5 ms·

You're just tone policing here. You should engage with the actual subject of the discussion, or say nothing at all. People aren't unemotional robots, and thus

by pftf 6y ago

You're just tone policing here. You should engage with the actual subject of the discussion, or say nothing at all. People aren't unemotional robots, and thus don't always conform to prejudices on what constitutes the 'correct' tone. It's more useful to criticize the substance of a persons words, not how they choose to express them.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I was explaining the issue to the commenter, since they seemed to be expressing honest confusion about why their comment comes across as incendiary. I certainly agree it's better to avoid engaging with inflammatory rhetoric, but we shouldn't let that become a refusal to help people moderate their tone when they don't mean to give offense.
- fit2rule 6y ago
  I couldn't care a fig for tone policing. You should be getting challenged on this subject, if you think its something that we should be more 'mild mannered' about. Genocide is happening, for fucks sake. CIA has 2000 secret torture/rendition sites. Is that really something you want people to be using 'inclusive language' to describe? Perhaps you should have a session with the "empathy police". Iraq lost 5% of its population because of these heinous criminal liars that still run America today. Thank goodness for Assange, letting the free world know! America is bombing the fuck out of the world, and expects to be getting away with it - and the message in lobotomising Assange, is to let you and me know that we better not be trying to discuss this fact. FUCK THAT. Get mad about what is being done to Julian Assange - because we are next.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I don't think there's some blanket obligation to be mild mannered. By all means, use incisive language to describe bad things! The problem is with passages like > but yeah, drop the ol' "Ma' Russians!" into the conversations, and heads explode. This isn't an attempt to vividly illustrate the problem or an expression of righteous anger. It's just trolling - it accomplishes nothing but inciting people to yell back at you.
    - newen 6y ago
      It’s fact isn’t it? The US government as well as Americans themselves regularly use crimes done by Russia and China to distract from crimes done by their own government.
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    Genocide is not happening. You won’t be taken seriously if you make such claims.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      Why is it always brown people whose blood and bones are ground up in the gristmill of the American war machine? Doesn't that seem just a bit genocidal? Even in places like Latin America where the reptiles could choose among a variety of races as collaborators in their monstrous schemes, they somehow always ally with white people to kill indigenous people. This is going on right now in Bolivia, and Venezuela has had this potential for a long time, but historically one must take care to find an uncolored spot on the map. [0] No one in this thread cares to "be taken seriously" by those who don't acknowledge recent history. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      > Genocide is not happening Not, it is not. In any case, having 201.000 Americans killed in less than a year (after being goose-feeded with fake news to ignore the danger), does not feel like an improvement over the classical stuff. (Without forgetting the rest of covid's victims, of course).
    - dang 6y ago
      It looks like you've been using HN primarily (if not exclusively) for political battle. That's against the site guidelines and we ban accounts that do it, because it moves this place in exactly the opposite direction we want it to go. HN is supposed to be for curious conversation. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended, we'd appreciate it. If you want more explanation about how we moderate this, see https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... and https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
  - dang 6y ago
    We've had to ask you more than once before to stop doing this sort of flamewar on HN. If you keep doing it, we're going to have to ban you. I'm not going to ban you right now because you posted about octopuses and mopeds recently. But it's not acceptable to flame up the threads like this, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - fit2rule 6y ago
