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DMT drug study investigates the ‘entities’ people meet while tripping
- lilboiluvr69 6y agoSome friends of mine did some tests with DMT entities. Apparently they can't solve math problems. I never believed they were anything other than hallucinations, but they were still some of the most positive and meaningful events in my life. I hope one day we'll know enough about consciousness to understand why DMT causes the formation of these seemingly other selves.
- emteycz 6y agoI wonder if this is determined by skill of the person
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- vorpalhex 6y agoAs a layperson reading experiences, it sort of seems to align with a lot of Jungian psychology models. The idea that there's a guiding visualizable other self that provides insight and meaning when visited, but is still ultimately an extension of the self.
- andi999 6y agoI am always wondering. From split brain patients we know that there are two fully functioning halfs. And when you think about it from an IT perspective, it is difficult to imagine that they are fully synchronized (emotionally, information, etc). So basically you have a pair of twins sharing a phone line giving somehow the idea of a single person. I am not surprised that some odd things going on. (The old: left hemisphere math, right art or vice versa has been debunked if I remember correctly)
- anon73044 6y ago>(The old: left hemisphere math, right art or vice versa has been debunked if I remember correctly) As usual with biology, it's a bit more complicated than the '60s explanation ever revealed to the public. https://youtu.be/dFs9WO2B8uI https://youtu.be/dFs9WO2B8uI
- Trasmatta 6y ago> From split brain patients we know that there are two fully functioning halfs I don't think it necessarily shows that. The "two halves" may just be a phenomenon that arises when the brain splits, not something that's normally there. And I believe there have been recent studies that even brought the original split brain conclusions into question, i.e., there might still be communication happening between the two halves.
- indigochill 6y agoWell, he did deliberately induce this state on himself and record the results in The Red Book. And given that he had those experiences, it's no surprise his model of psychology aligns with those who also have. Which is not necessarily to discount it. I'm intrigued by his research and willingness to apply the scientific method to things other scientists would dismiss out-of-hand.
- ncrmro 6y agoI have a copy of the red book that’s still shrink wrapped, it’s big. Think I should open it or read a digital copy now?
- temp0826 6y agoTo the other jungians out there- a note/reminder that the black books are finally being released in October.
- jelliclesfarm 6y agoYou should open it. The art is beautiful. I read a page everyday. Half the book is in Middle German. So..there is that...I just admire the calligraphy.
- leptons 6y agoI have tried DMT more than a few times. Every time I felt a sense of connection to something greater, some would call it "God", and some call it "the Universe", etc. On one trip I caught a glimpse of this and within the trip I moved towards it, curious what it was, and I was pushing closer towards it trying to discover what it was, and then it "shattered" and revealed itself as my own subconscious - that force within me that protects me and guides me and loves me, it was my own self at its purest essence, stripped of all the layers that we construct to deal with the rest of the world. It was a rapturous epiphany, I literally turned into a million smiles and my own subconscious welcomed me "home". I know it probably sounds strange to some, but I do consider it a breakthrough. I haven't really needed to do any DMT since then. "Once you get the message, hang up the phone" - Alan Watts. I got the message. Oh wow, I got that message. I never believed the "aliens" in DMT trips were anything like "aliens", because after all, everything that occurs during a DMT trip is happening within your own brain. These aren't "beings", they are you, yourself, or at least the inner workings of "the self".
- pieceofcakedude 6y agoJust beautiful, thank you for sharing.
- pvarangot 6y agoI see other dimensions, aliens, a higher mathematical order to reality, God, etc... as another way to explain "the subconscious". I think your subconscious manifests itself as what would be easier to understand for your ego, with varying degrees of effectiveness depending on the person. A conspiracy theory fan, a priest, a therapist, or a hardcore fan of David Lynch movies will probably see their inner selves manifest differently when the subconscious pushes through to show itself to ego in a way were it can be seen with our "eyes" and heard with out "ears".
- rootw0rm 6y agoI've had a similar experience and it made me a better person. I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. Thanks for sharing.
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- anchpop 6y agoThere is a classic Slate Star Codex post/short story about whether DMT entities can do math: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-the-cactus-person/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-th...
- CarelessExpert 6y agoSo, I've not read any of SSC, though obviously the news lately has made me aware of him. But this? This is pure genius. Thank you for the link! So many laugh out loud moments. I particularly enjoyed '“I demand a better answer than that,” I demanded.'
