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So we have the cheaper alternatives of Adobe Photoshop which are Affinity Photo and Gimp. How hard is to build the equivalent of "Affinity Photo" to Autodesk F

So we have the cheaper alternatives of Adobe Photoshop which are Affinity Photo and Gimp. How hard is to build the equivalent of "Affinity Photo" to Autodesk Fusion 360? Maybe this is a good startup idea.

cassianoleal 6y ago
FreeCAD, OpenSCAD are FOSS alternatives. For "free as in beer" there's OnShape with the caveat that all your projects in the free tier are public, and that it runs on the browser or via mobile apps. The iPadOS app has Apple Pencil support which is pretty neat.
- brudgers 6y ago
  There is also BRLCad which is in the public domain.
- IshKebab 6y ago
  Unfortunately FreeCAD is kind of unusable (in the same way that KiCAD is), and OpenSCAD isn't an alternative at all. The only decent FOSS parametric CAD software I've found is SolveSpace, but it is quite limited, e.g. it doesn't even have a bevel tool, and there's no CAM. It's pretty much the Notepad of CAD. CAD is just one of those things that is too complicated and niche for FOSS to do well.
  - oogway8020 6y ago
    Cadquery is a very nice python only API, based on the OpenCascade, much better API then FreeCAD. So someone looking to make parametric models via code, I think it's the best option out there.
  - mrfusion 6y ago
    What are the limitations of openscad?
    - skykooler 6y ago
      The biggest one is that everything is done via, essentially, writing a program that creates the geometry; there's no interaction with a GUI.
    - IshKebab 6y ago
      It's fine for making stuff that is highly parametric and procedural, like gears and fasteners. You wouldn't want to design anything else with it though, like a car or a pen or a gun.
  - jbay808 6y ago
    > CAD is just one of those things that is too complicated and niche for FOSS to do well. It's arguably too complicated for hackers to do well in their spare time, but there are plenty of FOSS projects in similarly complicated niche areas. The most successful ones tend to have companies or consortiums backing them, who aren't looking to make money on the softare itself but have it complement or support their other activities. OpenModelica for one example. I always wonder why a consortium of big manufacturers (say Ford, Caterpillar, Hitachi, etc) don't just throw their weight behind some FOSS CAD initiative and get something standard that they can rely on forever. I don't think it would cost them more than 3rd party software in the long run.
    - qppo 6y ago
      > I always wonder why a consortium of big manufacturers (say Ford, Caterpillar, Hitachi, etc) don't just throw their weight behind some FOSS CAD initiative and get something standard that they can rely on forever. The problem for these businesses is that their internal CAD libraries are essentially proprietary tooling, they don't have an interest in making it open source, and much of the tooling around those libraries and software packages is proprietary or patented. It's kind of analogous to Qualcomm's stranglehold over cellular communications. If you don't pay them you're also throwing away decades of IP and tooling around it, and lose interoperability.
    - dotancohen 6y ago
      > in the long run That's your answer. Seriously. People have taken the initiative and talked to the engineering departments and bean counters at large engineering houses (brands you're not familiar with, that do the engineering for e.g. Ford, etc but not the design which is typically in-house). The reasons are A) short term cost with no benefit, B) having to train staff, and C) compatibility with extant files. Not only will the current staff have to be retrained but nobody can be hired with experience with the tool.
- incanus77 6y ago
  I would highly recommend the Joko Engineering series of FreeCAD YouTube videos. I went from being pretty adept at OpenSCAD to getting FreeCAD to "click" by watching this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geSQlBczsWY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geSQlBczsWY After that, I spent a month last year doing a daily household item challenge, which really leveled up my skills and now there's no turning back. https://twitter.com/hashtag/30DayCADChallenge?f=live https://twitter.com/hashtag/30DayCADChallenge?f=live
qppo 6y ago
It's a great startup idea, almost guaranteed exit through acquisition by Autodesk et al.
japanuspus 6y ago
Obligatory comment to anything related to parametric 3D modelling: Have a look at [solvespace], which is a GPL3 cross-platform standalone parametric modeller with an awesome hacker-feel. If you drop by github to look at the code, make sure to check out some of the other awesome projects by @whiteshark (who is one of the authors). [solvespace]: http://solvespace.com/index.pl http://solvespace.com/index.pl
- abakker 6y ago
  As far as integrated CAD/CAM, I've never seen anything as nice to use as Fusion on the OSS side. Honestly, I'll just end up paying. It pisses me off that they managed this so poorly, and even more that their pricing tiers include so much BS. Oh well.
- app4soft 6y ago
  Fully agree. SolveSpace is awesome for daily engineering![0] > make sure to check out some of the other awesome projects by @whiteshark Typo Fix: @whitequark[1] [0] https://github.com/Symbian9/SolveSpace-Daily-Engineering https://github.com/Symbian9/SolveSpace-Daily-Engineering [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whitequark https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whitequark
PascLeRasc 6y ago
Fusion 360 was the Sketch/Figma answer to SolidWorks/Adobe, and I think it still can be. I’ve seen some absolutely amazing CAM work done in Fusion and I love using it. It’s so easy to get started actually making stuff in it. We’ll see about the limitations but right now they don’t seem too severe.
JeremyHerrman 6y ago
> How hard is to build the equivalent of "Affinity Photo" to Autodesk Fusion 360? Maybe this is a good startup idea. Answer: It's extremely hard to build any equivalent to Fusion 360 or any full featured CAD/CAM tool. This is not a weekend hackathon problem! There are so many fundamental building blocks, with many requiring teams of PhDs to produce: CAD kernels, constraint solvers, file format interop, sketching tools, assembly support (mating), simulation, etc... Not to mention the manufacturing specific modeling tools for sheet metal, generative design for milling & 3D printing.
- langitbiru 6y ago
  So it can be considered as hard as building VR headset (Oculus)? Is it what we call a moonshot project?
  - JeremyHerrman 6y ago
    If you want to build each individual piece without licensing from Siemens/Dassault, then yes this would compare to a moonshot. Parasolid, the CAD kernel owned by Siemens, is more than 30 years old at this point. The same amount of effort has gone into many of the other building blocks as well. OPENCASCADE is a FOSS CAD kernel but doesn't work well for real CAD, and support is hard to come by for companies building on it. Most startups tend to license these tools instead of building them, but that comes at a large cost that must be pushed down to customers, hence the $$$$ cost of CAD today.
    - mywittyname 6y ago
      They also have a massive global team of really brilliant people working on NX and the related components. I'm talking former NASA employees who worked on components for the space shuttle or Mars rovers work there. That's the kind of expertise you can't really buy or acquire as an OSS project. Plus, they are not shy about acquisitions. It's how they maintain their dominance. Any company that builds a remotely useful product in that space will find themselves sitting in front of a Big Fucking Check that's going to be hard to turn down. Anyone who turns it down will probably find themselves sitting in front of several patent lawsuits all over the world.