      dang - I mean this sincerely: You've got to find a way to hold a conversation about America's war crimes, and its very real crimes against humanity, without violent repression of speech - which is what your threats of account removal amount to. This story is extremely relevant to your readership. The title of this HN story is "Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial", and here you are, dang, threatening to ban me for discussing America's war crimes, the very ones which were revealed to the world by Julian Assange. You are LITERALLY using the very same playbook as Judge Baraitser: "America's crimes against humanity, its war crimes, and its criminal behaviour: SHALL NOT BE DISCUSSED OPENLY IN PUBLIC because: its too scary to the readership". Yes, America's war crimes are scary. But no matter what you do, they're not going away. You must be prepared to discuss this and to maintain community while it is discussed, openly and honestly, in your forum. The HN community are extremely relevant to this discussion. Dissuading open discussion about America's horrendous war crimes and diverting attention away from them is complicity. I'm sure there is a story to be told about how HN censors stories critical of its military industrial masters. In fact, we can follow the money and come up with a very interesting question: * What is Y-combinators/HN's connection with the KSA and how does that effect HN's reporting around the current genocide of Yemen? * Perhaps we will read about it in future Wikileaks, or whatever cool tech news site that comes along to replace the smouldering pile of rubble that HN is inevitably to become, as a result of its administrators cowardice... In the meantime, since you have made comments designed to intimidate me based on personally identifiable information I have posted on your web site: I am hereby requesting immediate erasure of personal data concerning me according to Article 17 GDPR. Please erase all personal data concerning me as defined by Article 4(1) GDPR. Please delete the following personal data concerning me: all comments posted to the HN site under the 'fit2rule' account name. I am of the opinion that the requirements set forth in Article 17(1) GDPR are fulfilled. You cannot claim an expection based on Article 17(3) GDPR either, particularly as I am not a public figure. If I have given consent to the processing of my personal data (e.g. according to Article 6(1) or Article 9(2) GDPR), I am hereby withdrawing said consent for the entire process. In addition, I am objecting to the processing of personal data concerning me (which includes profiling), according to Article 21 GDPR. I request that you restrict the processing of the data concerning me pending the verification whether your legitimate grounds override mine, pursuant to Art. 18(1)(d) GDPR. If you have made the aforementioned data public, you are obliged pursuant to Article 17(2) GDPR to take all reasonable steps to inform other controllers, including search engine operators, who process the personal data listed above, that I have requested the erasure of all links, copies or replications. This applies not only to exact copies of the data concerned, but also to those from which information contained in the data concerned can be derived. In case you have disclosed the affected personal data to third parties, you have to communicate my request for erasure of the affected personal data, as well as any references to it, to each recipient as laid down in Article 19 GDPR. Please also inform me about those recipients. If you object to the requested erasure, you have to justify that to me. My request explicitly includes any other services and companies for which you are the controller as defined by Article 4(7) GDPR. As laid down in Article 12(3) GDPR, you have to confirm the erasure to me without undue delay and in any event within one month of receipt of the request. I am including the following information necessary to identify me: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=fit2rule https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=fit2rule If you do not answer my request within the stated period, I am reserving the right to take legal action against you and to lodge a complaint with the responsible supervisory authority.