- anchpop 6y agoScott is fond of sentences like that, especially with puns thrown in. I have no idea how he's so good at coming up with them. They took me a moment to understand so I'll explain with an example from this page [0]: “I’m not going to make a deathbed conversion,” Tom said diagnostically. The sentence indicates that Tom is dying and not currently religious, and the word "diagnostically" sounds like a mixture between "die" and "agnostic". They aren't quite funny when explained but when you spend 3 minutes trying to figure one out before it slaps you in the face it's a very good time [0]: https://slatestarcodex.com/tag/tom-swifties/ https://slatestarcodex.com/tag/tom-swifties/ More examples: “I went rock-climbing with my girlfriend,” Tom updated. “The defibrillator worked!” Tom said, repulsed. “My karate instructor died,” Tom said, desensitized.
- TeMPOraL 6y agoWoah. I never got most of the jokes on that post when I first read it. Now it's all obvious (and fun, finally). Thanks!
- awb 6y ago> “Right,” I said. “We’ll have more transcendent joy if you help me out and factor the number than if you just sit there being spiritual and enigmatic.” This is hilarious :) Especially when you think of the entities he's arguing with as different aspects of his own consciousness. There's parts of all of us that want to pursue knowledge of the world around us and those parts that want to pursue our emotions and knowing ourselves.
- johndevor 6y agoI wonder if this lines up with the psychology of Internal Family Systems (IFS): https://www.reddit.com/r/InternalFamilySystems/ https://www.reddit.com/r/InternalFamilySystems/ Basically, that we are a collection of inner-selves, not a single self. IFS provides a framework for working with our inner selves.
- disown 6y agoOr maybe the self is an illusion. https://philosophynow.org/issues/97/The_Illusion_of_the_Self https://philosophynow.org/issues/97/The_Illusion_of_the_Self
- Florin_Andrei 6y agoBoth. There are multiple selves, and each one of them is not as set in stone as we think.
- war1025 6y agoI've given up on reddit since their redesign. I know there is the `old.reddit.com` trick you can do, but I can't be bothered. Is there a non-reddit reference to this "Internal Family Systems" thing? I'd be interested in looking into it more.
- nullsense 6y agoIt's mentioned in The Body Keeps The Score
- earljwagner 6y agoFrom an IFS perspective, it sounds like DMT introduces parts that guide our attention toward the Self. That's different from regular IFS parts - protectors and exiles - that guide our attention away from the Self.
- devilduck 6y agoPossibly because math is a human invention and not actually "the language of the universe" or whatever
- ta1234567890 6y agoWe are capable of holding more than one identity in our minds and switching between them. Some people use that ability to create "characters" (tulpas: https://www.businessinsider.com/hearing-voices-in-your-head-real-life-versus-movies-tulpa-psychiatry-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/hearing-voices-in-your-head-...) that they interact with or even allow to take over their bodies. Apparently some people go as far as replacing themselves with a tulpa they've created (they call this ego-suicide).
- loves_mangoes 6y agoThat's amazing! I did not expect to read about Tulpas on Business Insider, so thank you for that. Somehow I'm not surprised that the tulpa in question is a batpony. There seems to be an interesting intersection between Tulpamancing and My Little Pony. Perhaps something about escapism.
- war1025 6y agoI started watching that video and something about the interview with the "Tulpamancer" just really creeped me out.
- chews 6y agoI think it's because we're watching schizophrenia and a doc who feels it's just rich escapism.
- Retric 6y agoMental illness like schizophrenia are by definition a net negative, that’s why their disorders. It seems strange but people can be very different without mental problems or seem perfectly normal but have severe issues. It’s why some but not all young children with imaginary friends can be considered fine. More strangely some adults have similar imaginary friends which they realize are mental constructs but they still enjoy interacting with them.
- mr_overalls 6y agoWe are also capable of realizing directly that personal identity itself is also construct, a mask we put on to make sense of the world. Seeing through this illusion can be deeply unsettling, as well as deeply liberating. E.g. Buddhist insight into anatta, or non-self. Shinzen Young's description on the nuts and bolts of Shingon Buddhist deity yoga practice is simply fascinating. https://alvinalexander.com/personal/shinzen-young-shingon-shinto-winter-meditation-training/ https://alvinalexander.com/personal/shinzen-young-shingon-sh... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_VizlDWcTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_VizlDWcTA
- tsumnia 6y ago> Apparently they can't solve math problems. I wonder if math problems, or even simple logic statements, are the most appropriate criteria for interactions.
