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Things I've seen police do at the protests: Tackle calm non-violent citizens and then repeatedly punch them in the head while on top of them, fire teargas into

Things I've seen police do at the protests: Tackle calm non-violent citizens and then repeatedly punch them in the head while on top of them, fire teargas into traffic and then slash the tires of vehicles stuck in the protest, severely maim civilians holding signs via impact munitions to the head.. just a few things I've witnessed.

deathgrips 6y ago
What would you do when you haven't antagonized protesters and they still advance towards Congress or the White House?
- staplers 6y ago
  As an elected representative for them I would probably ask why they're upset and appease their grievances if warranted. Lawless murder and intimidation by the police is a violently oppressive grievance I would consider warranted. Instead citizens who demand justice are met with surprise more injustice by the police.
  - deathgrips 6y ago
    And what about the citizens who show up and demand free shoes?
    - tehjoker 6y ago
      Generally, the US has been so focused on concentrating wealth and power upwards that I would say give it [the free shoes] to them so long as its a universal program.
  - refurb 6y ago
    That worked great for the mayor of Portland. He ended up moving out of his home because the protestors showed up there to harass him.
    - XMPPwocky 6y ago
      "That worked great"- what's "that", here? It sounds like you're implying that he tried to listen to protestors and address their grievances, and so was driven out of his home- is that roughly what you meant? If so, what are some of the ways he tried to address those grievances? This is not the same thing as me saying "that is good and I'm glad it happened", to be clear! Just ... if he didn't actually do what the parent post suggested, I don't see how that response is relevant.
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        For example, he banned tear gas and chokeholds, redirected substantial funding (I think close to 10 million?) from the police budget to community initiatives, removed police officers from city schools, and eliminated specific police teams like the gun violence squad which activists believed had a culture of racial discrimination.
        lovehashbrowns 6y ago
        This seems like a fair summary of how Ted Wheeler and Portland/Oregon's government is handling demands: https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/01/portland-protest-end-police-reform-reimagine-oregon/ https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/01/portland-protest-end-... The main criticism is that it is not enough or not fast enough. The bigger frustration is the fear that current policy changes are only to appease and not to fix the root issues. For example, Wheeler only recently banned the use of tear gas: https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/9/10/mayor-wheeler-directive-use-cs-gas https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/9/10/mayor-wheele... (note the date--6 days ago). Another example, funding cuts were not seen as enough: https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-police-budget-15-million-defund-cannabis-council-vote/ https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-police-budget-15-m... The most comprehensive list of demands, including updates to their status, can be seen here: https://www.reimagineoregon.org/policydemands https://www.reimagineoregon.org/policydemands
        SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  - oyashirochama 6y ago
    Neither method works, you antagonize them, they fight back, you appease them, they ask for more or say its to late. Honestly nuclear option might have been only option for many situations of "mostly peaceful" protests. They ordered dispersal in most of these cases too due to looting and riots. Just because you say you're "press" doesn't absolve you from the law due to riots and damages from looters; for example.
    - XMPPwocky 6y ago
      The interesting thing about this argument is it's independent from whether or not the protests are justified. If there's riots, well, only option is to start moving in and dispersing the crowd. If you appease them, they'll just ask for more. In light of this, would you say the same thing about the treatment of protestors in Hong Kong? If not, why not?
- petre 6y ago
  Prepare the Marine One helicopter?
bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
It's comments like this that make me wonder if teaching multiple generations of people of a certain social class that 'violence is never the answer' was a mistake...

deathgrips 6y ago

What would you do when you haven't antagonized protesters and they still advance towards Congress or the White House?

staplers 6y ago
As an elected representative for them I would probably ask why they're upset and appease their grievances if warranted. Lawless murder and intimidation by the police is a violently oppressive grievance I would consider warranted. Instead citizens who demand justice are met with surprise more injustice by the police.
- deathgrips 6y ago
  And what about the citizens who show up and demand free shoes?
  - tehjoker 6y ago
    Generally, the US has been so focused on concentrating wealth and power upwards that I would say give it [the free shoes] to them so long as its a universal program.
- refurb 6y ago
  That worked great for the mayor of Portland. He ended up moving out of his home because the protestors showed up there to harass him.
  - XMPPwocky 6y ago
    "That worked great"- what's "that", here? It sounds like you're implying that he tried to listen to protestors and address their grievances, and so was driven out of his home- is that roughly what you meant? If so, what are some of the ways he tried to address those grievances? This is not the same thing as me saying "that is good and I'm glad it happened", to be clear! Just ... if he didn't actually do what the parent post suggested, I don't see how that response is relevant.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      For example, he banned tear gas and chokeholds, redirected substantial funding (I think close to 10 million?) from the police budget to community initiatives, removed police officers from city schools, and eliminated specific police teams like the gun violence squad which activists believed had a culture of racial discrimination.
      - lovehashbrowns 6y ago
        This seems like a fair summary of how Ted Wheeler and Portland/Oregon's government is handling demands: https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/01/portland-protest-end-police-reform-reimagine-oregon/ https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/01/portland-protest-end-... The main criticism is that it is not enough or not fast enough. The bigger frustration is the fear that current policy changes are only to appease and not to fix the root issues. For example, Wheeler only recently banned the use of tear gas: https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/9/10/mayor-wheeler-directive-use-cs-gas https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/9/10/mayor-wheele... (note the date--6 days ago). Another example, funding cuts were not seen as enough: https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-police-budget-15-million-defund-cannabis-council-vote/ https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-police-budget-15-m... The most comprehensive list of demands, including updates to their status, can be seen here: https://www.reimagineoregon.org/policydemands https://www.reimagineoregon.org/policydemands
        SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
- oyashirochama 6y ago
  Neither method works, you antagonize them, they fight back, you appease them, they ask for more or say its to late. Honestly nuclear option might have been only option for many situations of "mostly peaceful" protests. They ordered dispersal in most of these cases too due to looting and riots. Just because you say you're "press" doesn't absolve you from the law due to riots and damages from looters; for example.
  - XMPPwocky 6y ago
    The interesting thing about this argument is it's independent from whether or not the protests are justified. If there's riots, well, only option is to start moving in and dispersing the crowd. If you appease them, they'll just ask for more. In light of this, would you say the same thing about the treatment of protestors in Hong Kong? If not, why not?
petre 6y ago
Prepare the Marine One helicopter?

bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago

It's comments like this that make me wonder if teaching multiple generations of people of a certain social class that 'violence is never the answer' was a mistake...