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Don’t bet on Valve. They don’t have a killer business instinct. They take their sweet time to get anything done. Plus their Steam machine “console” idea was cra

by msie 6y ago

Don’t bet on Valve. They don’t have a killer business instinct. They take their sweet time to get anything done. Plus their Steam machine “console” idea was crap, anyone could see that from day one.

rektide 6y ago
It's amazing how shortsighted & wrong one smarmy glib post can be. Valve is kicking ass, leading massive technical charged doing great & fantastic work with none of the typical Service-as-a-Software-Substitute slimeware that everyone else keeps falling to. Great novel hardware with very high bandwidth & compelling input, best if not only useful end user drivers out there as we see with projects like Monado XR that are practically unimaginable elsewhere. You're damned right they don't have a killer business instinct. They have a nurture protect & help instinct. They aren't on inside-out tracking, not yet, they are building far more reliable open systems for outside-in, & that makes them more costly. But you know what you are getting & you know the raw data right out of the sensor is going to be great.
- na85 6y ago
  That's an interesting take. I don't follow the VR market at all, but from my perspective Valve has been resting on their laurels for years. I've read that gaben just sits in his office playing DOTA 2 all day. Until I read your comment I would never have considered describing Valve as "kicking ass". From where I sit they've basically done nothing innovative since Half Life 2.
  - kipchak 6y ago
    Digital item economics/lootboxes/items is a big one[1], they even hired Yanis Varoufakis for a bit. They also did a good deal of the foundational work for VR working with HTC and Oculus. Then there's steam link, Steam controller/SteamOS/Steam Machines, Player created layers in Portal 2, Steak Workshop/Mod support (and paid mods) to name a few. There's a lot of not hits and a lot of not games, but they've been at least doing some stuff. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-I6Qn56QWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-I6Qn56QWI
  - tomc1985 6y ago
    I'd hardly consider the Index and Half-Life Alyx to be "nothing innovative"
  - phaus 6y ago
    >Valve has been resting on their laurels for years. They aren't just a game development company anymore. Their primary product is Steam. If Half-Life Alyx was playable on any PC or console it would have been one of the best selling games of the year. Its only a niche product because, instead of resting on their laurels, they are trying to drive the industry forward. Not only did they make the Index, which is by far the best VR Headset yet, they also supposedly helped HP develop the Reverb G2 that's coming out soon. GabeN likes playing Dota but the idea that he sits around all day playing videogames when he's been building, improving, and expanding a billion dollar gaming empire is ridiculous. There's also the massive progress towards making Linux a viable gaming platform. Really the only thing keeping me on Windows on my gaming system is the fact that most competitive multiplayer games' anti-cheat software can't run on Linux yet. If I played mostly single player games or casual multiplayer I could play almost everything I want to on Linux. IMO they are plenty innovative. I wish they released more games, but aside from gaming they are doing a lot of great things for the gaming community.
  - pfranz 6y ago
    I think it's been easy to miss a lot of Valve's recent work since they haven't been cranking out games. Here are a few things since 2013 when DOTA2 was released: * SteamOS, Steam Machine, Steam Controller, Steam Link (2015) hardware, porting Steam, Source, and tooling to Linux (and patching Linux to improve gaming performance). Cross platform and streaming features. Facilitating porting of games to Linux. * Source2 (2015) wrote a new game engine and ported DOTA2 to it. Neither is a small undertaking. * HTC Vive VR (2016) hardware, software, tooling, and VR content. None a small undertaking. * Valve Index (2019) * Half-Life: Alyx (2020) In addition, there were a few projects and games that never made it to market and a few I probably missed. I'm really happy to see them trying things nobody else is, even when they fail.