- dingdingdang 6y agoHmm, depends, it's one way to aim towards objectivity though. Unless of course these being exists in dimensions where base reality itself necessitates a different mathematical makeup ... causing the entities themselves to respond to your presence with "yeah, right, nice try fantasy person, wink-wink, now get out of my day dream"
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tsumnia 6y agoI was more thinking about how music is a common element for trips. Maybe math problems aren't appropriate because, as you say, it requires an entirely different structure. Music though is very sensory and perceptual so could you elicit say pattern recognition? If you played a sound or pattern but isolate the sound from the participant, could the entity repeat the pattern?
- dingdingdang 6y agoLike the idea of using music but since we have to take into account that the participant's mind acts as the "gate" to the entity it makes little sense to expect the entity to be able to repeat a pattern that has not entered the participant's consciousness. One way this could work however would be if the same entity revealed itself to two participants. Then it would be quite straightforward to see if information/music/other shared by between one participant and the entity could be accessed by the other when participant when communicating with the entity.
- tsumnia 6y ago
- Florin_Andrei 6y ago> they can't solve math problems > I never believed they were anything other than hallucinations I mean, dogs can't do math either, yet they are real. I'm not necessarily arguing for the independent reality of the entities, I'm just saying that's not a super-conclusive test.
- Trasmatta 6y agoI think people generally perceive these entities as being advanced and hyper intelligent, hence the math question. But yeah, still not conclusive either way (but the most likely answer is still that they're constructions of your own mind).
- itronitron 6y agomaybe they are so hyper-intelligent that they let their subconscious handle the math problems
- tsco77 6y agoJust to be pedantic, dogs can count (probably, or something akin to it). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12357291/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12357291/
- sideshowb 6y agoBut they can't look up
- subsubzero 6y agoWonder how close this phenomena is related with lucid dreaming. The reason I bring it up is back in college I was struggling with an assignment and could not get the solution to a problem. That night I had a extremely vivid lucid dream where I was told the solution to the problem. The crazy thing was I tested it the next morning and it worked. Most likely my subconscious solving the issue but it was extremely strange as the answer was very clear and was not a technique I was used to.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y agoLeaving problems to simmer in the subconscious overnight is a pretty common technique. Results aren't always as vivid as a dream, but it's not unusual to wake up with an "Oh yes - of course" if you prime the problem the day before.
- Florin_Andrei 6y agoBack when chemistry was just getting started and scientists were still trying to figure out the structures of molecules, benzene was a tough issue, probably because folks could not make yet the mental leap to non-linear structures (closed loops). And then one night Kekule dreamed up the benzene ring, and the rest is history.
- pvarangot 6y agoI had both type of experiences, lucid dreaming and something like what's described in the article. While a theory of the subconscious may explain both, they feel completely different. It's like skiing is technically like kicking a can because you use your legs for both, but no one analyses them both from the same framework and gets interesting conclusions or predictions.
- Kiro 6y agoApex Twin claims he's using lucid dreams to make songs: > [...] it’s a technique James claims to be responsible for 80% of the tracks of Selected Ambient Works Volume II. In a 1994 interview he explained, “I go to sleep, dream I’m in my studio with imaginary bits of gear and do a track. Then I wake myself up and recreate it. I can do this in about 20 minutes.” https://www.factmag.com/2017/04/14/funny-little-man-the-facts-and-fictions-of-aphex-twins-mythology/ https://www.factmag.com/2017/04/14/funny-little-man-the-fact...
- Jeff_Brown 6y agoTo play devil's advocate: Math arose largely to deal with the problem of scarce resources. Magical drug-summoned beings might never have needed to do that. To then argue against that: Trippy aliens would not need to confront our simplest kinds of scarcity, like for land or food, in order to need to economize. Any world that offers choices offers tradeoffs by definition. Rational agents facing tradeoffs arrive at math. Unless somehow emotional intelligence is more useful to them than economic rationality.
- angel_j 6y agoHi-tech aliens could send no-tech agents.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- xpaqui 6y agoIn lucid dreams entities can solve math problems to a certain degree. Does it mean that the lucid dream ones are real then?
