16 ms·

All the jobs I failed to get

168 points by edent 6y ago

LaFolle 6y ago
When I got a job at one of the FAANG companies I told a friend how many rejections I got. The friend said: “it’s easier to narrate your failures once you’ve emerged victorious”. She was right, I realized. Now I’m looking for job again, have been rejected by 4 companies, no offer in hand yet and I’m open about it.
- Guest42 6y ago
  What are your specialties? Place I work has openings for .net and java web app devs and full stack
- worldmerge 6y ago
  Thank you for this. I recently graduated in May with a bachelors in CS and looking at LinkedIn has been very discouraging. I know it's unhealthy to compare yourself to others but it's hard, especially when you see a lot of other people having success. Before the pandemic I was banking on going to EYEO and SIGGRAPH to network with people in the creative technology space to break into it (my goal is to be a creative technologist like the Google Creative Lab), now I'm just trying to finish a personal project to showcase my skills (can't wait to share it with Hacker News), find a job, and apply for grad school in a program like NYU ITP, or a Human Computer Interaction program.
  - baxtr 6y ago
    On a larger note: I find looking into LinkedIn quite depressing. Everyone is happy and excited and successful. There is no real value in most posts. Rather, they’re usually a variation of this: ”#supergrateful and #blessed for meeting super inspiring %SomeoneImportant today #growth #entrepreneurship %hipsterstartup #nopause” I try to stay away from it as much as I can.
    - kwertyoowiyop 6y ago
      Those people are showing their “highlights reel,” of course. I see people who’ve been laid off saying how #blessed they are to start their own business, people getting promoted or pumping the release of their latest project but are very stressed and unhappy, etc. I also stay away from LinkedIn, though. #worthless #selfpromotion
    - mkalimani 6y ago
      Same, I've found this uBlock origin filter very handy to avoid the feed www.linkedin.com###voyager-feed
    - cpach 6y ago
      This is the way I think about Linkedin: It’s not really about networking. Most fruitful networking take place on other places. It’s mostly a way for recruiters to find people. The modern equivalent of a Rolodex. Which can be good for people who might want to get in touch with a recruiter that has something to offer them. (Some people don’t want do be contacted by recruiters and for those people Linkedin probably doesn’t have so much to offer.)
    - vmurthy 6y ago
      The scourge of social media :). Quite some research linking depression/anxiety and social media [0] and even though my own experience is not exactly data, I am happy I don't mindlessly scroll through pics and boasts and get time to spend on other things (like HN ;-)) . LinkedIn, I am afraid is becoming very similar :( [0] https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=social+media+depression+statistics&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=social+media+depress...
  - commandertso 6y ago
    Hang in there! I’ve had a long career in technology, and for most of it I was doing project and product management, with some light coding on my own time as a hobby. Five years ago I’d finally had it with all that and went to a great coding boot camp. I did end up landing a job after that, but it was a grueling experience to go back to zero in finding jobs. Comparing yourself to others can be incredibly draining. Not only are many of these people at different stages in their careers than you are, but you’re seeing the best faces they can put forward when you look at LinkedIn. My advice is - own who and where you are right now. You have done a hell of a lot of work to get where you are now, and you can be proud of that. And if a company isn’t looking for someone like you - if 20 companies aren’t - that’s not on you. Keep working on your craft, keep following what networking angles you can in this crazy year, and keep the faith.
    - worldmerge 6y ago
      Hi! Thank you so much for your comment, it means a lot! Thank you.
  - caseysoftware 6y ago
    > I was banking on going to EYEO and SIGGRAPH to network with people in the creative technology space to break into it The secret to networking is to "network" when you don't need anything. If you meet people in your (intended) field, get to know them, learn, learn, learn, and generally establish yourself - even a little - before you need it, you'll be 100x better off when you do. If you wait until you need it, you can come off as needy, desperate, or one of those "I only hear from them when they need something" people. I have a former friend that literally the only time I heard from her was when she was looking for work. I got in to habit of "Oh, she emailed.. must be looking for a job!" Don't be them.
    - ramzyo 6y ago
      I actually don’t see this is a negative thing, and prefer it sometimes so long as the expectations are mutual. If me and another person are on the same page about only being in touch when the other needs something, and it goes both ways, why waste time trying to facilitate a friendship for the sake of it? Often I find those “friendships” lack substance and just serve to fulfill a social norm that it’s bad to ask for things only when you need them. Perhaps what I’m suggesting is that so long as the social contract is agreed upon (usually implicitly) between parties, there’s nothing wrong with having transactional professional relationships.
    - frutiger 6y ago
      > The secret to networking is to "network" when you don't need anything. I can’t emphasise this enough. Over the past decade I have built up a small network of mostly former and current colleagues. We all have mutual respect for each other, so if an opportunity or need arose neither party would feel bad about reaching out or being reached out to. After all, a positive outcome will likely be mutual. I used to think that networking involved going to conferences and shaking hands with strangers in hallways while exchanging business cards. This was terrifying because I knew I’d be bad at it. I was pleasantly surprised at being wrong.
    - Balgair 6y ago
      I think the old saying goes something like: When you want money, ask for advice. When you want advice, ask for money.
  - gregsadetsky 6y ago
    Hey! You might want to look into the public Creative Developers slack -- http://creative-dev.herokuapp.com/ http://creative-dev.herokuapp.com/ -- there's a good community there. Also, look into what the School for Poetic Computation is doing -- https://sfpc.io/ https://sfpc.io/ Happy to send you (a lot) more references / ideas of places to which you could apply, digital artist centers to follow, etc. Reach out! (email in profile) Oh, and also -- https://www.recurse.com/ https://www.recurse.com/ :-) Cheers
- hhs 6y ago
  > “it’s easier to narrate your failures once you’ve emerged victorious”. This is similar to survivorship bias, and its relationship to cause and effect stories.
- keanebean86 6y ago
  I've been rejected by Google once, Amazon like 10 time (I even had an onsight in 2017), Facebook once, and Microsoft once. Apple didn't even say they didn't want me.
- emit_time 6y ago
  I had 11 onsites (over the course of 6-8 months) at mostly normal tech companies before getting an offer at a FAANG. Now I've been here 6 months. Really crazy, and I have no idea how this ended up happening. Probably a combination of studying more and getting better with every interview, finding my weaknesses and fixing them. Along with a combination of bad luck with getting rejected so many times, and good luck with the final acceptance of where I am. Interesting thing is that I think my offer was more towards the higher end of band for this company, so who knows.
4cao 6y ago
"So, what have you failed at this week?"
- z33k 6y ago
  I failed my real analysis II exam, I failed to make progress at the gym, I failed a quiz on agile software development, I guess you could even say I failed to go on a date since I got stood up.
  - Jugurtha 6y ago
    You can check out https://mirtitles.org https://mirtitles.org for books from MIR Publishers. These are amazing books. For analysis, you can check out: - "Problems in Mathematical Analysis" - Demidovich - "Differential and Integral Calculus" - Piskunov - "A Course of Higher Mathematics" - Smirnov Excellent books. [Link edited as I posted in a hurry. Thank you, sedeki]
    - sedeki 6y ago
      Correct link seems to be https://mirtitles.org https://mirtitles.org. Thank you.
    - TheTrotters 6y ago
      Soviet era math problem books? Buy a few reams of paper too!
      - Jugurtha 6y ago
        Exactly. I actually did buy reams of paper and quantified my revisions days with how many sheets I had written. I made booklets folding A4 paper longitudinally in half. Easy to put in my back pocket. Solve problems everywhere. It's more economical, too, a lot of paper is not filled with ink if you leave it in A4, and folding it to make A5 doesn't sole the problem (short lines) an is impractical to carry (can't put in back pocket).
  - colmvp 6y ago
Droobfest 6y ago
humblebrag, they're all high status positions
- gnfargbl 6y ago
  Deputy Director jobs in the UK Civil Service aren’t actually that senior. They tend to pay around £75k, or $100k US, which is a pretty decent wage for the general population but not quite at levels.fyi rates.