    - Strom 6y ago
      On top of all that Dota 2 is one of the best supported games in history, comparable only to the likes of World of Warcraft and Fortnite. It's not like they released Dota 2 and that was that. They've kept developing it to this day at a breakneck pace, including even swaping out the engine like pfranz mentioned.
  - on_and_off 6y ago
    They are no longer interested in making games. They are steam's landlords and hat makers, that's pretty much it.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    I don't know how you managed to interpret "Dota 2 is Gabe Newell's favorite game" into "he does nothing but play DOTA 2 all day, even at his office". That's downright malicious.
- cwhiz 6y ago
  Valve is hilariously stagnant. The Steam windows app went ignored for nearly a decade until Epic came in and started eating their lunch. The mobile app looks like a contracted out app from 2009. Seriously, go download the mobile app. Half the products or ideas they’ve come up with abandoned, never release, or are mediocre. They lack any clear vision, strategy or direction as a company. They seem like they would just absolutely rest on their laurels and do absolutely nothing if it weren’t for pesky competitors ruining their laziness. The only reason Valve is in business today is because DRM forbids consumers from transferring their owned games to another platform. If I could abandon Steam I immediately would.
  - rektide 6y ago
    What stodgy complainy whininess. I can play 60%+ of games on Linux because Valve cares way more than anyone else. Big Picture works great for a console like experience far better than anyone elses. Valve Controller let's practically any game under the sun be couch & controller playable. Remote Play, then Remote Play Together, now Remote Play Tablet blow everything else out of the water. I'm sorry the you doesn't meet your high pop culture desires? It feels much less glossy-plastic & more direct to me than Epic. That's just me I guess. The thing is, that is way way way way down my list of concerns. Steam is a technical juggernaut. No one else is even playing. Steam is super under appreciated. The lack of mainstream highly visible overwhelming successes doesn't bother me. Steam is innovating at the edge in radical ways, & they are always always always trying to spread the love, not steal the sunshine.
    - puranjay 6y ago
      Anyone who says Valve is resting on their laurels clearly hasn't tried Half Life: Alyx. They've sigularly pushed VR further than all the other games and experiences out there combined.
      - Certhas 6y ago
        Agreed. As far as my household is concerned there are two relevant VR experiences: BeatSaber and Alyx. (Serious Sam of all games gets an honourable mention). We would not own a Quest if not for Alyx.
arsome 6y ago
My understanding is Steam machines weren't so much meant to be a console competitor or even a gaming PC competitor, they were meant to be a Windows competitor. So that Valve could basically just say "we'll start releasing exclusives for this" if Microsoft pushed the Windows Store hard and tried to kick Valve out of their dominant market position. Steam machines bought them a bit of leverage when they needed it.
numpad0 6y ago
They do little but do right to secure dominance. Steam Machine didn’t work but Steam and PC gaming industry survived from PS4 and Microsoft Store. They let Oculus and later HTC run with their core VR knowledges but SteamVR/Valve Index is still considered the best platform/headset hands down.
imtringued 6y ago
I've seen HN comments that think if Epic and their games are kicked off consoles they are going to make their own console instead. I don't think "anyone could see that from day one" is true if people still think so about a different company, whose game store has less selection.

