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I love native Mac apps, I love Panic…but I’m not sure what this gets me over Visual Studio Code, besides a Preferences pane that isn’t inscrutable. I’m not sur

I love native Mac apps, I love Panic…but I’m not sure what this gets me over Visual Studio Code, besides a Preferences pane that isn’t inscrutable. I’m not sure there’s enough of a market on the Mac for another commercial code editor, as we already have BBEdit for hard-core text wrangling. (And obviously all the open-source options.)

criddell 6y ago
I think it's for people that want their text editor to feel like a Mac app. VS Code is great, but it doesn't feel very Apple-y.
- perardi 6y ago
  Oh I get that’s the market, I just hope said market is large enough for them.
  - ghego1 6y ago
    Considering that for iOS/mac/apple platforms devs will probably chose xcode, and given the premium one has to pay for mac computers these days (justified or not, I'm not saying either), I fear the answer is no. Most devs that do _not_ make native apple apps (e.g. web devs) do not need a Mac, so the market of devs that do not use xcode, that prefer a Mac and that are willing to pay for a proprietary solution, over other proprietary solutions, is likely not that big.
    - criddell 6y ago
      There are still a lot of web developers who choose a Mac even if they don't need one. Nice hardware running unix with a decent UI is worth a premium price to lots of people. I think you underestimate how many developers are willing to pay for their tools proprietary or not. We know better than most how difficult it is to make software and so I think as a group are more willing to support each other financially.
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
    The market is huge. There are quite a few programmers, and they are more willing than most to spend money on software. Graphic design is probably bigger, but other than that? I know accountants and lawyers that are fine with Google Docs and Sheets these days. As another datapoint, I seem to remember IntelliJ doing >100 Million € in revenue p.a.
- fastball 6y ago
  Honestly all it took for VSC to feel Apple-y was a re-skin.
  - zapzupnz 6y ago
    That can make it look Apple-y but not feel Apple-y. And even then, it's a WindowBlinds kind of Apple-y.
- mhd 6y ago
  I'm not sure whether I'd consider Nova to feel that much more "Apple-y", especially when that meant something. BBEdit does that, this just feels a bit too MacOS/iOS convergent.
chipotle_coyote 6y ago
> I’m not sure there’s enough of a market on the Mac for another commercial code editor, as we already have BBEdit for hard-core text wrangling. That's going to be my issue with Nova, I think -- well, already is, as I've been beta-testing it. (I even have a theme in Nova's extension gallery!) There are a few things specifically relating to text manipulation rather than coding that BBEdit just does super well for me, and when I want a more IDE-like experience I end up in VSCode. Nova has foundation to be a great competitor in this space if and only if their extension library gets built out quickly, but that's, well, going to be a challenge. I'm still giving them a year of support to see what happens, though.
- perardi 6y ago
  Mm-hmm, and despite my skepticism, I am also tempted. What’s your experience with the theming engine? I use Hugo for my static site generator, and I doubt there’s a theme for that particular flavor yet. (I severely doubt my ability to craft a theme, regardless of how easy it is, but I am tempted.)
  - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
    It was surprisingly easy to make a Nova theme -- if anything, it was a little easier than TextMate's theming (which is what virtually everybody else bases their theming on, it seems), and unlike VS Code, it supports changing background color in text runs. Which is actually something the theme I wanted to port uses!
throwaway378037 6y ago
Biggest draw for me would be how it handles Dvorak-Q method input. I found VSC falls apart on Mac with that where Coda handles it like a champ.

criddell 6y ago

I think it's for people that want their text editor to feel like a Mac app. VS Code is great, but it doesn't feel very Apple-y.

perardi 6y ago
Oh I get that’s the market, I just hope said market is large enough for them.
- ghego1 6y ago
  Considering that for iOS/mac/apple platforms devs will probably chose xcode, and given the premium one has to pay for mac computers these days (justified or not, I'm not saying either), I fear the answer is no. Most devs that do _not_ make native apple apps (e.g. web devs) do not need a Mac, so the market of devs that do not use xcode, that prefer a Mac and that are willing to pay for a proprietary solution, over other proprietary solutions, is likely not that big.
  - criddell 6y ago
    There are still a lot of web developers who choose a Mac even if they don't need one. Nice hardware running unix with a decent UI is worth a premium price to lots of people. I think you underestimate how many developers are willing to pay for their tools proprietary or not. We know better than most how difficult it is to make software and so I think as a group are more willing to support each other financially.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
  The market is huge. There are quite a few programmers, and they are more willing than most to spend money on software. Graphic design is probably bigger, but other than that? I know accountants and lawyers that are fine with Google Docs and Sheets these days. As another datapoint, I seem to remember IntelliJ doing >100 Million € in revenue p.a.
fastball 6y ago
Honestly all it took for VSC to feel Apple-y was a re-skin.
- zapzupnz 6y ago
  That can make it look Apple-y but not feel Apple-y. And even then, it's a WindowBlinds kind of Apple-y.
mhd 6y ago
I'm not sure whether I'd consider Nova to feel that much more "Apple-y", especially when that meant something. BBEdit does that, this just feels a bit too MacOS/iOS convergent.

chipotle_coyote 6y ago

> I’m not sure there’s enough of a market on the Mac for another commercial code editor, as we already have BBEdit for hard-core text wrangling. That's going to be my issue with Nova, I think -- well, already is, as I've been beta-testing it. (I even have a theme in Nova's extension gallery!) There are a few things specifically relating to text manipulation rather than coding that BBEdit just does super well for me, and when I want a more IDE-like experience I end up in VSCode. Nova has foundation to be a great competitor in this space if and only if their extension library gets built out quickly, but that's, well, going to be a challenge. I'm still giving them a year of support to see what happens, though.

perardi 6y ago
Mm-hmm, and despite my skepticism, I am also tempted. What’s your experience with the theming engine? I use Hugo for my static site generator, and I doubt there’s a theme for that particular flavor yet. (I severely doubt my ability to craft a theme, regardless of how easy it is, but I am tempted.)
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  It was surprisingly easy to make a Nova theme -- if anything, it was a little easier than TextMate's theming (which is what virtually everybody else bases their theming on, it seems), and unlike VS Code, it supports changing background color in text runs. Which is actually something the theme I wanted to port uses!

throwaway378037 6y ago

Biggest draw for me would be how it handles Dvorak-Q method input. I found VSC falls apart on Mac with that where Coda handles it like a champ.