- 1MachineElf 6y agoNever encountered a being while using DMT. The closest thing I recall was looking at the moonlight through clouds and hallucinating that it was all made out of skulls watching over me.
- libertine 6y agoYikes!
- colordrops 6y agoI had the same experience of skulls on mushrooms. The moon seems to induce the strongest hallucinations for me for some reason. I've also seen it sprout wheels and drive down a mountain on acid. On ecstasy I saw perfectly symmetrical flower petals around the moon.
- pvarangot 6y agoIf you get insight by looking at the moon I would recommend next time you try fire.
- sidpatil 6y agoThe study: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0269881120916143 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/02698811209161...
- Shoop 6y agoRelated fiction: "Universal Love, Said The Cactus Person" [0] [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-the-cactus-person/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-th...
- donut2d 6y agoThe most common emotions were "joy (65%), trust (63%), surprise (61%), love (59%), kindness (56%), friendship (48%), and fear (41%) during the encounter experience, with smaller proportions reporting emotions such as sadness (13%), distrust (10%), disgust (4%), or anger (3%)." Interestingly, 58 percent of respondents said the being also had an emotional response, almost always a positive one. Wow!
- non-entity 6y agoWow I wonder if this is just luck in the respondents having a good setting / proper preparation, etc. or innate effects of the drug. Ive had other psychedelics kick my ass more than a few times with anxiety / paranoia.
- dalbasal 6y agoPossibly responsible for many of the reported differences between dmt (especially traditional oral varieties such as ayahuasca) and lsd or psilocybin. The latter are often used in recreational (and often irresponsible) settings, while dmt is often treated more seriously. Even in a controlled test, expectations probably still play a meaningful role. Possible ethical issues with randomizing the active test.
- non-entity 6y agoThat's a good point as well, but I wonder if this will change over time as DMT seems to become more known and talked about.
- y-c-o-m-b 6y agoThe potential for anxiety and paranoia are heightened for me since I took cannabis edibles and had a horrendous reaction where I was 99% sure I was dying from a heart-attack or lack of oxygen. I took it at 11AM and I was still slightly high the next afternoon, so it lasted well over 24 hours! It was the worst experience of my life with any drug. This is coming from someone that smoked Salvia over 150 times in one year... I was basically doing it every other day. I only had one bad trip on salvia. I also did shrooms at a rave once and while that experience wasn't great nor horrible, it was just exhausting and I wanted it to be over after a couple of hours. All of this leaves me with a desire to try DMT but a huge fear of dealing w/ the same anxiety and paranoia I got from the edible cannabis ordeal.
- Stierlitz 6y agoLong ago when I used to do maintenence on video consoles and pin-ball machines. The pin-ball machine was built with a standard desktop motherboard with additional circuits for the display and sound. If you wetted you finger and ran it along the tracks on the PCB, the audio circuit emitted strange avant garde sounding music. I figure it was the machine equivalent of a DMT trip :] OH WOW: self-transforming fractal machine elves ;]
- heimatau 6y agoThis could be a good analogy to what our brain experience. We do compartmentalize things, for efficiency reasons. (I.e. a book is a book. we have concrete models of the world to reference; like a PCB board has concrete functions it performs) Then...one can swipe the board with a wet finger that produces unintended non-negative consequences. Same could be said of DMT and the brain. Great comparison Stierlitz!
- peteradio 6y agoI would love to read some fiction where a study such as this leads to discovery that people are encountering the same concrete entity(ies).
- jelliclesfarm 6y agohttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137697/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137697/ : meditation probably contributes to mental states that arent unlike DMT induced ones. we are chemical soups sloshing around within our meat sacs. i am interested though.. in the imaginary friends children make...could it be that when we are children, the brain releases 'DMT like' chemicals or signals that make them hallucinate our imaginary friends. children lose this ability when they grow up. same with ghosts and alien sightings. i think ..on a more diluted level..people with synesthetic proclivities. many religious and spiritual experiences can also trigger meeting 'other entities' not from our plane. angels and such. fairies etc. finally, could be seizures. certain kinds of epileptic episodes can trigger hallucinations and visualizations.
- criddell 6y agoPeople dealing with Lewy Body Dementia often have very vivid hallucinations.
- NoOneNew 6y agoDo kids really think their imaginary friend is real? When I did it as a kid, I knew there was no one there, but pretended and in a way role played situations. Normally this was only in between long gaps where I didnt get to hang out with other kids. I've never known any kids who truly think their imaginary friend is real or see them. I thought it was just a lame movie trope.
