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Do you have any argument for it or is it a generic statement independent of anything? Because there have been other 'fads' still being strong today. Kubernete
by Keycap 6y ago
Do you have any argument for it or is it a generic statement independent of anything?
Because there have been other 'fads' still being strong today.
Kubernetes solves real problems which have been hard for a long time. Its the first thing you, as an infrastructure team, want to have to be able to provide your teams a manageable environment for yourself.
mesos, nomad, docker swarm and co.
Developers don't want a VM and you can't manage and maintain VMs if someone else is doing something with them.
Cloud native is here to stay; It will affect and already affects tools, applications and architecture.
- secondcoming 6y ago> Developers don't want a VM and you can't manage and maintain VMs if someone else is doing something with them. I want a VM because I want my dev environment to exactly replicate the production environment, down to the kernel. It also means that if I leave my employer I can just delete my VM on my personal machine. We've also not had any issues with maintaining production VMs, our release pipeline packages up our code into a debian package and them creates a VM image from that. This is then deployed across all regions. If you need to roll back just deploy the previous VM image version. GCP handles killing old instances and starting new instances for you.
- Keycap 6y agoI did not talk about your specific use case. Feel free to be happy with your setup. Also i'm not able to determine if your setup would still be much better (faster, easier to maintain etc.) if you would set completly on containers instead of a VM as i'm not aware of your workload at all.
- auspex 6y agoHaving the application run the same in dev as in production is one of the main selling features of a containerized environment.
- secondcoming 6y agoAs far as I'm aware containers do not replace the kernel, only userland.
- kkapelon 6y agoThis is of course important but only for people who actually need this guarantee. Yes if you are developing C/C++/Assembly then Kubernetes/containers might not be for you. But for several other companies (e.g. Java users) the kernel version is not important. So we are back to same argument. Just because that you personally don't see value in something, doesn't mean that it is a fad.
- pjmlp 6y agoJava users are doing just fine with application containers.
- kkapelon 6y agoThat is a whole different discussion. If by application container you mean Tomcat then maybe. But if you mean Weblogic or Oc4j or WebSphere then hell no :-) Then maybe you agree that Kubernetes brought some advantages that until recently only Java devs enjoyed to the rest of the world (PHP, Python etc)?
- pjmlp 6y agoYes I mean WebSphere. Kubernetes is a kludge to solve problems that should be sorted out by the respective language communities. Then there is the whole issue that interpreters without JIT/AOT should only be used for scripting.
- secondcoming 6y ago> Just because that you personally don't see value in something, doesn't mean that it is a fad GP is the one who made blanket statement 'developers don't want a VM', not me.
- kkapelon 6y ago>We've also not had any issues with maintaining production VMs, ... If you need to roll back just deploy the previous VM image version. ... We've also not had any issues with breeding horses....If I just need to go somewhere I just ride my horse... I don't see any value in cars(k8s). They are complex (oil changes, fuel consumption etc...)
- pjmlp 6y ago> ________ solves real problems which have been hard for a long time. Please replace with Ansible, Chef, Puppet, HP Vault, Solaris Zones, OpenMosix, Bewolf, Grid Computing, MTS, CORBA, JEE ..... An argument based on seeing hype come and go, sellig conferences, books, certifications, consulting, training, and naturally one selfs curriculum. Speaking of which, "Kubernetes Certified Application Developer (CKAD) with Tests" https://www.udemy.com/course/certified-kubernetes-application-developer/ https://www.udemy.com/course/certified-kubernetes-applicatio...
- kkapelon 6y agoSo you are saying that Ansible, Chef and puppet are fads? That solve no real problems? OpenMosix, Bewolf and Grid computing were mostly confined on research circles. I never saw them took off like K8s did. So comparing K8s with OpenMosix is a bit unfair...
- pjmlp 6y agoI am saying that apparently they are not good enough for the Kubernetes generation. Eventually there will come the post-Kubernetes generation and the cycle does yet another turn.
- Keycap 6y ago'Not good enough'? Do you now think progress is bad? Ansible and co did and still do a great job. kubernetes is not just a thing, its also a paradigma shift. It sounds like something new is just bad because its new?