  - qmmmur 6y ago
    Sorry since when is over double the median wage 'decent'. Some people on this forum have their head in their arses when it comes to money.
    - bkanber 6y ago
      If you're in a certain industry, you're typically looking at the median in that industry and not the national median. USD $100k is ~4 year experience software engineer salary.
      - foldr 6y ago
        >USD $100k is ~4 year experience software engineer salary. Not in the UK, though.
        simsla 6y ago
        Point still stands. UK software engineer median wages are above UK national median wages.
        foldr 6y ago
        Yes, but 100k USD is a very high (though not impossibly high) wage for a software engineer in London. In the US it's an unremarkable salary in major tech hubs.
MichaelZuo 6y ago
It takes courage to share your failures publicly so kudos. Though the part about “CTO of a large government department” seems like a role that depends more on length of tenure and knowing the right people. Something that a headhunter would reach out for serious candidates.
iandinwoodie 6y ago
I got a good laugh out of the Meta-Failures section.
amzo 6y ago
I can't even remember the 80-85 jobs I've applied for in the last 7 months.
- giantg2 6y ago
  When I got out of college, I applied to about 250 jobs and only got 3 calls. Luckily one of those did pan out. I keep hearing how there's a war for technical talent. I guess I don't have any.
  - thedufer 6y ago
    I think the problem is not that there isn't enough if it (this may or may not be true) but more that it is very hard to figure out where it is. There are probably a good number of people who aren't presenting themselves well, despite having the talent, and get lost in the many applicants that don't seem to know how to program at all. Finding the right people is really hard. I do think the need for technical talent is there, though - I've had a very different experience from what you describe.
    - giantg2 6y ago
      To add some more detail, my experience was during the mortgage meltdown and fallout from that. I agree with your perspective. I also think there are issues on the recruiting side. Sometimes it seems like they don't know what they need and they just list a ton of unnecessary stuff in the list of required skills.
      - bradlys 6y ago
        I had a similar experience but during 2014-2016. It’s very common with new grads to spend 6+ months applying to get a job (even if you have internships or work experience). Almost no companies will take the risk due to whatever stigma. It took me about 2 years after college until I got steady employment. I think I had sent over 750 apps and interviewed at over 100 companies. Most of the time they were trying to get a senior software engineer (5+ years xp) but considered me because I was probably one of the only people who had applied to their place. My interviewing skills were/are still garbage compared to the competition though.
x87678r 6y ago
Its fascinating because you see people get new jobs all the time but you never really know how many they applied for. I'm still not sure if my colleagues just apply for a few jobs they want and get them or apply for 100 and get just one or two.
- minkzilla 6y ago
  New grad who spent 6 months applying for jobs everyday checking in. I got rejected/never heard from 120+ companies. Of those probably 25 I spent time actually writing a cover letter and tailoring my resume to. Finally got a job at an amazing company for good compensation and I love my job!
zxcvbn4038 6y ago
I once applied for a position building digital kiosks for American Airlines - I did not get it and in retrospect that is probably better because the company is always on the edge on bankruptcy, doing furloughs and layoffs, etc. I would have had a hard time during numerous financial downturns and world events like mortgage bubble, 9/11, and COVID. I would never have worked for Tumblr which was double plus awesome. But just the same, every time I check in at a kiosk in the airport I think to myself - I could have done this much better - and lament the missed opportunity.
- scrose 6y ago
  It’s only a missed opportunity if you think you’d get approval to improve the screens! I’ve indirectly worked with American on their screens, and I’m not so sure improving UX is their top priority.
- trentnix 6y ago
  I had a (scheduled as such) short consulting stint at AA back in ‘09. Horrible experience. I wouldn’t work there if they doubled my salary and let me take Fridays off.
ibn_khaldun 6y ago
The opportunity even to fail at achieving the positions and distinctions listed is a privilege itself. Granted, it isn't the duty of one particular demographic or class to police how another responds to these sort of things because we're all human and have the right to express how we feel about rejection and not meeting the expectations set by ourselves or others. I can understand and appreciate how this can be a boon to the esteem of their peers. But let's take it a step further. Is there a way that the authors of these "CV of failures" can bridge the gap between themselves and those who may not even have a "curriculum" to ascribe to their life?
djhworld 6y ago
It's amusing looking back at the failed ones, at the time it feels terrible, but as time passes it becomes an footnote of your own personal history. My favourite one was sitting in a conference room in a hotel basement being interviewed by a FAANG for 5 hours. Completely bombed the interview but it makes me laugh looking back at it
100-xyz 6y ago
I had a first interview for Product Manager for Google about a week ago and got the reject couple of days back. The recruiter said it was close. I played back the interview in my head and realized I could have been more methodical in my answers. Finally, just decided to let go. In the end its just a footnote.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > The recruiter said it was close. Is this something a recruiter might ever not say?
  - rudolph9 6y ago
    For an in-house recruiter, yes. They generally say that because they want you to interview again in the future. I don’t think they would waste their time if it wasn’t close. Head hunters on the other hand will generally say anything to get you to keep interviewing.
Tade0 6y ago
I have a folder with over 30 screenshots of job listings for all the positions I applied for last year. Took me almost two months to find employment and in hindsight my greatest mistake was to bother with all that in November - companies started replying only in December when apparently they were finished with planning for the next quarter. I'm seeing the same phenomenon now that again I'm looking to get hired - I currently have one offer on the table and at least three other interviews even though a month ago the best what I could hope for was a canned response rejecting my application.
quantumwoke 6y ago
OP is clearly trying to get a job in government. I hate to say it, and I mean this with the least amount of offence possible, but typically UK government jobs require you to look the part more than having sufficient technical knowledge. OP is applying for deputy head of governmental departments without the required background experience and to my untrained eye, the gravitas required. Perhaps a trip to the barber is warranted. Otherwise, great post! :)
Kosirich 6y ago
I'm currently working at a very well known international company where I got hired after getting rejected from a significant number (+50) of big international companies and a good number of local ones (by local I mean from my small EU country). Strangely or perhaps completely understandable, getting rejected from the local companies 'hurt' more as I was aware that the pool of candidates was significantly smaller, there was no culture issue and it felt personal when rejection email was extremely late or non existent. I pull my hat down for the people who can be completely transparent in their 'failures'. I do wonder though, if the motivation behind the 'failures-cv' is to send a sort of a message to the companies and grant boards mentioned in it, when it's done after the person writing it has had significant success. By message I mean sort of 'look guys, I'm doing relatively ok and you didn't even call me for an interview'. Also, the article sparked an idea. Perhaps a good 'heuristic' for judging companies hiring processes and especially governmental ones would be to look at not only CVs of people getting hired but also those that get rejected. Part of that thinking comes from a conversation with one of my managers who said that sometimes he has a look at CV-s classified as 'C' (he get's only A & B from HR) and he wonders why some of them were not in the A and B group.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  The sorting of resumes into A B and C piles is incredibly noisy. I could look at the same resume on two different days and reach a different conclusion, especially for an A<->B or B<->C transition, so it’s easy for me to see how someone else could reach a different bucketing.
rodolphoarruda 6y ago
Reminded me of a friend who had applied to over 1,000 job openings in LinkedIn in 2019 and got zero response from them. Then he decided to take the risk and run his own business, which is starting to gain some traction right now after the covid crisis.