- endori97 6y agoCatholics identify the 'machine elves' as demons
- sbussard 6y ago
- new_guy 6y agoThere's an interesting book about encounters with the entities: DMT Dialogues: Encounters with the Spirit Molecule ( https://b-ok.cc/book/3688170/74a672 https://b-ok.cc/book/3688170/74a672 ) It really does seem like there's whole other levels/dimensions of reality and these things are real and independent of the person.
- disposekinetics 6y agoThere are two competing theories: There exists another dimension that can only be accessed during hallucination, or people hallucinating hallucinate. One of these requires fewer assumptions.
- jakeva 6y agoI know what you're saying, and agree. But I think it's worth pointing out that the explanation of "people hallucinating hallucinate" doesn't end the conversation. Can you answer the question of "what is a hallucination?" with still fewer assumptions? Maybe you can, but I think if you're acting in good faith you'll find you have to discuss the nature of consciousness and its relationship with the natural world. Now, this may still come to a simpler explanation than one involving extra dimensions but I think it's a lot more complex than "people hallucinating hallucinate" if you're being fair in your investigation.
- hackinthebochs 6y ago>Can you answer the question of "what is a hallucination?" with still fewer assumptions? Not the OP, but I think google's deep dream provides a nice analog to the process of hallucination that goes on within us on psychedelic drugs. Essentially our brains are wired to detect certain patterns in the world; our neural wiring is isomorphic to the structure found in the world. What these drugs do is increase the excitability of some neural structures, which structures are excited correspond to the kinds of experiences different psychedelics induce. The fact that DMT seems to universally induce encounters with "entities" suggests the areas of the brain that are excited.
- motohagiography 6y agoThe geometric patterns are interesting to me because we can generate them as the effect of feedback loops, recursion, and iteration in pretty much every physical and logical domain. When you introduce a delay or discontinuity into a continuous process, it causes echoes and periodic patterns we would interpret as "geometric" as well. Think effects pedals on musical sounds, or modelling queues. The underlying presumption seems to be that there are barriers to understanding a truth that can be "unlocked," which seems like a leap fraught with baggage. Even though using a poison that impairs the ability of our brain to reconcile its sensory inputs with its memory of itself is an out of "self" experience, this idea of viewing it through the lens of an enhancement or impairment yields different interpretations. A functioning society and civilization requires that people can be acted upon by - and respond to - the artifacts of language, so something that impairs that is going to raise hackles among people who think about those sort of things. But to grow it and survive we also need things that originate outside of it, so the insights people get from these trips can also be very valuable. DMT elves I can't explain, but geometric patterns, just generate interrupts on a signal that has feedback. If they do exist, I'd have to assume they're some instantiation of tech support, as something is going to detect the signal jitter and check it.
- dalbasal 6y agoIf you're interested in these kinds of parsimonies... I suggest looking into traditional and modern "psychedelic art" (especially dmt-related) and machine generated "art." There are similarities here too, some uncanny.
- cameldrv 6y agoInterestingly, many hallucinatory geometric patterns fall out of a simple mathematical model of V1. This is a great paper that is less known than it should be: Geometric visual hallucinations, Euclidean symmetry and the functional architecture of striate cortex https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1088430/pdf/TB010299.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1088430/pdf/TB0...
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- isoprophlex 6y agoFrom infinity converging onto me: a neon hued triangle. Three beams shoot from its vertices, which have sprouted eyes. The laser beams scan my body and enter into my soul through my eyes. WHO ARE YOU i'm... me? WHO IS I? i am... ? Reality breaks down as colors rush over me. Intense joy suffuses my hitherto depressed existence. I return from the trip shivering and crying tears of joy. Strong shit. Years later, during a music show, I close the time loop by going out of body and becoming that triangle, letting my past self know everything will be okay, and life is worth it. DMT... yeah.
- carabiner 6y agoMine looked like hanging drapes closing in around me, but completely non-threatening. They were bright white, green, and brown stripes, and rhythmically pulsing, like breathing. I had the strongest sense they were non-threatening and watching over me. I never thought they were anything but hallucinations though.
- isoprophlex 6y agoIt's pretty remarkable how overwhelmingly intense and yet benign the experience can be.
