7 ms·

The last time I’ve seen a cyclist stop at a red light was never

proactivesvcs 6y ago
The last time I read the stats for the London, UK, the number of cyclists seen jumping red lights was in the single digits of all cyclists counted and motorists accounted for 95% of total red light infractions.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  I guess motorists account for 99% of them Now we should make a proportion with the total number of users I suspect cyclists jump red lights a lot more per capita But I can't say it for sure, not knowing the actual numbers
  - proactivesvcs 6y ago
    Then multiply both by the potential harm of each vehicle and we can fully quantify which are the more dangerous.
    - romanoderoma 6y ago
      First of all, bikes are notoriously more dangerous than cars. No matter how anyone puts it, bikes are inherently more dangerous, cars have safety features that are simply not present on bikes. Here is the study https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/648081/rrcgb2016-01.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... A picture is worth a thousand words > Basing numbers on per billion miles travelled takes the raw numbers and adjusts them for exposure https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4a0f8be5f3583d076974c1db052eaefc https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4a0f8be5f3583d076974c1... What is immediately evident is that the less protections you have around you and the more you can go fast (if you can, you will), the more fatality rate is high. The idea that if we could only move by bike there would be less accident is a false one There would be less accidents for sure, because only a tiny fraction of the actual driver's population would go by bike. But they would probably start falling from horses or have carriage accidents
      - cultus 6y ago
        Bikes are safe. Cars are unsafe because they often kill other road users. You have them confused.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        > Bikes are safe. Cars are unsafe because they often kill other road users. You have them confused. knifes kill people too but I'm sure you use them Guns kill people too, but they love them in the US, they love them so much that they put them in the hands of kids and let them go the school to shoot other kids Cars are not unsafe, people driving them are. It's the same people that ride bikes. You have them confused. As Conan's father said: "No one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts." BTW If you like to live, don't ride a bike. -- "More cycling fatalities than deaths in cars" https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/04/25/more-cycling-fatalities-than-deaths-in-cars/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/04/25/more-cycling-f... -- Crash Statistics - who was at fault? https://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/86708/graphics/Bike_Crash_Chart.jpg https://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/86708/graphics... -- Fatality rate (UK) https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/DfT_chart.png https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/DfT_chart.png
        proactivesvcs 6y ago
        Your parent's incorrect assumption is an enlightening one. You were correct to read my comment as one on the dangers presented to other road users.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        Bikes are safe? Let's see if it's true > driver survived with only minor injuries https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article11459711.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/JS92242468.jpg https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article... > this guy was happily riding his bike, fell of it and died from the crash. Paramedics could do nothing to save him, upon arrival he was already dead. https://caserta.occhionotizie.it/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/05/bici-morto-650x412.jpg https://caserta.occhionotizie.it/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/... Which one of the two looks safer to you?
jcranmer 6y ago
As someone who daily commuted by bicycle, the last time I didn't stop at a red light was never. I've definitely seen more cars fail to stop at red lights than bicycles, too.
lostlogin 6y ago
They carry on when the light is red? I have seen plenty take off early and do it myself to avoid having the traffic pile up behind me, but going through a light that has just turned red would seem to invite catastrophe.
- maffydub 6y ago
  I'm neither a driver nor a cyclist - just a pedestrian - but my impression is that, at least in my part of London, cyclists carry on through red lights much more frequently than cars. Obviously, purely anecdotal.
  - evgen 6y ago
    Same. Depending on the intersection and traffic there are places in zone 1 where the traffic signals seem to be considered completely optional for cyclists. I have also found myself needing to use a death stare to get some cyclists to stop at a zebra crossing as well; this happens far more frequently with cyclists than I ever needed to for cars or HGVs.

The last time I read the stats for the London, UK, the number of cyclists seen jumping red lights was in the single digits of all cyclists counted and motorists accounted for 95% of total red light infractions.

romanoderoma 6y ago
I guess motorists account for 99% of them Now we should make a proportion with the total number of users I suspect cyclists jump red lights a lot more per capita But I can't say it for sure, not knowing the actual numbers
- proactivesvcs 6y ago
  Then multiply both by the potential harm of each vehicle and we can fully quantify which are the more dangerous.
  - romanoderoma 6y ago
    First of all, bikes are notoriously more dangerous than cars. No matter how anyone puts it, bikes are inherently more dangerous, cars have safety features that are simply not present on bikes. Here is the study https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/648081/rrcgb2016-01.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... A picture is worth a thousand words > Basing numbers on per billion miles travelled takes the raw numbers and adjusts them for exposure https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4a0f8be5f3583d076974c1db052eaefc https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4a0f8be5f3583d076974c1... What is immediately evident is that the less protections you have around you and the more you can go fast (if you can, you will), the more fatality rate is high. The idea that if we could only move by bike there would be less accident is a false one There would be less accidents for sure, because only a tiny fraction of the actual driver's population would go by bike. But they would probably start falling from horses or have carriage accidents
    - cultus 6y ago
      Bikes are safe. Cars are unsafe because they often kill other road users. You have them confused.
      - romanoderoma 6y ago
        > Bikes are safe. Cars are unsafe because they often kill other road users. You have them confused. knifes kill people too but I'm sure you use them Guns kill people too, but they love them in the US, they love them so much that they put them in the hands of kids and let them go the school to shoot other kids Cars are not unsafe, people driving them are. It's the same people that ride bikes. You have them confused. As Conan's father said: "No one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts." BTW If you like to live, don't ride a bike. -- "More cycling fatalities than deaths in cars" https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/04/25/more-cycling-fatalities-than-deaths-in-cars/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/04/25/more-cycling-f... -- Crash Statistics - who was at fault? https://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/86708/graphics/Bike_Crash_Chart.jpg https://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/86708/graphics... -- Fatality rate (UK) https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/DfT_chart.png https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/DfT_chart.png
      - proactivesvcs 6y ago
        Your parent's incorrect assumption is an enlightening one. You were correct to read my comment as one on the dangers presented to other road users.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        Bikes are safe? Let's see if it's true > driver survived with only minor injuries https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article11459711.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/JS92242468.jpg https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article... > this guy was happily riding his bike, fell of it and died from the crash. Paramedics could do nothing to save him, upon arrival he was already dead. https://caserta.occhionotizie.it/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/05/bici-morto-650x412.jpg https://caserta.occhionotizie.it/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/... Which one of the two looks safer to you?

jcranmer 6y ago

As someone who daily commuted by bicycle, the last time I didn't stop at a red light was never. I've definitely seen more cars fail to stop at red lights than bicycles, too.

lostlogin 6y ago

They carry on when the light is red? I have seen plenty take off early and do it myself to avoid having the traffic pile up behind me, but going through a light that has just turned red would seem to invite catastrophe.

maffydub 6y ago
I'm neither a driver nor a cyclist - just a pedestrian - but my impression is that, at least in my part of London, cyclists carry on through red lights much more frequently than cars. Obviously, purely anecdotal.
- evgen 6y ago
  Same. Depending on the intersection and traffic there are places in zone 1 where the traffic signals seem to be considered completely optional for cyclists. I have also found myself needing to use a death stare to get some cyclists to stop at a zebra crossing as well; this happens far more frequently with cyclists than I ever needed to for cars or HGVs.