- denysvitali 6y ago
  Would it be nice if you can link it here though, just saying (:
- rudolph9 6y ago
  Zero responses or zero offers? I find it hard to imagine not one of the 1000 positions he applied to wouldn’t even bother to respond provided he is qualified (or even in the ballpark) for the the job.
brogrammernot 6y ago
GoDaddy rejected me a year after I applied and only realized it when a recruiter was trying to input me into their system. I took great pride in informing her that a) I made more than their proposed offer and b) I’d never work for a company who couldn’t operate with basic human decency in their recruiting process. Because of that experience, I make it a point that every single candidate deserves a yes or no response and the company I work for has kept that up.
- dominotw 6y ago
  > I took great pride in informing her that a) I made more than their proposed offer and b) I’d never work for a company who couldn’t operate with basic human decency in their recruiting process. I used to work in tech recruiting. I guarantee you 100%, no one cares. As a candidate your only option is to move on or write a bad glassdoor if you are so inclined and move on.
  - andreareina 6y ago
    I'm on the interviewer's side of the table and we absolutely do care.
  - tremon 6y ago
    It's never silly to inform someone when they fail basic human decency.
  - Aqua 6y ago
    Well, it tells a lot about how much you(and probably your management) care about your job. My org was once hiring for a tech position, it was a new role, we weren't exactly sure if the process was right and one candidate sent us an email criticising the process and interviewers. We have apologised and thanked for the feedback, which was brought onboard and used to calibrate and improve the process further. Not every company is the same. Besides, when we have received that kind of message it immediately raised some red flags. What if the candidate complains on glassdoor or other social media? It would damage our reputation. And frankly speaking, GoDaddy doesn't exactly have a good reputation.
  - 6y ago
henvic 6y ago
The last time I got rejected was after the final interview. The recruiter scheduled a call to talk with me without letting me know they had an offer. I could only have imagined they'd be making an offer. He thanked me for the time and told me why they decided to reject me, and that they'd likely reconsider me in six months. I'd rather receive an email telling upfront I was rejected instead (still would be happy to schedule a call).
- rudolph9 6y ago
  I’ve gotten three of these calls in the last 6 months. I learned after the first one not to get too excited and grown to appreciate actually getting feedback. I can’t stand the interviews where you invest a significant amount of time and get zero feedback. I realize they often don’t want to share everything but give me something so I have some direction for improvement.
some0x80070005 6y ago
App
rco8786 6y ago
I remember getting rejected by Google because I completely blanked on a binary search question. All my other rounds were great, but you can’t miss the search question at the search company.
- bradlys 6y ago
  I mean, you can’t miss any question at the big companies. There are endless candidates who have done 1000+ problems on leetcode in the waiting.
  - nullsense 6y ago
    Its less an interview more an exam where the only acceptable mark is about 95% to 100%
- macjohnmcc 6y ago
  I worked at Microsoft for a while a couple decades ago. I reapplied a few years ago and got through three developers reviewing me and the PM but didn't get the job. It can be disappointing if you really want to work somewhere badly. I still do but not sure if I will get a chance to interview there again.
ryanSrich 6y ago
My final interview with AWS for a Sr PdM role went so poorly that they told me I had to wait 12 months to apply again. I feel like that’s some sort of accomplishment on its own.
- rudolph9 6y ago
  They probably have a standard period to wait. Is this significantly longer than what other people have encountered?
  - lostcolony 6y ago
    All the FAANGs do, though it sometimes varies. A year is typical though (and I think at different times in their hiring cycle it varies, too). For one FAANG, I had 3/5s my interview panel all clearly very positive about me, and 2/5s who clearly did not care from the very first minute of the interview, and the internal recruiter was like "Let's talk again in a year". Like, the implication clearly being he expected a pass, it was just luck of the draw on the panel. But even with that, year 'cooling off' period.
  - ryanSrich 6y ago
    Potentially. The person who replied to you before me said it’s standard, but I remember reading online somewhere at the time that 6 months was the cool off period.
soneca 6y ago
My list of recent jobs I failed to get is about 200 unglamorous mid-level roles in small unknown companies that I applied through the last 2 months. 90% of them I was rejected on the resume filter. About 5 rejections after an intro interview. About more 5 or more rejections after a technical interview/coding challenge. Only 2 places on a final interview with chances of offers as of now (luckily in companies that I believe I would enjoy working). If I were to publish such a blog post it would be more depressing and probably make me look like a bad developer (at least a bad candidate), not like someone who is “open about failure”.
- nullsense 6y ago
  I seem to apply to a about 3 to 5 places and get an offer within that. I can't imagine 200. Though I work on a team with a guy who told me he had to apply to about 80 places. I've read his CV and it doesn't have a lot of signals that scream hire me. His pathway into software engineering is very non-typical. Despite that he's a decent developer and a great colleague.
  - soneca 6y ago
    The reasons I believe impact my poor performance: - Graduated in Brazil (nobody knows my university) - Graduated in non-CS degree - Self-taught developer after careeer change with 37 yo (used freeCodeCamp.org, not even a known boot camp) - No famous (in the US) companies in my resume Probably more things that I don’t know. I have a similar numbers of interviews coming from my “Who wants to be hired” post [0] and from these ~200 applications [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24343085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24343085
    - nullsense 6y ago
      Yeah, that makes sense.
- kamaal 6y ago
  When I started out I worked at a call center(A tech support center). When I interviewed there, I went in through a hiring consultant. I met a girl there who had failed in interviews in like some 40 companies and then finally got hired in our batch. From what I know she went on to do some amazing things. This always brings me some perspective on the merits or acceptance or rejection in any process. Getting rejected any number times means nothing at all. People interviewing candidates are no better than the candidate, and in many cases not even as good as the candidate. Even if they were better it wouldn't matter, 1 hour is barely any time to judge any one and any decision you are likely to make even a 'yes' decision will never be 100% right. Even a hire decision doesn't mean you are awesome. Plus a person measuring their worth based on job interviews is totally wrong. We like to think that people wish to hire people at least as good as them, if not better. In reality no one likes people better than them, and they'd rather not have some one better than them at work. They will be hiring competition responsible for them not getting raises, bonuses, promotions or RSU's. You are more likely to get rejected being good than bad. If I've learned anything at all its the Clinton principle How many chances does one get? As much as one is willing to take Pretty much any rejection any where means nothing. I'm not saying one must not take them seriously enough to improve oneself. But there is not need to get depressed or under evaluating yourself. Just be chipping away at a good system of improving yourself in never ending cycles.
trentnix 6y ago