- AbnoxiousFox 6y agoIt's so great that there are actually people dedicated in scientific studies about DMT! I have a degree in CS and work in the field for 10 years. For 6 years now I've been participating in those mediunic rituals with ayahuasca and everything that comes to me is love, greatefulness and a contact with my inner self. When it comes to God we are actually talking about a more intense contact with our inner selves which already can be explained by psychology, but then it comes the interesting part: it feels like technology is inside my mind in such a way that when I'm under effect of ayahuasca the "beings" that I encounter are very much like "elven" machines but I don't see them, I feel an energic presence and the visual manifestation of that energy in my brain reflects in the form of patterns thus this "machine" looking visuals. Something very interesting about me being on DMT is that I'm able to render those voxels words indefinitely and visualize everything with sound like the sound is the code behind those renderers in my mind. I believe guys like Tesla, Einstein and so many others did have this same capacity to interact with their inner selves / sub consciousness and fully use their mental capacity in such a way that the "energic entities" (read the energy in your own brain parts) were able to describe to them the factories of the universe in the middle of a dream. You may actually follow up on this work with convicted man in Brazil: https://revistatrip.uol.com.br/trip/presos-de-rondonia-usam-cha-de-santo-daime-e-terapias-alternativas https://revistatrip.uol.com.br/trip/presos-de-rondonia-usam-...
- ta1234567890 6y agoThank you for sharing your experience. > I believe guys like Tesla, Einstein and so many others did have this same capacity Sometimes when reading quotes by people like them, I get a similar impression, like they were "connected to the source", or "enlightened", and they intuitively followed that connection towards their achievements. It also reminds me of a part in a documentary about Steve Jobs when a friend of his says "Steve was enlightened, and he blew it", hinting at him using that connection or "power" for what she felt was the wrong purpose.
- ekam 6y agoWhat’s the name of the documentary?
- auganov 6y ago> The form and nature of these beings vary in reports, but one thing remains curiously constant: People tend to rank these encounters among the most meaningful experiences of their lives. For some people, these encounters change their beliefs about reality, the existence of an afterlife, and God. Wonder how much of this is simply the fact this is a highly illegal and hard to obtain drug. By definition it would be an unusual experience for anybody and people tend to assign more meaning to the not-mundane. I sincerely doubt you'd be hearing all these stories if you could get these drugs in a grocery store.
- crmrc114 6y agoReading the comments on this was thrilling. I don't normally go for hearing about trip experiences but something DMT stories makes them so much more fun to read vs. LSD and Psilocybin. Love the comments here.
- KingFelix 6y agoAnyone interested in this should check out Towards a Science of Consciousness conference going on right now. Selen Atasoy just spoke, Dennis Mckenna, Paul Stamets, Robin Carhart-Harris, and lots of other really great Psychedelic scientists. + Many many other avenues of Consciousness https://consciousness.arizona.edu/ https://consciousness.arizona.edu/
- awsanswers 6y agoI believe this shared motif is some default mode pattern matching in our unconscious mind. i.e. We have a built in "entity" template and DMT puts us in such a state that we fill in that template
- stinos 6y agoOr there is no such template by default, but DMT causes it to be created in a similar way across people taking it, and the differences in what people experience are filled in according to their personality/life/... Sorry, too busy too look up the exact terminology and hypothesis now, but IIRC there's these 2 major theories on how the mind/drugs work: one camp (a bit like your statement) says things are built-in and certain feelings/states/thoughts/.. exist by default but in a 'normal' sober state the neural pathways to them are not active, and drugs just open the correct gates to be able to access them; the other camp (more like what I wrote) says drugs alter enough things in the brain to create those feelings/... from scratch i.e. not opening a gate, more like creating a gate then opening it and keeping on creating what lies beyond. I can recommend the thought experiment of trying to figure it out which one it is, especially when on drugs, it's rather interesting :) Personally I settled for believing it's a mixture of the 2, mainly because I find it hard to believe the circuitry for some of the things I experienced is readily available whereas at the same time once you have a certain experience it can have a lasting effect and the neural connections remain somehow, making it much easier to have a similar experience next time.
