effective.
- pishpash 6y ago
  Your McCarthyist fear and paranoia and the President's cynical manipulation of the same don't trump people's First Amendment rights. The court upheld that principle, thankfully.

annexrichmond 6y ago

I agree, these are problems. But at least in the US we can continue to pass legislation as we learn more about how to properly regulate these platforms It is much easier to enforce laws on a US-based company than a foreign one.

TaylorAlexander 6y ago
How will passing laws help us when our own government is breaking privacy laws for their mass surveillance programs?
dontcarethrow2 6y ago
In the US we pass legislation in favor of these big corps to continue to grow, but its all good since they are US companies, they should decide our laws. What a joke. We don't control the policy makers, they are owned by your big corp. Yeah, super easy. I'd rather the state decide laws and not your entitled CEO. Delusional democracy.
bmitc 6y ago
> But at least in the US we can continue to pass legislation as we learn more about how to properly regulate these platforms Continue is the wrong word. Nothing is done by legislation or these companies themselves to properly regulate these platforms. There is also nothing preventing foreign influence on U.S.-based company platforms, which is already happening, and has been happening, unchecked. I have used WeChat daily for over three years. There is not a single instance in which I have been unduly influenced. I use it to message, video chat, and pay for things. That simply is not true for YouTube, Twitter, Google, Apple, etc. I can't even go to YouTube without having unremovable, unhidable ads for Trump. We also have a situation where the sitting president has rented out the YouTube homepage for an entire week prior to the election. It's naivety, and frankly delusional, to think the U.S. is somehow at threat by WeChat and not the multitude of sly behavior going on with U.S.-based companies. U.S.-based companies and culture have long been driven by highly concentrated special interest groups, from Hollywood to Wall Street to Silicon Valley, and all of this amounts to undue influence and control upon the American people, who have been manipulated into playing the game.
- YarickR2 6y ago
  I wonder why are you being downvoted. Uncomfortable truth, I guess

djsumdog 6y ago

With chat programs, the concern is over monitoring. The US can issue warrants to get your chat records from Messenger/Hangouts. Those warrants are obtained a bit too easily due to FISA/Security Letters, but that's another due process issue/policy issue. With Chinese companies, they don't even need the illusion of warrants or due process. FB/Twitter/Tiktok are different because they control WHAT you see. None of them show things chronologically. Their algorithms show things that are popular, and the weights they use are trade secrets. Being able to influence ideas takes classic advertising, or even targeted advertising, to an entirely new level. It has an entirely different set of legal and ethical challenges.

abc-xyz 6y ago
Tencent/WeChat also control what you see in your feeds. I often notice when I share information/pictures related to Hong Kong/Xinjiang then my posts doesn’t always appear in my friends feeds (because the image hash/phrase cause the post to be shadowbanned). Their approach is quite evil because it will make you think people might not like your post (since they don’t “like” it) when in fact they simply can’t see it. To bypass the filter then I slightly modify images to change their hash, or record video of the video/image/text. Maybe soon they’ll start making fake likes from friends so that people can’t use inactivity as a way of detecting shadowbans, or maybe they’ll make the posts only visible to a small subset of friends.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  Interesting. For Facebook/Twitter, if you don't interact and only post occasionally, few people will see your posts (which the opposite of someone in real life who rarely talks; when they do, people tend to listen). I wrote a post about it: https://battlepenguin.com/tech/facebook-and-the-silent-bob-effect/ https://battlepenguin.com/tech/facebook-and-the-silent-bob-e...

leric 6y ago

Exactly, that is how Chinese gov take control of your mainstream media and social media, it's much cheaper easier than building aircraft carriers, and more effective.

pishpash 6y ago
Your McCarthyist fear and paranoia and the President's cynical manipulation of the same don't trump people's First Amendment rights. The court upheld that principle, thankfully.