I think that people need to be more open about failure. Rejection isn't necessarily failure. I appreciate that the article is about objective self-evaluation and self-improvement, but that requires a good understanding of why you really didn't get the job. And it's possible the feedback you are getting is not the whole story. Back in 2003 I was a young C++/C/Java developer with a couple of years of experience looking for a new job in a new town. I felt like I was talented and capable and was hungry to prove myself. It was a tougher market in those days so I was applying anywhere that posted a job that seemed like a fit. I got rejected time and time again and most of the time I didn't even get a rejection. I never even heard back at all. I was ignored. It was demoralizing. I knew if I could just get an interview, I'd have a great shot at a good job. But I couldn't even get an interview. I felt like a failure. I finally landed a C++ gig at a company I accidentally applied to twice (they gave me an interview because they thought I was resilient). It turned out to be a great experience. I got to tackle hard problems, learned a lot, and was promoted quickly. I was soon managing the team I was originally hired to write code for. After a few years of that I was headhunted to work for a consulting firm that specialized in what later became DevOps (we were pushing CI/CD back in 2006 and automated virtualization for build and test in 2007). As part of that job, I ended up with a few gigs at companies that had rejected me only a few years before. Here I was telling them how to make software at 4 times the rate they could have hired me for full time just a few years earlier. I'd won! But really, I learned most of these companies hadn't hired me for reasons that had nothing to do with me. I didn't know who I was competing with. I didn't know what specific traits they valued. I didn't understand the stresses and risk and pressure those hiring managers were under when they compared the PDF I submitted to the PDF someone else submitted. For example, the company that hired me after I applied twice rejected me first because I was from out of town. They had so many bad experiences with hiring and firing that they didn't want to hire someone that had to move to take the job. They were actually being considerate of my risk, not just their own. They thought they were doing me a favor! And in a few of companies I was now consulting for, I saw poor culture, poor talent, poor processes, and poor hiring practices. I saw HR people filtering out prospects because that person's resume didn't have everything on some magic, unadvertised checklist. I saw politics. I saw bias. I saw incompetence. Some of these places wouldn't have been able to spot talent if their lives depended on it. Really, I wasn't the one that failed when I was rejected. They had failed by rejecting the wrong people. And I was fortunate they'd rejected me because it would have been an awful place to work. Rejection is God's protection, I've heard it said. So rejection wasn't failure. It usually had nothing at all to do with what I really could do or couldn't do. If I failed, it was in allowing rejection to affect my self-worth. After running my own business for almost a decade, I'm back in the software industry. I'm fortunate to have a good job thanks to people I worked with previously, but I'm hungry for bigger challenges and believe I have the skills and capability to meet them. Except now I have a 9-year "hole" in my resume that doesn't say Google/Microsoft/Facebook or AWS/Azure/Cloud or whatever else the cool kids are doing. From a hiring manager's perspective at those great jobs that attract lots of talented candidates, that means I'm a risk. But having been that hiring manager, having owned my own business, and having spent time in the trenches, I understand and sympathize. Rejection isn't personal and it's not always about me.
mgkimsal 6y ago
> I think that people need to be more open about failure. None of us are perfect – despite what our social media presence says – and all of us suffer rejection. But, by being open and honest about it, we make it easier for others to realise that they’re not alone. Yes BUT... I haven't been in too many situations where I've been actively looking for employment/engagements, but some of the times I've been in those situations, everything was bad. It's difficult to go back and 'share' those with people - publicly - as it brings back a lot of bad memories of those time periods. Low funds or debt, downsizing, loss of friends/community, home/life issues, family issues, whatever. Scenarios where someone is looking for a job are often stressful, and that often can spread out for months, and affect the family and friends around you. I'm happy to share extreme details of my situations with people in person, offer up support and give advice and insight about someone's situation by drawing on my own experiences, but... typically only in person. Publicly... generally not. There's not just 'shame' issues for yourself; when you have a family, posting information about your failures can have an impact on your family as well, which they may not want.
acomjean 6y ago
If you been at more than a few jobs, almost certainly you have had failures/ disasterous interviews. I certainly have. Once I’ve gotten a job, a question coworker asked: how did some of these other people around me get through the interview process.
didip 6y ago
Rejection is a fact of life, be it in relationships or in a job hunting. Just give yourself some time to go through the sad period, and then power through the next one. Luck is a high factor in getting a job anyway.
susansrants 6y ago
If you find this interesting you may also appreciate: Susan Tan Rants and Ruminations From A Job Applicant After 100 CS Job Interviews in Silicon Valley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzz5AaCWMps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzz5AaCWMps My recent job search adventures https://medium.com/@arctansusan/my-adventures-in-job-searching-for-senior-engineer-roles-7050e1c2b1a5 https://medium.com/@arctansusan/my-adventures-in-job-searchi... I really liked the airtable at the end of that post: https://airtable.com/shrL4aSSKldQHTtM3 https://airtable.com/shrL4aSSKldQHTtM3
bradenb 6y ago
It's a lot easier to accept rejection when you give up on the idea that you're a rock star. I think I do good work and so do my coworkers. Knowing that is enough for me. It's OK if I get rejected by the big boys.
mdturnerphys 6y ago
I like this quoted response: You have reached the required standard, but we are unable to offer you a job immediately. We have placed you on a reserve list from which future appointments may be made. When I was leaving academia it took a number of rejections before I realized that I wasn't being rejected because I wasn't qualified, but because the company only had one spot and I wasn't their top choice.
cushychicken 6y ago
Lots of comments about how people are only transparent about their failures after they're successful. There are plenty of reasons to conceal the failures in real time, but the two that jump to mind for me are: 1) not wanting your current employer to know you're looking, and 2) not wanting to advertise that you've been rejected to other future job prospects. (Could prime people into wondering "What's wrong with this candidate?" if you don't make it somewhere else.)
brian_herman 6y ago
All of my jobs: My first job was at Jewel as a bagger. My mom got me the job. The place was next to microcenter so I spent my paycheck there after work. I quit this job because of stress. Next job was at Michael’s a crafts store. It was seasonal and I didn’t get hired. After that I did contract jobs on upwork doing web design and development. I got fired from Subway because I was too slow at making sandwiches. In college I got burned out and eventually found my career as a programmer for an insurance company.
kra34 6y ago
A serious and urgent question, when did "data" a collective noun warrant a plural verb ex. "the data are ambiguous" "Data" was not treated this way in the past and now it is everywhere. Where did it come from and why did it change?
- abhayb 6y ago
  Data has always been plural! Datum is the singular. But actually treating it as plural is mostly a question of where the person speaking/writing is based. Americans treat it as singular, Brits plural. See also, corporations
  - kazinator 6y ago
    Note that in the English language, there is a rule in regard to forming compound nouns, which is that only the head of the compound can carry the plural marker. So for instance, whereas the compound noun phrase "law school entrance exams" is perfectly fine, "law schools entrance exam" is not. It has a plural on "schools", where it is not allowed to be, because that is not the head of the noun phrase. According to this rule, we should not have words like "data processing", unless we treat "data" as plural. If we treat "data" as the plural of "datum", we must make it "datum processing". Is that how it is in British English, or do they still make it "data processing"? In any case, one cannot be a proper pedant about "data" and "datum", while continuing to use terms like "data storage".
  - kra34 6y ago
    From a random internet site: " The data are correct. But most people treat 'data' as a singular noun, especially when talking about computers etc. For example:- The data is being transferred from my computer to yours. And I have to be honest, I've never heard anyone ask for a datum. " It could be the case that the scientific pluralization is leaking into regular usage because more people are collectively reading / reporting on scientific studies. Alternatively, Google / Grammarly and similar tools might be suggesting it because it's been seen in their training data / examples. In any case, IMHO 'datum' is a singular point of information, any reference to multiple points of information would make the noun plural.
Wintereise 6y ago
Seeing posts like these, I feel incredibly grateful to have a personal network that I've never really had to go beyond in search of a job. Networking in the early years as a young founder paid off big time.
juancn 6y ago
I've never been rejected in a job I interviewed for, but I tend to stay a long time once I find one I like. Is that so unusual? I'm really picky about jobs. I hardly never interview unless I think we're going to be a good match (me and the job) and that there's something I can bring to the table.