- grawprog 6y agoI've never tried DMT, though it's something I'd like to try. I did have an experience with entities and salvia though. I've smoked it a few times and there was always things there...it always felt like to them I was an ant they'd suddenly noticed were aware of them and they just seemed kind of amused. But one time, I tried smoking a small amout of it while chewing on some extract. I'd read that south American shamans would chew the leaves rather than smoking them. It was a totally different experience. After about ten minutes I had this extreme sense of derealization, like everything in the world was flat and 2 dimensional the like backdrop of a play and if I tried I could have just ripped it all down to see everything hidden behind it. It was a really strange feeling. Shortly after that though, was when the entity showed up. At the time, I was fairly addicted to minecraft. Like would spend ally free time playing that game. All of a sudden there was a voice screaming in my head that i'm wasting my time and life...something made...I really don't know how else to describe it, stand up and start walking into the wall over and over while the voice kept going see, this is what you've been spending your time doing. If you've ever played minecraft, it involves a lot of walking into walls to mine blocks. At that point, I started getting this overwhelming urge to go outside for a walk. I remember arguing with the thing saying it would be a bad idea to go outside. It ended up relenting and left. The whole experience was strange...I swear that must be what it feels like to be possessed or something. I know it's like just a hallucination, but it sure felt real and even remembering it it feels real. Real or not, I stopped playing minecraft after that. Haven't played more than a few hours since.
- Trasmatta 6y agoI have no desire to ever try salvia (heard too many bad things about how dysphoric it can be), but the 2D nature of it is really fascinating. You hear that same type of thing from many people. I wonder what the mechanism is that causes that to happen.
- optimalsolver 6y ago>heard too many bad things about how dysphoric it can be I tried Salvia once (35x extract which, yes, was incredibly dumb for a first timer), and my experience was so nightmarish and traumatic that I've never tried anything stronger than coffee since. Salvia is its own deterrent.
- loceng 6y agoI would argue Ayahuasca ceremonies, a group setting, with experienced individuals who are already open and have very heightened senses and higher than average sensory ability, and cataloguing the experiences individually - and then matching to see if there were shared experiences with specific entities or other beings - would be the research necessary to start creating proof points.
- harel 6y agoI remember the entities. Or in my case a singular one. I went into it with zero expectations or knowledge of what other people experience and I'm glad for that. It's amazing that the common thread of the descriptions is so similar.
- antoniuschan99 6y agoThis is a classic DMT video (starts at 2:00) https://youtu.be/awChThLHAKQ https://youtu.be/awChThLHAKQ
- johnward 6y agoReminds me of this episode of tales from the trip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1h9OjS8NTw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1h9OjS8NTw This one too (sees the same entity as his friend): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHLpB38LNg4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHLpB38LNg4
- nullsense 6y agoThe Default Mode Network codes for your sense of self in time and with others. DMT basically turns it off and that's why you feel that sense of oneness with everything right?
- WarOnPrivacy 6y agoI've always wanted a comprehensive entity guide, broken down by drug type. With that we could schedule PPV events like Mescalito vs ShadowPerson cagematches.
- pvarangot 6y agoIn my experience that guide needs a dimension of personality type or at least character traits. Most papers that analyse psychedelic experiences show that clustering by personality traits is a better or equal predictor of the type of experience than dose and (when appropriate) setting.
- WarOnPrivacy 6y agoIt'd be considerate if they wore name tags. A brief bio would be nice too.
- _6eeh 6y agoIncredibly interested in diving deeper into this. Can you point me to the best papers you've read on the topic?
- newbie789 6y agoI did quite a bit of DMT (smoked) as a teenager and absolutely loved it every time. Friends of mine also got some of their own at the time, and was REALLY interesting how similar everyone's experiences were. At first I thought maybe the whole "friendly elves" (for lack of a better phrase) thing might just be because my friends and I had read the same things about the experience and as such were predispositioned to that experience. However, a few friends that had literally never heard of DMT tried it and had virtually the same experience. Everyone I know personally that's tried it has the same "friendly fractal elves trying to show you something" or "fractal basketball" (that's what we called it) story. It's a delight and I'd at some point in the future like to try ayahuasca, but I'm very leery about MAOIs. I think a lot of people may not be aware of the very real risks associated with them. DMT itself may be relatively safe, but harmala alkaloids can be incredibly dangerous depending on the person. There was a Netflix show (I think called Wellness maybe?) that touched on the possible dangers of ayahuasca but didn't go so far as to describe the possible problems of inhibiting an enzyme (monoamine oxidase) that performs vital functions in your brain and body. I'm really glad that more and more researchers are spending more time and resources on psychedelics in general and look forward to advances that may be made in this area.