cassianoleal 6y ago

FreeCAD, OpenSCAD are FOSS alternatives. For "free as in beer" there's OnShape with the caveat that all your projects in the free tier are public, and that it runs on the browser or via mobile apps. The iPadOS app has Apple Pencil support which is pretty neat.

brudgers 6y ago
There is also BRLCad which is in the public domain.
IshKebab 6y ago
Unfortunately FreeCAD is kind of unusable (in the same way that KiCAD is), and OpenSCAD isn't an alternative at all. The only decent FOSS parametric CAD software I've found is SolveSpace, but it is quite limited, e.g. it doesn't even have a bevel tool, and there's no CAM. It's pretty much the Notepad of CAD. CAD is just one of those things that is too complicated and niche for FOSS to do well.
- oogway8020 6y ago
  Cadquery is a very nice python only API, based on the OpenCascade, much better API then FreeCAD. So someone looking to make parametric models via code, I think it's the best option out there.
- mrfusion 6y ago
  What are the limitations of openscad?
  - skykooler 6y ago
    The biggest one is that everything is done via, essentially, writing a program that creates the geometry; there's no interaction with a GUI.
  - IshKebab 6y ago
    It's fine for making stuff that is highly parametric and procedural, like gears and fasteners. You wouldn't want to design anything else with it though, like a car or a pen or a gun.
- jbay808 6y ago
  > CAD is just one of those things that is too complicated and niche for FOSS to do well. It's arguably too complicated for hackers to do well in their spare time, but there are plenty of FOSS projects in similarly complicated niche areas. The most successful ones tend to have companies or consortiums backing them, who aren't looking to make money on the softare itself but have it complement or support their other activities. OpenModelica for one example. I always wonder why a consortium of big manufacturers (say Ford, Caterpillar, Hitachi, etc) don't just throw their weight behind some FOSS CAD initiative and get something standard that they can rely on forever. I don't think it would cost them more than 3rd party software in the long run.
  - qppo 6y ago
    > I always wonder why a consortium of big manufacturers (say Ford, Caterpillar, Hitachi, etc) don't just throw their weight behind some FOSS CAD initiative and get something standard that they can rely on forever. The problem for these businesses is that their internal CAD libraries are essentially proprietary tooling, they don't have an interest in making it open source, and much of the tooling around those libraries and software packages is proprietary or patented. It's kind of analogous to Qualcomm's stranglehold over cellular communications. If you don't pay them you're also throwing away decades of IP and tooling around it, and lose interoperability.
  - dotancohen 6y ago
    > in the long run That's your answer. Seriously. People have taken the initiative and talked to the engineering departments and bean counters at large engineering houses (brands you're not familiar with, that do the engineering for e.g. Ford, etc but not the design which is typically in-house). The reasons are A) short term cost with no benefit, B) having to train staff, and C) compatibility with extant files. Not only will the current staff have to be retrained but nobody can be hired with experience with the tool.
incanus77 6y ago
I would highly recommend the Joko Engineering series of FreeCAD YouTube videos. I went from being pretty adept at OpenSCAD to getting FreeCAD to "click" by watching this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geSQlBczsWY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geSQlBczsWY After that, I spent a month last year doing a daily household item challenge, which really leveled up my skills and now there's no turning back. https://twitter.com/hashtag/30DayCADChallenge?f=live https://twitter.com/hashtag/30DayCADChallenge?f=live