168 points by edent 6y ago

When I got a job at one of the FAANG companies I told a friend how many rejections I got. The friend said: “it’s easier to narrate your failures once you’ve emerged victorious”. She was right, I realized. Now I’m looking for job again, have been rejected by 4 companies, no offer in hand yet and I’m open about it.

Guest42 6y ago
What are your specialties? Place I work has openings for .net and java web app devs and full stack
worldmerge 6y ago
Thank you for this. I recently graduated in May with a bachelors in CS and looking at LinkedIn has been very discouraging. I know it's unhealthy to compare yourself to others but it's hard, especially when you see a lot of other people having success. Before the pandemic I was banking on going to EYEO and SIGGRAPH to network with people in the creative technology space to break into it (my goal is to be a creative technologist like the Google Creative Lab), now I'm just trying to finish a personal project to showcase my skills (can't wait to share it with Hacker News), find a job, and apply for grad school in a program like NYU ITP, or a Human Computer Interaction program.
- baxtr 6y ago
  On a larger note: I find looking into LinkedIn quite depressing. Everyone is happy and excited and successful. There is no real value in most posts. Rather, they’re usually a variation of this: ”#supergrateful and #blessed for meeting super inspiring %SomeoneImportant today #growth #entrepreneurship %hipsterstartup #nopause” I try to stay away from it as much as I can.
  - kwertyoowiyop 6y ago
    Those people are showing their “highlights reel,” of course. I see people who’ve been laid off saying how #blessed they are to start their own business, people getting promoted or pumping the release of their latest project but are very stressed and unhappy, etc. I also stay away from LinkedIn, though. #worthless #selfpromotion
  - mkalimani 6y ago
    Same, I've found this uBlock origin filter very handy to avoid the feed www.linkedin.com###voyager-feed
  - cpach 6y ago
    This is the way I think about Linkedin: It’s not really about networking. Most fruitful networking take place on other places. It’s mostly a way for recruiters to find people. The modern equivalent of a Rolodex. Which can be good for people who might want to get in touch with a recruiter that has something to offer them. (Some people don’t want do be contacted by recruiters and for those people Linkedin probably doesn’t have so much to offer.)
  - vmurthy 6y ago
    The scourge of social media :). Quite some research linking depression/anxiety and social media [0] and even though my own experience is not exactly data, I am happy I don't mindlessly scroll through pics and boasts and get time to spend on other things (like HN ;-)) . LinkedIn, I am afraid is becoming very similar :( [0] https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=social+media+depression+statistics&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=social+media+depress...
- commandertso 6y ago
  Hang in there! I’ve had a long career in technology, and for most of it I was doing project and product management, with some light coding on my own time as a hobby. Five years ago I’d finally had it with all that and went to a great coding boot camp. I did end up landing a job after that, but it was a grueling experience to go back to zero in finding jobs. Comparing yourself to others can be incredibly draining. Not only are many of these people at different stages in their careers than you are, but you’re seeing the best faces they can put forward when you look at LinkedIn. My advice is - own who and where you are right now. You have done a hell of a lot of work to get where you are now, and you can be proud of that. And if a company isn’t looking for someone like you - if 20 companies aren’t - that’s not on you. Keep working on your craft, keep following what networking angles you can in this crazy year, and keep the faith.
  - worldmerge 6y ago
    Hi! Thank you so much for your comment, it means a lot! Thank you.
- caseysoftware 6y ago
  > I was banking on going to EYEO and SIGGRAPH to network with people in the creative technology space to break into it The secret to networking is to "network" when you don't need anything. If you meet people in your (intended) field, get to know them, learn, learn, learn, and generally establish yourself - even a little - before you need it, you'll be 100x better off when you do. If you wait until you need it, you can come off as needy, desperate, or one of those "I only hear from them when they need something" people. I have a former friend that literally the only time I heard from her was when she was looking for work. I got in to habit of "Oh, she emailed.. must be looking for a job!" Don't be them.
  - ramzyo 6y ago
    I actually don’t see this is a negative thing, and prefer it sometimes so long as the expectations are mutual. If me and another person are on the same page about only being in touch when the other needs something, and it goes both ways, why waste time trying to facilitate a friendship for the sake of it? Often I find those “friendships” lack substance and just serve to fulfill a social norm that it’s bad to ask for things only when you need them. Perhaps what I’m suggesting is that so long as the social contract is agreed upon (usually implicitly) between parties, there’s nothing wrong with having transactional professional relationships.
  - frutiger 6y ago
    > The secret to networking is to "network" when you don't need anything. I can’t emphasise this enough. Over the past decade I have built up a small network of mostly former and current colleagues. We all have mutual respect for each other, so if an opportunity or need arose neither party would feel bad about reaching out or being reached out to. After all, a positive outcome will likely be mutual. I used to think that networking involved going to conferences and shaking hands with strangers in hallways while exchanging business cards. This was terrifying because I knew I’d be bad at it. I was pleasantly surprised at being wrong.
  - Balgair 6y ago
    I think the old saying goes something like: When you want money, ask for advice. When you want advice, ask for money.
- gregsadetsky 6y ago
  Hey! You might want to look into the public Creative Developers slack -- http://creative-dev.herokuapp.com/ http://creative-dev.herokuapp.com/ -- there's a good community there. Also, look into what the School for Poetic Computation is doing -- https://sfpc.io/ https://sfpc.io/ Happy to send you (a lot) more references / ideas of places to which you could apply, digital artist centers to follow, etc. Reach out! (email in profile) Oh, and also -- https://www.recurse.com/ https://www.recurse.com/ :-) Cheers
hhs 6y ago
> “it’s easier to narrate your failures once you’ve emerged victorious”. This is similar to survivorship bias, and its relationship to cause and effect stories.
keanebean86 6y ago
I've been rejected by Google once, Amazon like 10 time (I even had an onsight in 2017), Facebook once, and Microsoft once. Apple didn't even say they didn't want me.
emit_time 6y ago
I had 11 onsites (over the course of 6-8 months) at mostly normal tech companies before getting an offer at a FAANG. Now I've been here 6 months. Really crazy, and I have no idea how this ended up happening. Probably a combination of studying more and getting better with every interview, finding my weaknesses and fixing them. Along with a combination of bad luck with getting rejected so many times, and good luck with the final acceptance of where I am. Interesting thing is that I think my offer was more towards the higher end of band for this company, so who knows.

