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The word "modern" is really overused in tech, and it doesn't really tell you all that much, just that "this is better because it's new, and new stuff is better

The word "modern" is really overused in tech, and it doesn't really tell you all that much, just that "this is better because it's new, and new stuff is better than old stuff". Consider a more descriptive word, such as: - minimal - streamlined - sleek - simple - opinionated - spatial - comprehensive etc...

slingnow 6y ago
I would argue all of you suggested words are just as overused and meaningless as "modern". At the end of the day, I would still need to see the product to understand what it does.
- pimlottc 6y ago
  It's hard to describe a complex program with one word but I would argue they are at least more informative than "modern". Unless you're intentionally using old technology or going for a "retro-style", pretty much anything written in 2020 could be described as "modern". The alternatives listed as just examples, I would need to understand the program better to come up with a truly apt adjective.
- eejjjj82 6y ago
  without trying to nitpick I had a similar reaction as pimlottc. the Gnome-Shell title page is: "GNOME Shell, next generation desktop shell" so when I read modern on your description I just chuckled a bit. in any case great work on this. looks like a ton of work
arendtio 6y ago
How about providing an explanation for those words? - minimal: limited features set aka either you like it in 10 seconds or you don't - streamlined: good looking?!? - sleek: combination of streamlined and minimal? - simple: IMO even more overused than 'modern' and as diverse in its meaning - opinionated: There is exactly one way of doing it right and either you like it or you don't, but it might come with an extensive feature set compared to minimal. - spatial: no idea; Endless space? 3D? Depending on my geolocation?!? - comprehensive: 'Oh, I have to learn something, but not too much' Modern, on the other hand, means to me: Mainstream look & feel (kinda polished) and with considerable feature set. Whats your definition?
- choward 6y ago
  Modern is associated with your definition and has a positive connotation. However, it really just means it's new. That doesn't necessarily mean the things you listed. But it does mean that it's probably under active development, the creator has it fresh in their mind, and you can probably contact them.
  - pimlottc 6y ago
    > But it does mean that it's probably under active development, the creator has it fresh in their mind, and you can probably contact them. This is true! But that's usually a given for projects being promoted via HN posts. Not usually a lot of Show HNs for for old, abandoned projects.
  - valenciarose 6y ago
    The word Modern absolutely does not mean new, recent, or contemporary in the context of design (or really in reference to any visual presentation). The design of Walkman was innovative and new when it came out, but at no point in time did it qualify as Modern. Modernism, as applied to the design of tools and other useful objects, was codified by Dieter Rams half a century ago. The recent resurgence of Modernism as applied to computer software and hardware is not the result of inevitable progress. It’s the result of Steve Jobs deliberately choosing Modernism in the early 90s (although this wasn’t apparent in products until his return). https://ifworlddesignguide.com/design-specials/dieter-rams-10-principles-for-good-design https://ifworlddesignguide.com/design-specials/dieter-rams-1...
- heisenzombie 6y ago
  "Spatial" is, I think, a term of art. It refers to conceptual objects in the software having a 1:1 correspondence with a UI element with a single, stable location. The metaphor is with the real world: If a put an object somewhere, it stays there. My notebook is in the front-right corner of my desk and nowhere else. Notably, the "Finder" application in Mac OS used to be spatial. Opening a folder opened a window, and that window would be exactly where it was the last time you opened that folder. Conceptually, the window is the folder. Here's an article about it from John Siracusa, who is a proponent of spatial interfaces: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/3/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/3/
mixmastamyk 6y ago
The CADT Model. Modern usually means they rethought the problem from scratch. Not a problem in itself, it's how progress is made. However, in practice typically means that there are hundreds of edge cases not yet solved.
harha 6y ago
Not only in tech, e.g., modern portfolio theory. Agree that it would be better to use more descriptive names.
iso8859-1 6y ago
Why is it worse to use the word "modern" in tech compared to any other context? If they called it "postmodern", would that be acceptable? BTW, do you propose renaming the Museums of Modern Art?
- zapzupnz 6y ago
  These questions seem to be a bit grasping. It's clear from GP's post that the problem with 'modern' in this context is that it lacks semantic meaning within the given sentence. As 'modern' has no domain-specific denotative definition, one must turn to its connotation — of some quality that is only available in newer products, not prior ones. On the other hand, to simply say that something is 'new' in technology is clear: it is a recently-developed or recently-published effort, free of insinuation that there is anything better or worse than what came before it. 'Modern', on the other hand, implies some sort of quality that might not be apparent in prior art. > If they called it "postmodern", would that be acceptable? Why would that be acceptable? That would carry even less clear meaning. > BTW, do you propose renaming the Museums of Modern Art? In that context, 'modern' has a domain-specific meaning — art made past 1860.
mobb_solo 6y ago
Good point️ Additionally, people seem to forget about the term CONTEMPORARY.. It annoys me out that I can't use the word 'contemporary' when talking to 50% (~a lot?) of people. Somebody whose talking about some band they like and, I ask if they are a "CONTEMPORARY act?", they OFTEN reply, "No, they are a new/modern band".. lol
corytheboyd 6y ago
You are over analyzing the marketing pitch, and/or expecting it to be the exact specification. It’s not. IMO it’s fine for a project to pick a few vapid buzz words to get you interested, because a complete specification of the project certainly isn’t going to catch eyes.

