7 ms·

I wonder if he will go down in American history as a more poisonous senator than McCarthy.

by glenstein 6y ago

peteradio 6y ago
He was just playing the incredible hand dealt him.
- Hnrobert42 6y ago
  I don’t think so. He could play it differently, that is, with integrity.
  - peteradio 6y ago
    > with integrity. What exactly do you think politics is?
    - jshen 6y ago
      A non violent process through which differences are settled, ideally with at least a veil of integrity, or you’re likely to get the violence it was aimed to prevent.
    - xg15 6y ago
      Yeah sorry, do you want fascism? Cause that's how you get fascism.
      - AuryGlenz 6y ago
        It’s not fascism to do things the way the rules/law specifies. You may think it’s immoral or gross, but it’s in no way fascism. I hate how much that word gets thrown around nowadays.
        vasachi 6y ago
        Oh no, fascism is always completely legal. Just morally wrong.
        ardy42 6y ago
        > It’s not fascism to do things the way the rules/law specifies. That's not a workable definition. At many points in history fascists were literally the ones writing the rules and laws. Also, it's not like the law is software proved with formal methods to prevent fascism. There are bugs and exploits that are only prevented from being problems by the integrity of political actors, and some of those can be pretty trivially discovered. The more integrity you remove, the higher the chance you end up with a configuration that results in something like fascism.
    - earthboundkid 6y ago
      You attempt to prevent a literal war of all against all by making various alliances and deals that please all but all small rump of violent extremists.
    - newacct583 6y ago
      That's not helpful. There are "rules", and there are "norms". People follow the rules assuming that everyone is operating in good faith, and that everyone agrees the rules exist for the benefit of everyone. If rules are only there to be exploited, you end up with a disaster. I mean, sure, you can force through a nomination now and produce a wildly lopsided court. But then the democrats might just win the senate and presidency and decide that they can add four more justices. The rules allow that, too. Is that the world you want to live in?
acjohnson55 6y ago
The victors write the history books, and McCarthy didn't hang on to power long enough to do so.
malwarebytess 6y ago
I don't know what you could call his brand of governance other than pure evil. It's men and women like him who destroy nations and stir violence.
- koolba 6y ago
  It’s talk like this that truly disgusts me. And it only comes from the left. Anyone in a position of power that effectively promotes opposing views is labeled as pure evil. The more effective, the more evil. Just because your side is losing does not mean the other side is working for Satan. It’s talk like that that leads to violence.
  - kemayo 6y ago
    Ah, my poor innocent friend. Let me disabuse you of your "only the left" naïveté. For, you see, I have just googled "Obama destroy America", and I'm going to share the first result with you. It's titled "Democrats, like Obama, trying to destroy America": https://www.kenoshanews.com/opinion/writer-democrats-like-obama-trying-to-destroy-america/article_d8584ac9-60db-5e98-a00b-e7c660a82bcc.html https://www.kenoshanews.com/opinion/writer-democrats-like-ob... The author is upset, it seems, that the Democratic Party is making progress on their policy agenda after the 2018 midterms. So they must want nothing more than to destroy the country, because they're evil. Lest you accuse me of cherry-picking, this was not unique.
    - koolba 6y ago
      Words are cheap and you can find dumb opinion articles on every topic and position. When it comes to action, I don't recall seeing mobs of angry conservatives voters rioting, looting, stealing, and committing arson. I also don't recall see any conservative elected leaders refusing to acknowledge or condemn those actions either.
      - kemayo 6y ago
        Once again grabbing a top google result, we see "Trump refuses to condemn right-wing violent protestors": https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/trump-refuses-to-condemn-right-wing-violent-protesters/2020/08/31/38b09031-cdcc-4a36-8ae9-9a7ae1212a6d_video.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/trump-refuses-...
xenospn 6y ago
I think American history will be rewritten very soon, probably by McConnell.
dang 6y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24523218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24523218.

I wonder if he will go down in American history as a more poisonous senator than McCarthy.

peteradio 6y ago

He was just playing the incredible hand dealt him.

Hnrobert42 6y ago
I don’t think so. He could play it differently, that is, with integrity.
- peteradio 6y ago
  > with integrity. What exactly do you think politics is?
  - jshen 6y ago
    A non violent process through which differences are settled, ideally with at least a veil of integrity, or you’re likely to get the violence it was aimed to prevent.
  - xg15 6y ago
    Yeah sorry, do you want fascism? Cause that's how you get fascism.
    - AuryGlenz 6y ago
      It’s not fascism to do things the way the rules/law specifies. You may think it’s immoral or gross, but it’s in no way fascism. I hate how much that word gets thrown around nowadays.
      - vasachi 6y ago
        Oh no, fascism is always completely legal. Just morally wrong.
      - ardy42 6y ago
        > It’s not fascism to do things the way the rules/law specifies. That's not a workable definition. At many points in history fascists were literally the ones writing the rules and laws. Also, it's not like the law is software proved with formal methods to prevent fascism. There are bugs and exploits that are only prevented from being problems by the integrity of political actors, and some of those can be pretty trivially discovered. The more integrity you remove, the higher the chance you end up with a configuration that results in something like fascism.
  - earthboundkid 6y ago
    You attempt to prevent a literal war of all against all by making various alliances and deals that please all but all small rump of violent extremists.
  - newacct583 6y ago
    That's not helpful. There are "rules", and there are "norms". People follow the rules assuming that everyone is operating in good faith, and that everyone agrees the rules exist for the benefit of everyone. If rules are only there to be exploited, you end up with a disaster. I mean, sure, you can force through a nomination now and produce a wildly lopsided court. But then the democrats might just win the senate and presidency and decide that they can add four more justices. The rules allow that, too. Is that the world you want to live in?

acjohnson55 6y ago

The victors write the history books, and McCarthy didn't hang on to power long enough to do so.

malwarebytess 6y ago

I don't know what you could call his brand of governance other than pure evil. It's men and women like him who destroy nations and stir violence.

koolba 6y ago
It’s talk like this that truly disgusts me. And it only comes from the left. Anyone in a position of power that effectively promotes opposing views is labeled as pure evil. The more effective, the more evil. Just because your side is losing does not mean the other side is working for Satan. It’s talk like that that leads to violence.
- kemayo 6y ago
  Ah, my poor innocent friend. Let me disabuse you of your "only the left" naïveté. For, you see, I have just googled "Obama destroy America", and I'm going to share the first result with you. It's titled "Democrats, like Obama, trying to destroy America": https://www.kenoshanews.com/opinion/writer-democrats-like-obama-trying-to-destroy-america/article_d8584ac9-60db-5e98-a00b-e7c660a82bcc.html https://www.kenoshanews.com/opinion/writer-democrats-like-ob... The author is upset, it seems, that the Democratic Party is making progress on their policy agenda after the 2018 midterms. So they must want nothing more than to destroy the country, because they're evil. Lest you accuse me of cherry-picking, this was not unique.
  - koolba 6y ago
    Words are cheap and you can find dumb opinion articles on every topic and position. When it comes to action, I don't recall seeing mobs of angry conservatives voters rioting, looting, stealing, and committing arson. I also don't recall see any conservative elected leaders refusing to acknowledge or condemn those actions either.
    - kemayo 6y ago
      Once again grabbing a top google result, we see "Trump refuses to condemn right-wing violent protestors": https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/trump-refuses-to-condemn-right-wing-violent-protesters/2020/08/31/38b09031-cdcc-4a36-8ae9-9a7ae1212a6d_video.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/trump-refuses-...

xenospn 6y ago

I think American history will be rewritten very soon, probably by McConnell.

dang 6y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24523218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24523218.