4cao 6y ago

"So, what have you failed at this week?"

z33k 6y ago
I failed my real analysis II exam, I failed to make progress at the gym, I failed a quiz on agile software development, I guess you could even say I failed to go on a date since I got stood up.
- Jugurtha 6y ago
  You can check out https://mirtitles.org https://mirtitles.org for books from MIR Publishers. These are amazing books. For analysis, you can check out: - "Problems in Mathematical Analysis" - Demidovich - "Differential and Integral Calculus" - Piskunov - "A Course of Higher Mathematics" - Smirnov Excellent books. [Link edited as I posted in a hurry. Thank you, sedeki]
  - sedeki 6y ago
    Correct link seems to be https://mirtitles.org https://mirtitles.org. Thank you.
  - TheTrotters 6y ago
    Soviet era math problem books? Buy a few reams of paper too!
    - Jugurtha 6y ago
      Exactly. I actually did buy reams of paper and quantified my revisions days with how many sheets I had written. I made booklets folding A4 paper longitudinally in half. Easy to put in my back pocket. Solve problems everywhere. It's more economical, too, a lot of paper is not filled with ink if you leave it in A4, and folding it to make A5 doesn't sole the problem (short lines) an is impractical to carry (can't put in back pocket).
- colmvp 6y ago

Droobfest 6y ago

humblebrag, they're all high status positions

gnfargbl 6y ago
Deputy Director jobs in the UK Civil Service aren’t actually that senior. They tend to pay around £75k, or $100k US, which is a pretty decent wage for the general population but not quite at levels.fyi rates.
- qmmmur 6y ago
  Sorry since when is over double the median wage 'decent'. Some people on this forum have their head in their arses when it comes to money.
  - bkanber 6y ago
    If you're in a certain industry, you're typically looking at the median in that industry and not the national median. USD $100k is ~4 year experience software engineer salary.
    - foldr 6y ago
      >USD $100k is ~4 year experience software engineer salary. Not in the UK, though.
      - simsla 6y ago
        Point still stands. UK software engineer median wages are above UK national median wages.
        foldr 6y ago
        Yes, but 100k USD is a very high (though not impossibly high) wage for a software engineer in London. In the US it's an unremarkable salary in major tech hubs.

MichaelZuo 6y ago

It takes courage to share your failures publicly so kudos. Though the part about “CTO of a large government department” seems like a role that depends more on length of tenure and knowing the right people. Something that a headhunter would reach out for serious candidates.

iandinwoodie 6y ago

I got a good laugh out of the Meta-Failures section.

amzo 6y ago

I can't even remember the 80-85 jobs I've applied for in the last 7 months.

giantg2 6y ago
When I got out of college, I applied to about 250 jobs and only got 3 calls. Luckily one of those did pan out. I keep hearing how there's a war for technical talent. I guess I don't have any.
- thedufer 6y ago
  I think the problem is not that there isn't enough if it (this may or may not be true) but more that it is very hard to figure out where it is. There are probably a good number of people who aren't presenting themselves well, despite having the talent, and get lost in the many applicants that don't seem to know how to program at all. Finding the right people is really hard. I do think the need for technical talent is there, though - I've had a very different experience from what you describe.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    To add some more detail, my experience was during the mortgage meltdown and fallout from that. I agree with your perspective. I also think there are issues on the recruiting side. Sometimes it seems like they don't know what they need and they just list a ton of unnecessary stuff in the list of required skills.
    - bradlys 6y ago
      I had a similar experience but during 2014-2016. It’s very common with new grads to spend 6+ months applying to get a job (even if you have internships or work experience). Almost no companies will take the risk due to whatever stigma. It took me about 2 years after college until I got steady employment. I think I had sent over 750 apps and interviewed at over 100 companies. Most of the time they were trying to get a senior software engineer (5+ years xp) but considered me because I was probably one of the only people who had applied to their place. My interviewing skills were/are still garbage compared to the competition though.

x87678r 6y ago

Its fascinating because you see people get new jobs all the time but you never really know how many they applied for. I'm still not sure if my colleagues just apply for a few jobs they want and get them or apply for 100 and get just one or two.

minkzilla 6y ago
New grad who spent 6 months applying for jobs everyday checking in. I got rejected/never heard from 120+ companies. Of those probably 25 I spent time actually writing a cover letter and tailoring my resume to. Finally got a job at an amazing company for good compensation and I love my job!

zxcvbn4038 6y ago

I once applied for a position building digital kiosks for American Airlines - I did not get it and in retrospect that is probably better because the company is always on the edge on bankruptcy, doing furloughs and layoffs, etc. I would have had a hard time during numerous financial downturns and world events like mortgage bubble, 9/11, and COVID. I would never have worked for Tumblr which was double plus awesome. But just the same, every time I check in at a kiosk in the airport I think to myself - I could have done this much better - and lament the missed opportunity.

scrose 6y ago
It’s only a missed opportunity if you think you’d get approval to improve the screens! I’ve indirectly worked with American on their screens, and I’m not so sure improving UX is their top priority.
trentnix 6y ago
I had a (scheduled as such) short consulting stint at AA back in ‘09. Horrible experience. I wouldn’t work there if they doubled my salary and let me take Fridays off.

ibn_khaldun 6y ago

The opportunity even to fail at achieving the positions and distinctions listed is a privilege itself. Granted, it isn't the duty of one particular demographic or class to police how another responds to these sort of things because we're all human and have the right to express how we feel about rejection and not meeting the expectations set by ourselves or others. I can understand and appreciate how this can be a boon to the esteem of their peers. But let's take it a step further. Is there a way that the authors of these "CV of failures" can bridge the gap between themselves and those who may not even have a "curriculum" to ascribe to their life?

djhworld 6y ago

It's amusing looking back at the failed ones, at the time it feels terrible, but as time passes it becomes an footnote of your own personal history. My favourite one was sitting in a conference room in a hotel basement being interviewed by a FAANG for 5 hours. Completely bombed the interview but it makes me laugh looking back at it

100-xyz 6y ago

I had a first interview for Product Manager for Google about a week ago and got the reject couple of days back. The recruiter said it was close. I played back the interview in my head and realized I could have been more methodical in my answers. Finally, just decided to let go. In the end its just a footnote.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
> The recruiter said it was close. Is this something a recruiter might ever not say?
- rudolph9 6y ago
  For an in-house recruiter, yes. They generally say that because they want you to interview again in the future. I don’t think they would waste their time if it wasn’t close. Head hunters on the other hand will generally say anything to get you to keep interviewing.

Tade0 6y ago

I have a folder with over 30 screenshots of job listings for all the positions I applied for last year. Took me almost two months to find employment and in hindsight my greatest mistake was to bother with all that in November - companies started replying only in December when apparently they were finished with planning for the next quarter. I'm seeing the same phenomenon now that again I'm looking to get hired - I currently have one offer on the table and at least three other interviews even though a month ago the best what I could hope for was a canned response rejecting my application.

quantumwoke 6y ago

OP is clearly trying to get a job in government. I hate to say it, and I mean this with the least amount of offence possible, but typically UK government jobs require you to look the part more than having sufficient technical knowledge. OP is applying for deputy head of governmental departments without the required background experience and to my untrained eye, the gravitas required. Perhaps a trip to the barber is warranted. Otherwise, great post! :)

Kosirich 6y ago

I'm currently working at a very well known international company where I got hired after getting rejected from a significant number (+50) of big international companies and a good number of local ones (by local I mean from my small EU country). Strangely or perhaps completely understandable, getting rejected from the local companies 'hurt' more as I was aware that the pool of candidates was significantly smaller, there was no culture issue and it felt personal when rejection email was extremely late or non existent. I pull my hat down for the people who can be completely transparent in their 'failures'. I do wonder though, if the motivation behind the 'failures-cv' is to send a sort of a message to the companies and grant boards mentioned in it, when it's done after the person writing it has had significant success. By message I mean sort of 'look guys, I'm doing relatively ok and you didn't even call me for an interview'. Also, the article sparked an idea. Perhaps a good 'heuristic' for judging companies hiring processes and especially governmental ones would be to look at not only CVs of people getting hired but also those that get rejected. Part of that thinking comes from a conversation with one of my managers who said that sometimes he has a look at CV-s classified as 'C' (he get's only A & B from HR) and he wonders why some of them were not in the A and B group.

sokoloff 6y ago
The sorting of resumes into A B and C piles is incredibly noisy. I could look at the same resume on two different days and reach a different conclusion, especially for an A<->B or B<->C transition, so it’s easy for me to see how someone else could reach a different bucketing.