by msie 6y ago

rektide 6y ago

It's amazing how shortsighted & wrong one smarmy glib post can be. Valve is kicking ass, leading massive technical charged doing great & fantastic work with none of the typical Service-as-a-Software-Substitute slimeware that everyone else keeps falling to. Great novel hardware with very high bandwidth & compelling input, best if not only useful end user drivers out there as we see with projects like Monado XR that are practically unimaginable elsewhere. You're damned right they don't have a killer business instinct. They have a nurture protect & help instinct. They aren't on inside-out tracking, not yet, they are building far more reliable open systems for outside-in, & that makes them more costly. But you know what you are getting & you know the raw data right out of the sensor is going to be great.

na85 6y ago
That's an interesting take. I don't follow the VR market at all, but from my perspective Valve has been resting on their laurels for years. I've read that gaben just sits in his office playing DOTA 2 all day. Until I read your comment I would never have considered describing Valve as "kicking ass". From where I sit they've basically done nothing innovative since Half Life 2.
- kipchak 6y ago
  Digital item economics/lootboxes/items is a big one[1], they even hired Yanis Varoufakis for a bit. They also did a good deal of the foundational work for VR working with HTC and Oculus. Then there's steam link, Steam controller/SteamOS/Steam Machines, Player created layers in Portal 2, Steak Workshop/Mod support (and paid mods) to name a few. There's a lot of not hits and a lot of not games, but they've been at least doing some stuff. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-I6Qn56QWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-I6Qn56QWI
- tomc1985 6y ago
  I'd hardly consider the Index and Half-Life Alyx to be "nothing innovative"
- phaus 6y ago
  >Valve has been resting on their laurels for years. They aren't just a game development company anymore. Their primary product is Steam. If Half-Life Alyx was playable on any PC or console it would have been one of the best selling games of the year. Its only a niche product because, instead of resting on their laurels, they are trying to drive the industry forward. Not only did they make the Index, which is by far the best VR Headset yet, they also supposedly helped HP develop the Reverb G2 that's coming out soon. GabeN likes playing Dota but the idea that he sits around all day playing videogames when he's been building, improving, and expanding a billion dollar gaming empire is ridiculous. There's also the massive progress towards making Linux a viable gaming platform. Really the only thing keeping me on Windows on my gaming system is the fact that most competitive multiplayer games' anti-cheat software can't run on Linux yet. If I played mostly single player games or casual multiplayer I could play almost everything I want to on Linux. IMO they are plenty innovative. I wish they released more games, but aside from gaming they are doing a lot of great things for the gaming community.
- pfranz 6y ago
  I think it's been easy to miss a lot of Valve's recent work since they haven't been cranking out games. Here are a few things since 2013 when DOTA2 was released: * SteamOS, Steam Machine, Steam Controller, Steam Link (2015) hardware, porting Steam, Source, and tooling to Linux (and patching Linux to improve gaming performance). Cross platform and streaming features. Facilitating porting of games to Linux. * Source2 (2015) wrote a new game engine and ported DOTA2 to it. Neither is a small undertaking. * HTC Vive VR (2016) hardware, software, tooling, and VR content. None a small undertaking. * Valve Index (2019) * Half-Life: Alyx (2020) In addition, there were a few projects and games that never made it to market and a few I probably missed. I'm really happy to see them trying things nobody else is, even when they fail.
  - Strom 6y ago
    On top of all that Dota 2 is one of the best supported games in history, comparable only to the likes of World of Warcraft and Fortnite. It's not like they released Dota 2 and that was that. They've kept developing it to this day at a breakneck pace, including even swaping out the engine like pfranz mentioned.
- on_and_off 6y ago
  They are no longer interested in making games. They are steam's landlords and hat makers, that's pretty much it.
- imtringued 6y ago
  I don't know how you managed to interpret "Dota 2 is Gabe Newell's favorite game" into "he does nothing but play DOTA 2 all day, even at his office". That's downright malicious.
cwhiz 6y ago
Valve is hilariously stagnant. The Steam windows app went ignored for nearly a decade until Epic came in and started eating their lunch. The mobile app looks like a contracted out app from 2009. Seriously, go download the mobile app. Half the products or ideas they’ve come up with abandoned, never release, or are mediocre. They lack any clear vision, strategy or direction as a company. They seem like they would just absolutely rest on their laurels and do absolutely nothing if it weren’t for pesky competitors ruining their laziness. The only reason Valve is in business today is because DRM forbids consumers from transferring their owned games to another platform. If I could abandon Steam I immediately would.
- rektide 6y ago
  What stodgy complainy whininess. I can play 60%+ of games on Linux because Valve cares way more than anyone else. Big Picture works great for a console like experience far better than anyone elses. Valve Controller let's practically any game under the sun be couch & controller playable. Remote Play, then Remote Play Together, now Remote Play Tablet blow everything else out of the water. I'm sorry the you doesn't meet your high pop culture desires? It feels much less glossy-plastic & more direct to me than Epic. That's just me I guess. The thing is, that is way way way way down my list of concerns. Steam is a technical juggernaut. No one else is even playing. Steam is super under appreciated. The lack of mainstream highly visible overwhelming successes doesn't bother me. Steam is innovating at the edge in radical ways, & they are always always always trying to spread the love, not steal the sunshine.
  - puranjay 6y ago
    Anyone who says Valve is resting on their laurels clearly hasn't tried Half Life: Alyx. They've sigularly pushed VR further than all the other games and experiences out there combined.
    - Certhas 6y ago
      Agreed. As far as my household is concerned there are two relevant VR experiences: BeatSaber and Alyx. (Serious Sam of all games gets an honourable mention). We would not own a Quest if not for Alyx.

arsome 6y ago

My understanding is Steam machines weren't so much meant to be a console competitor or even a gaming PC competitor, they were meant to be a Windows competitor. So that Valve could basically just say "we'll start releasing exclusives for this" if Microsoft pushed the Windows Store hard and tried to kick Valve out of their dominant market position. Steam machines bought them a bit of leverage when they needed it.

numpad0 6y ago

They do little but do right to secure dominance. Steam Machine didn’t work but Steam and PC gaming industry survived from PS4 and Microsoft Store. They let Oculus and later HTC run with their core VR knowledges but SteamVR/Valve Index is still considered the best platform/headset hands down.

imtringued 6y ago

I've seen HN comments that think if Epic and their games are kicked off consoles they are going to make their own console instead. I don't think "anyone could see that from day one" is true if people still think so about a different company, whose game store has less selection.