by pftf 6y ago

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

I was explaining the issue to the commenter, since they seemed to be expressing honest confusion about why their comment comes across as incendiary. I certainly agree it's better to avoid engaging with inflammatory rhetoric, but we shouldn't let that become a refusal to help people moderate their tone when they don't mean to give offense.

fit2rule 6y ago
I couldn't care a fig for tone policing. You should be getting challenged on this subject, if you think its something that we should be more 'mild mannered' about. Genocide is happening, for fucks sake. CIA has 2000 secret torture/rendition sites. Is that really something you want people to be using 'inclusive language' to describe? Perhaps you should have a session with the "empathy police". Iraq lost 5% of its population because of these heinous criminal liars that still run America today. Thank goodness for Assange, letting the free world know! America is bombing the fuck out of the world, and expects to be getting away with it - and the message in lobotomising Assange, is to let you and me know that we better not be trying to discuss this fact. FUCK THAT. Get mad about what is being done to Julian Assange - because we are next.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I don't think there's some blanket obligation to be mild mannered. By all means, use incisive language to describe bad things! The problem is with passages like > but yeah, drop the ol' "Ma' Russians!" into the conversations, and heads explode. This isn't an attempt to vividly illustrate the problem or an expression of righteous anger. It's just trolling - it accomplishes nothing but inciting people to yell back at you.
  - newen 6y ago
    It’s fact isn’t it? The US government as well as Americans themselves regularly use crimes done by Russia and China to distract from crimes done by their own government.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  Genocide is not happening. You won’t be taken seriously if you make such claims.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Why is it always brown people whose blood and bones are ground up in the gristmill of the American war machine? Doesn't that seem just a bit genocidal? Even in places like Latin America where the reptiles could choose among a variety of races as collaborators in their monstrous schemes, they somehow always ally with white people to kill indigenous people. This is going on right now in Bolivia, and Venezuela has had this potential for a long time, but historically one must take care to find an uncolored spot on the map. [0] No one in this thread cares to "be taken seriously" by those who don't acknowledge recent history. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    > Genocide is not happening Not, it is not. In any case, having 201.000 Americans killed in less than a year (after being goose-feeded with fake news to ignore the danger), does not feel like an improvement over the classical stuff. (Without forgetting the rest of covid's victims, of course).
  - dang 6y ago
    It looks like you've been using HN primarily (if not exclusively) for political battle. That's against the site guidelines and we ban accounts that do it, because it moves this place in exactly the opposite direction we want it to go. HN is supposed to be for curious conversation. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended, we'd appreciate it. If you want more explanation about how we moderate this, see https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... and https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
- dang 6y ago
  We've had to ask you more than once before to stop doing this sort of flamewar on HN. If you keep doing it, we're going to have to ban you. I'm not going to ban you right now because you posted about octopuses and mopeds recently. But it's not acceptable to flame up the threads like this, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - fit2rule 6y ago
    dang - I mean this sincerely: You've got to find a way to hold a conversation about America's war crimes, and its very real crimes against humanity, without violent repression of speech - which is what your threats of account removal amount to. This story is extremely relevant to your readership. The title of this HN story is "Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial", and here you are, dang, threatening to ban me for discussing America's war crimes, the very ones which were revealed to the world by Julian Assange. You are LITERALLY using the very same playbook as Judge Baraitser: "America's crimes against humanity, its war crimes, and its criminal behaviour: SHALL NOT BE DISCUSSED OPENLY IN PUBLIC because: its too scary to the readership". Yes, America's war crimes are scary. But no matter what you do, they're not going away. You must be prepared to discuss this and to maintain community while it is discussed, openly and honestly, in your forum. The HN community are extremely relevant to this discussion. Dissuading open discussion about America's horrendous war crimes and diverting attention away from them is complicity. I'm sure there is a story to be told about how HN censors stories critical of its military industrial masters. In fact, we can follow the money and come up with a very interesting question: * What is Y-combinators/HN's connection with the KSA and how does that effect HN's reporting around the current genocide of Yemen? * Perhaps we will read about it in future Wikileaks, or whatever cool tech news site that comes along to replace the smouldering pile of rubble that HN is inevitably to become, as a result of its administrators cowardice... In the meantime, since you have made comments designed to intimidate me based on personally identifiable information I have posted on your web site: I am hereby requesting immediate erasure of personal data concerning me according to Article 17 GDPR. Please erase all personal data concerning me as defined by Article 4(1) GDPR. Please delete the following personal data concerning me: all comments posted to the HN site under the 'fit2rule' account name. I am of the opinion that the requirements set forth in Article 17(1) GDPR are fulfilled. You cannot claim an expection based on Article 17(3) GDPR either, particularly as I am not a public figure. If I have given consent to the processing of my personal data (e.g. according to Article 6(1) or Article 9(2) GDPR), I am hereby withdrawing said consent for the entire process. In addition, I am objecting to the processing of personal data concerning me (which includes profiling), according to Article 21 GDPR. I request that you restrict the processing of the data concerning me pending the verification whether your legitimate grounds override mine, pursuant to Art. 18(1)(d) GDPR. If you have made the aforementioned data public, you are obliged pursuant to Article 17(2) GDPR to take all reasonable steps to inform other controllers, including search engine operators, who process the personal data listed above, that I have requested the erasure of all links, copies or replications. This applies not only to exact copies of the data concerned, but also to those from which information contained in the data concerned can be derived. In case you have disclosed the affected personal data to third parties, you have to communicate my request for erasure of the affected personal data, as well as any references to it, to each recipient as laid down in Article 19 GDPR. Please also inform me about those recipients. If you object to the requested erasure, you have to justify that to me. My request explicitly includes any other services and companies for which you are the controller as defined by Article 4(7) GDPR. As laid down in Article 12(3) GDPR, you have to confirm the erasure to me without undue delay and in any event within one month of receipt of the request. I am including the following information necessary to identify me: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=fit2rule https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=fit2rule If you do not answer my request within the stated period, I am reserving the right to take legal action against you and to lodge a complaint with the responsible supervisory authority.