rodolphoarruda 6y ago

Reminded me of a friend who had applied to over 1,000 job openings in LinkedIn in 2019 and got zero response from them. Then he decided to take the risk and run his own business, which is starting to gain some traction right now after the covid crisis.

denysvitali 6y ago
Would it be nice if you can link it here though, just saying (:
rudolph9 6y ago
Zero responses or zero offers? I find it hard to imagine not one of the 1000 positions he applied to wouldn’t even bother to respond provided he is qualified (or even in the ballpark) for the the job.

brogrammernot 6y ago

GoDaddy rejected me a year after I applied and only realized it when a recruiter was trying to input me into their system. I took great pride in informing her that a) I made more than their proposed offer and b) I’d never work for a company who couldn’t operate with basic human decency in their recruiting process. Because of that experience, I make it a point that every single candidate deserves a yes or no response and the company I work for has kept that up.

dominotw 6y ago
> I took great pride in informing her that a) I made more than their proposed offer and b) I’d never work for a company who couldn’t operate with basic human decency in their recruiting process. I used to work in tech recruiting. I guarantee you 100%, no one cares. As a candidate your only option is to move on or write a bad glassdoor if you are so inclined and move on.
- andreareina 6y ago
  I'm on the interviewer's side of the table and we absolutely do care.
- tremon 6y ago
  It's never silly to inform someone when they fail basic human decency.
- Aqua 6y ago
  Well, it tells a lot about how much you(and probably your management) care about your job. My org was once hiring for a tech position, it was a new role, we weren't exactly sure if the process was right and one candidate sent us an email criticising the process and interviewers. We have apologised and thanked for the feedback, which was brought onboard and used to calibrate and improve the process further. Not every company is the same. Besides, when we have received that kind of message it immediately raised some red flags. What if the candidate complains on glassdoor or other social media? It would damage our reputation. And frankly speaking, GoDaddy doesn't exactly have a good reputation.
- 6y ago

henvic 6y ago

The last time I got rejected was after the final interview. The recruiter scheduled a call to talk with me without letting me know they had an offer. I could only have imagined they'd be making an offer. He thanked me for the time and told me why they decided to reject me, and that they'd likely reconsider me in six months. I'd rather receive an email telling upfront I was rejected instead (still would be happy to schedule a call).

rudolph9 6y ago
I’ve gotten three of these calls in the last 6 months. I learned after the first one not to get too excited and grown to appreciate actually getting feedback. I can’t stand the interviews where you invest a significant amount of time and get zero feedback. I realize they often don’t want to share everything but give me something so I have some direction for improvement.

some0x80070005 6y ago

App

rco8786 6y ago

I remember getting rejected by Google because I completely blanked on a binary search question. All my other rounds were great, but you can’t miss the search question at the search company.

bradlys 6y ago
I mean, you can’t miss any question at the big companies. There are endless candidates who have done 1000+ problems on leetcode in the waiting.
- nullsense 6y ago
  Its less an interview more an exam where the only acceptable mark is about 95% to 100%
macjohnmcc 6y ago
I worked at Microsoft for a while a couple decades ago. I reapplied a few years ago and got through three developers reviewing me and the PM but didn't get the job. It can be disappointing if you really want to work somewhere badly. I still do but not sure if I will get a chance to interview there again.

ryanSrich 6y ago

My final interview with AWS for a Sr PdM role went so poorly that they told me I had to wait 12 months to apply again. I feel like that’s some sort of accomplishment on its own.

rudolph9 6y ago
They probably have a standard period to wait. Is this significantly longer than what other people have encountered?
- lostcolony 6y ago
  All the FAANGs do, though it sometimes varies. A year is typical though (and I think at different times in their hiring cycle it varies, too). For one FAANG, I had 3/5s my interview panel all clearly very positive about me, and 2/5s who clearly did not care from the very first minute of the interview, and the internal recruiter was like "Let's talk again in a year". Like, the implication clearly being he expected a pass, it was just luck of the draw on the panel. But even with that, year 'cooling off' period.
- ryanSrich 6y ago
  Potentially. The person who replied to you before me said it’s standard, but I remember reading online somewhere at the time that 6 months was the cool off period.

soneca 6y ago

My list of recent jobs I failed to get is about 200 unglamorous mid-level roles in small unknown companies that I applied through the last 2 months. 90% of them I was rejected on the resume filter. About 5 rejections after an intro interview. About more 5 or more rejections after a technical interview/coding challenge. Only 2 places on a final interview with chances of offers as of now (luckily in companies that I believe I would enjoy working). If I were to publish such a blog post it would be more depressing and probably make me look like a bad developer (at least a bad candidate), not like someone who is “open about failure”.

nullsense 6y ago
I seem to apply to a about 3 to 5 places and get an offer within that. I can't imagine 200. Though I work on a team with a guy who told me he had to apply to about 80 places. I've read his CV and it doesn't have a lot of signals that scream hire me. His pathway into software engineering is very non-typical. Despite that he's a decent developer and a great colleague.
- soneca 6y ago
  The reasons I believe impact my poor performance: - Graduated in Brazil (nobody knows my university) - Graduated in non-CS degree - Self-taught developer after careeer change with 37 yo (used freeCodeCamp.org, not even a known boot camp) - No famous (in the US) companies in my resume Probably more things that I don’t know. I have a similar numbers of interviews coming from my “Who wants to be hired” post [0] and from these ~200 applications [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24343085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24343085
  - nullsense 6y ago
    Yeah, that makes sense.
kamaal 6y ago
When I started out I worked at a call center(A tech support center). When I interviewed there, I went in through a hiring consultant. I met a girl there who had failed in interviews in like some 40 companies and then finally got hired in our batch. From what I know she went on to do some amazing things. This always brings me some perspective on the merits or acceptance or rejection in any process. Getting rejected any number times means nothing at all. People interviewing candidates are no better than the candidate, and in many cases not even as good as the candidate. Even if they were better it wouldn't matter, 1 hour is barely any time to judge any one and any decision you are likely to make even a 'yes' decision will never be 100% right. Even a hire decision doesn't mean you are awesome. Plus a person measuring their worth based on job interviews is totally wrong. We like to think that people wish to hire people at least as good as them, if not better. In reality no one likes people better than them, and they'd rather not have some one better than them at work. They will be hiring competition responsible for them not getting raises, bonuses, promotions or RSU's. You are more likely to get rejected being good than bad. If I've learned anything at all its the Clinton principle How many chances does one get? As much as one is willing to take Pretty much any rejection any where means nothing. I'm not saying one must not take them seriously enough to improve oneself. But there is not need to get depressed or under evaluating yourself. Just be chipping away at a good system of improving yourself in never ending cycles.