slingnow 6y ago

I would argue all of you suggested words are just as overused and meaningless as "modern". At the end of the day, I would still need to see the product to understand what it does.

pimlottc 6y ago
It's hard to describe a complex program with one word but I would argue they are at least more informative than "modern". Unless you're intentionally using old technology or going for a "retro-style", pretty much anything written in 2020 could be described as "modern". The alternatives listed as just examples, I would need to understand the program better to come up with a truly apt adjective.
eejjjj82 6y ago
without trying to nitpick I had a similar reaction as pimlottc. the Gnome-Shell title page is: "GNOME Shell, next generation desktop shell" so when I read modern on your description I just chuckled a bit. in any case great work on this. looks like a ton of work

arendtio 6y ago

How about providing an explanation for those words? - minimal: limited features set aka either you like it in 10 seconds or you don't - streamlined: good looking?!? - sleek: combination of streamlined and minimal? - simple: IMO even more overused than 'modern' and as diverse in its meaning - opinionated: There is exactly one way of doing it right and either you like it or you don't, but it might come with an extensive feature set compared to minimal. - spatial: no idea; Endless space? 3D? Depending on my geolocation?!? - comprehensive: 'Oh, I have to learn something, but not too much' Modern, on the other hand, means to me: Mainstream look & feel (kinda polished) and with considerable feature set. Whats your definition?

choward 6y ago
Modern is associated with your definition and has a positive connotation. However, it really just means it's new. That doesn't necessarily mean the things you listed. But it does mean that it's probably under active development, the creator has it fresh in their mind, and you can probably contact them.
- pimlottc 6y ago
  > But it does mean that it's probably under active development, the creator has it fresh in their mind, and you can probably contact them. This is true! But that's usually a given for projects being promoted via HN posts. Not usually a lot of Show HNs for for old, abandoned projects.
- valenciarose 6y ago
  The word Modern absolutely does not mean new, recent, or contemporary in the context of design (or really in reference to any visual presentation). The design of Walkman was innovative and new when it came out, but at no point in time did it qualify as Modern. Modernism, as applied to the design of tools and other useful objects, was codified by Dieter Rams half a century ago. The recent resurgence of Modernism as applied to computer software and hardware is not the result of inevitable progress. It’s the result of Steve Jobs deliberately choosing Modernism in the early 90s (although this wasn’t apparent in products until his return). https://ifworlddesignguide.com/design-specials/dieter-rams-10-principles-for-good-design https://ifworlddesignguide.com/design-specials/dieter-rams-1...
heisenzombie 6y ago
"Spatial" is, I think, a term of art. It refers to conceptual objects in the software having a 1:1 correspondence with a UI element with a single, stable location. The metaphor is with the real world: If a put an object somewhere, it stays there. My notebook is in the front-right corner of my desk and nowhere else. Notably, the "Finder" application in Mac OS used to be spatial. Opening a folder opened a window, and that window would be exactly where it was the last time you opened that folder. Conceptually, the window is the folder. Here's an article about it from John Siracusa, who is a proponent of spatial interfaces: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/3/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/04/finder/3/

mixmastamyk 6y ago

The CADT Model. Modern usually means they rethought the problem from scratch. Not a problem in itself, it's how progress is made. However, in practice typically means that there are hundreds of edge cases not yet solved.

harha 6y ago

Not only in tech, e.g., modern portfolio theory. Agree that it would be better to use more descriptive names.

iso8859-1 6y ago

Why is it worse to use the word "modern" in tech compared to any other context? If they called it "postmodern", would that be acceptable? BTW, do you propose renaming the Museums of Modern Art?

zapzupnz 6y ago
These questions seem to be a bit grasping. It's clear from GP's post that the problem with 'modern' in this context is that it lacks semantic meaning within the given sentence. As 'modern' has no domain-specific denotative definition, one must turn to its connotation — of some quality that is only available in newer products, not prior ones. On the other hand, to simply say that something is 'new' in technology is clear: it is a recently-developed or recently-published effort, free of insinuation that there is anything better or worse than what came before it. 'Modern', on the other hand, implies some sort of quality that might not be apparent in prior art. > If they called it "postmodern", would that be acceptable? Why would that be acceptable? That would carry even less clear meaning. > BTW, do you propose renaming the Museums of Modern Art? In that context, 'modern' has a domain-specific meaning — art made past 1860.

mobb_solo 6y ago

Good point️ Additionally, people seem to forget about the term CONTEMPORARY.. It annoys me out that I can't use the word 'contemporary' when talking to 50% (~a lot?) of people. Somebody whose talking about some band they like and, I ask if they are a "CONTEMPORARY act?", they OFTEN reply, "No, they are a new/modern band".. lol

corytheboyd 6y ago

You are over analyzing the marketing pitch, and/or expecting it to be the exact specification. It’s not. IMO it’s fine for a project to pick a few vapid buzz words to get you interested, because a complete specification of the project certainly isn’t going to catch eyes.