qppo 6y ago

It's a great startup idea, almost guaranteed exit through acquisition by Autodesk et al.

japanuspus 6y ago

Obligatory comment to anything related to parametric 3D modelling: Have a look at [solvespace], which is a GPL3 cross-platform standalone parametric modeller with an awesome hacker-feel. If you drop by github to look at the code, make sure to check out some of the other awesome projects by @whiteshark (who is one of the authors). [solvespace]: http://solvespace.com/index.pl http://solvespace.com/index.pl

abakker 6y ago
As far as integrated CAD/CAM, I've never seen anything as nice to use as Fusion on the OSS side. Honestly, I'll just end up paying. It pisses me off that they managed this so poorly, and even more that their pricing tiers include so much BS. Oh well.
app4soft 6y ago
Fully agree. SolveSpace is awesome for daily engineering![0] > make sure to check out some of the other awesome projects by @whiteshark Typo Fix: @whitequark[1] [0] https://github.com/Symbian9/SolveSpace-Daily-Engineering https://github.com/Symbian9/SolveSpace-Daily-Engineering [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whitequark https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=whitequark

PascLeRasc 6y ago

Fusion 360 was the Sketch/Figma answer to SolidWorks/Adobe, and I think it still can be. I’ve seen some absolutely amazing CAM work done in Fusion and I love using it. It’s so easy to get started actually making stuff in it. We’ll see about the limitations but right now they don’t seem too severe.

JeremyHerrman 6y ago

> How hard is to build the equivalent of "Affinity Photo" to Autodesk Fusion 360? Maybe this is a good startup idea. Answer: It's extremely hard to build any equivalent to Fusion 360 or any full featured CAD/CAM tool. This is not a weekend hackathon problem! There are so many fundamental building blocks, with many requiring teams of PhDs to produce: CAD kernels, constraint solvers, file format interop, sketching tools, assembly support (mating), simulation, etc... Not to mention the manufacturing specific modeling tools for sheet metal, generative design for milling & 3D printing.

langitbiru 6y ago
So it can be considered as hard as building VR headset (Oculus)? Is it what we call a moonshot project?
- JeremyHerrman 6y ago
  If you want to build each individual piece without licensing from Siemens/Dassault, then yes this would compare to a moonshot. Parasolid, the CAD kernel owned by Siemens, is more than 30 years old at this point. The same amount of effort has gone into many of the other building blocks as well. OPENCASCADE is a FOSS CAD kernel but doesn't work well for real CAD, and support is hard to come by for companies building on it. Most startups tend to license these tools instead of building them, but that comes at a large cost that must be pushed down to customers, hence the $$$$ cost of CAD today.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    They also have a massive global team of really brilliant people working on NX and the related components. I'm talking former NASA employees who worked on components for the space shuttle or Mars rovers work there. That's the kind of expertise you can't really buy or acquire as an OSS project. Plus, they are not shy about acquisitions. It's how they maintain their dominance. Any company that builds a remotely useful product in that space will find themselves sitting in front of a Big Fucking Check that's going to be hard to turn down. Anyone who turns it down will probably find themselves sitting in front of several patent lawsuits all over the world.