trentnix 6y ago

I think that people need to be more open about failure. Rejection isn't necessarily failure. I appreciate that the article is about objective self-evaluation and self-improvement, but that requires a good understanding of why you really didn't get the job. And it's possible the feedback you are getting is not the whole story. Back in 2003 I was a young C++/C/Java developer with a couple of years of experience looking for a new job in a new town. I felt like I was talented and capable and was hungry to prove myself. It was a tougher market in those days so I was applying anywhere that posted a job that seemed like a fit. I got rejected time and time again and most of the time I didn't even get a rejection. I never even heard back at all. I was ignored. It was demoralizing. I knew if I could just get an interview, I'd have a great shot at a good job. But I couldn't even get an interview. I felt like a failure. I finally landed a C++ gig at a company I accidentally applied to twice (they gave me an interview because they thought I was resilient). It turned out to be a great experience. I got to tackle hard problems, learned a lot, and was promoted quickly. I was soon managing the team I was originally hired to write code for. After a few years of that I was headhunted to work for a consulting firm that specialized in what later became DevOps (we were pushing CI/CD back in 2006 and automated virtualization for build and test in 2007). As part of that job, I ended up with a few gigs at companies that had rejected me only a few years before. Here I was telling them how to make software at 4 times the rate they could have hired me for full time just a few years earlier. I'd won! But really, I learned most of these companies hadn't hired me for reasons that had nothing to do with me. I didn't know who I was competing with. I didn't know what specific traits they valued. I didn't understand the stresses and risk and pressure those hiring managers were under when they compared the PDF I submitted to the PDF someone else submitted. For example, the company that hired me after I applied twice rejected me first because I was from out of town. They had so many bad experiences with hiring and firing that they didn't want to hire someone that had to move to take the job. They were actually being considerate of my risk, not just their own. They thought they were doing me a favor! And in a few of companies I was now consulting for, I saw poor culture, poor talent, poor processes, and poor hiring practices. I saw HR people filtering out prospects because that person's resume didn't have everything on some magic, unadvertised checklist. I saw politics. I saw bias. I saw incompetence. Some of these places wouldn't have been able to spot talent if their lives depended on it. Really, I wasn't the one that failed when I was rejected. They had failed by rejecting the wrong people. And I was fortunate they'd rejected me because it would have been an awful place to work. Rejection is God's protection, I've heard it said. So rejection wasn't failure. It usually had nothing at all to do with what I really could do or couldn't do. If I failed, it was in allowing rejection to affect my self-worth. After running my own business for almost a decade, I'm back in the software industry. I'm fortunate to have a good job thanks to people I worked with previously, but I'm hungry for bigger challenges and believe I have the skills and capability to meet them. Except now I have a 9-year "hole" in my resume that doesn't say Google/Microsoft/Facebook or AWS/Azure/Cloud or whatever else the cool kids are doing. From a hiring manager's perspective at those great jobs that attract lots of talented candidates, that means I'm a risk. But having been that hiring manager, having owned my own business, and having spent time in the trenches, I understand and sympathize. Rejection isn't personal and it's not always about me.

mgkimsal 6y ago

> I think that people need to be more open about failure. None of us are perfect – despite what our social media presence says – and all of us suffer rejection. But, by being open and honest about it, we make it easier for others to realise that they’re not alone. Yes BUT... I haven't been in too many situations where I've been actively looking for employment/engagements, but some of the times I've been in those situations, everything was bad. It's difficult to go back and 'share' those with people - publicly - as it brings back a lot of bad memories of those time periods. Low funds or debt, downsizing, loss of friends/community, home/life issues, family issues, whatever. Scenarios where someone is looking for a job are often stressful, and that often can spread out for months, and affect the family and friends around you. I'm happy to share extreme details of my situations with people in person, offer up support and give advice and insight about someone's situation by drawing on my own experiences, but... typically only in person. Publicly... generally not. There's not just 'shame' issues for yourself; when you have a family, posting information about your failures can have an impact on your family as well, which they may not want.

acomjean 6y ago

If you been at more than a few jobs, almost certainly you have had failures/ disasterous interviews. I certainly have. Once I’ve gotten a job, a question coworker asked: how did some of these other people around me get through the interview process.

didip 6y ago

Rejection is a fact of life, be it in relationships or in a job hunting. Just give yourself some time to go through the sad period, and then power through the next one. Luck is a high factor in getting a job anyway.

susansrants 6y ago

If you find this interesting you may also appreciate: Susan Tan Rants and Ruminations From A Job Applicant After 100 CS Job Interviews in Silicon Valley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzz5AaCWMps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzz5AaCWMps My recent job search adventures https://medium.com/@arctansusan/my-adventures-in-job-searching-for-senior-engineer-roles-7050e1c2b1a5 https://medium.com/@arctansusan/my-adventures-in-job-searchi... I really liked the airtable at the end of that post: https://airtable.com/shrL4aSSKldQHTtM3 https://airtable.com/shrL4aSSKldQHTtM3

bradenb 6y ago

It's a lot easier to accept rejection when you give up on the idea that you're a rock star. I think I do good work and so do my coworkers. Knowing that is enough for me. It's OK if I get rejected by the big boys.

mdturnerphys 6y ago

I like this quoted response: You have reached the required standard, but we are unable to offer you a job immediately. We have placed you on a reserve list from which future appointments may be made. When I was leaving academia it took a number of rejections before I realized that I wasn't being rejected because I wasn't qualified, but because the company only had one spot and I wasn't their top choice.

cushychicken 6y ago

Lots of comments about how people are only transparent about their failures after they're successful. There are plenty of reasons to conceal the failures in real time, but the two that jump to mind for me are: 1) not wanting your current employer to know you're looking, and 2) not wanting to advertise that you've been rejected to other future job prospects. (Could prime people into wondering "What's wrong with this candidate?" if you don't make it somewhere else.)

brian_herman 6y ago

All of my jobs: My first job was at Jewel as a bagger. My mom got me the job. The place was next to microcenter so I spent my paycheck there after work. I quit this job because of stress. Next job was at Michael’s a crafts store. It was seasonal and I didn’t get hired. After that I did contract jobs on upwork doing web design and development. I got fired from Subway because I was too slow at making sandwiches. In college I got burned out and eventually found my career as a programmer for an insurance company.

kra34 6y ago

A serious and urgent question, when did "data" a collective noun warrant a plural verb ex. "the data are ambiguous" "Data" was not treated this way in the past and now it is everywhere. Where did it come from and why did it change?

abhayb 6y ago
Data has always been plural! Datum is the singular. But actually treating it as plural is mostly a question of where the person speaking/writing is based. Americans treat it as singular, Brits plural. See also, corporations
- kazinator 6y ago
  Note that in the English language, there is a rule in regard to forming compound nouns, which is that only the head of the compound can carry the plural marker. So for instance, whereas the compound noun phrase "law school entrance exams" is perfectly fine, "law schools entrance exam" is not. It has a plural on "schools", where it is not allowed to be, because that is not the head of the noun phrase. According to this rule, we should not have words like "data processing", unless we treat "data" as plural. If we treat "data" as the plural of "datum", we must make it "datum processing". Is that how it is in British English, or do they still make it "data processing"? In any case, one cannot be a proper pedant about "data" and "datum", while continuing to use terms like "data storage".
- kra34 6y ago
  From a random internet site: " The data are correct. But most people treat 'data' as a singular noun, especially when talking about computers etc. For example:- The data is being transferred from my computer to yours. And I have to be honest, I've never heard anyone ask for a datum. " It could be the case that the scientific pluralization is leaking into regular usage because more people are collectively reading / reporting on scientific studies. Alternatively, Google / Grammarly and similar tools might be suggesting it because it's been seen in their training data / examples. In any case, IMHO 'datum' is a singular point of information, any reference to multiple points of information would make the noun plural.

Wintereise 6y ago

Seeing posts like these, I feel incredibly grateful to have a personal network that I've never really had to go beyond in search of a job. Networking in the early years as a young founder paid off big time.

juancn 6y ago

I've never been rejected in a job I interviewed for, but I tend to stay a long time once I find one I like. Is that so unusual? I'm really picky about jobs. I hardly never interview unless I think we're going to be a good match (me and the job) and that there's something I can bring to the table.