5 ms·

I will probably be going against the grain here, but I managed to rent a flat by myself while in university years ago with a part time job in a supermarket at w

by collyw 6y ago

I will probably be going against the grain here, but I managed to rent a flat by myself while in university years ago with a part time job in a supermarket at weekends and applying for some hardship funds and other money available at the time. Rents have risen a lot since then, but is it really impossible for someone in work to be able to afford rent? Or are they insisting on living in a fashionable part of town? (For me independence from my parents was quite a high priority in those days).

giantDinosaur 6y ago
In a lot of areas normal jobs are literally impossible to do at the moment. It isn't a matter of whether or not people want to do them. In my city in a non-US country you actually are doing something illegal if you go to work in certain industries or undertake extremely common activities that were normal 6 months ago. This is unique and far beyond anything me (or my parents) have ever known. No obvious end to a lot of this is in sight.
claudeganon 6y ago
Rents were already way above wage growth prior to the pandemic: https://www.cbpp.org/blog/census-income-rent-gap-grew-in-2018 https://www.cbpp.org/blog/census-income-rent-gap-grew-in-201... While I’m sure they’ve gone down a little in certain urban cores, like SF, they remain absurdly high in the midsize, Midwestern city where I grew up and now live. When I moved back, apartments here were going for only a bit less than what I paid in Los Angeles and seem to have not gone down at all. Home prices also remain artificially high because there are less listings and more interested buyers.
- swiley 6y ago
  In general rent doesn't appear to be dropping. Most landlords have mortgages and many would default if they lowered rent.
  - BlueTemplar 6y ago
    Wouldn't they also default if they cannot find anyone willing to rent at those prices ?
    - claudeganon 6y ago
      I think the strategy is to play chicken until they either go bust or get bought out by a giant corporate real estate firm.
save_ferris 6y ago
Not in my case, I was easily able to afford rent and I’ve stayed employed throughout the pandemic as a tech worker. The challenge has been maintaining my sanity. My previous apartment was small and didn’t have space for a good home office setup since I never expected to work from hone when I leased it. Additionally, I was having little social interaction due to the pandemic since Texas wasn’t doing a good job preventing spread early on. My other reason for moving in with my parents was that my company did a lot of business in the travel industry and I feared layoffs. Not having to worry about my living situation while looking for another job in the midst of a crisis was a huge relief in my mind. Fortunately, I’ve been able to stay at the same company so far. If being independent is the absolute most important thing to you, that’s great. But I’d argue that America’s individualistic culture is one of the biggest reasons we’re struggling to get past this pandemic. People demand the right to ignore basic public health requests, and it’s a major problem.
- Ar-Curunir 6y ago
  The tech industry is not representative of most industries right now.
iso1631 6y ago
I started as a trainee broadcast engineer in London on £17,800 a year in 2003. This left me with £1,082 a month (back then student loan payments were far higher than now). Rent for a tiny bedsit with a shared bathroom was £520 a month, 2 mile walk from work. I could live further out, but commuting costs outweighed any savings. That's the equivalent of £828 a month now. Bills were included. You can actually pick up a studio flat for £737 in the same area, which actually looks better - it's about 60 square feet which I think it a little smaller than the one I had, but it has it's own toilet. Council tax is on top of that at £45 a month, but still fits in the budget, just. Assuming the same 50% of take home wage in rent, or a net wage of £1500pcm, would be about £21k/year My £17800 salary in 2003 would be £28,300 today, or net of £1900pcm, so could afford (on the same ratio) £910 a month, which gives you a fair amount of choice at the moment in W14 according to rightmove. I'm surprised as I felt renting was far harder now than 20 years ago, but seems it might be slightly better. Of course rents on tiny studios are presumably depressed because of covid19, I'm not sure what they were this time last year.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jlokier 6y ago
  Where I live, most property agents will do a credit and income check, and would turn you away for not meeting the "minimum income level" for renting those places. Even if you feel you can afford spending 50% of your income, it doesn't follow that you can easily find a landlord who allows it. If you have a bad credit rating, as many people do these days, it will be even more difficult as more landlords check that than income. In my case, where I am currently living, I had insufficient income at the time I moved in to qualify, and was only allowed to rent on the condition that I paid 12 months rent up front. And then I had to do it again the following year. Obviously that's only available to people with decent savings.
  - treis 6y ago
    > Where I live, most property agents will do a credit and income check, and would turn you away for not meeting the "minimum income level" for renting those places. This is where room in a shared house comes into play. They're available for $4-500 a month in my city.
caymanjim 6y ago
You didn't manage to rent a flat by yourself. You were given money to do so, by your own admittance. I don't blame you for taking advantage, but you're using it to argue that young people can or should be able to make it on their own. You've just got anonymous parents supporting you in place of your own parents.
- collyw 6y ago
  Sorry but that doesn't address the issue at all. I got the majority of money through working, and that was at weekends and holidays, I wasn't in a position to work full time, which i am assuming the people in the article are. The university hardship funds were a bit of extra money, but not a huge amount. No one has explained what has gotten so expensive that a full time low wage job can't support it.
wpurvis 6y ago
This is something that really depends on where you live more than anything. I will say there is no state currently where you can afford an apartment by yourself making minimum wage.
- ruste 6y ago
  I've seen this claim and associated study pop up a couple of times. The study is done year on year and it's been amusing watching the increasingly long lengths they go to to hide the fact that their comparing _average_ rent for a _two bedroom_ apartment to the _minimum_ wage. Anecdotally, this is simply not true. I lived in a fairly nice area next to my university for the better part of the past five years at well below the poverty level. (~$10,000) per year so far less than minimum wage.
  - 6510 6y ago
    2 rooms is luxury now?
    - throwawayinfo 6y ago
      Yes. You can always get a roommate and split the cost.
      - 6510 6y ago
        I mean, should this be a design goal? I'm mostly voicing a much more general confusion here. I think you have to bolt down our [lets be honest] mostly imaginary system to reality in some spots. Rents can simply be adjusted to whatever people can pay. That way there is no technological or economic progress to be had for those at the bottom. The fix is in? Or let me put it like this: If I want a banana I want to pay for what it costs to grow the banana, the packaging, the logistics of it and for those who perform the miracle of trade. If all the steps involved also involve maximizing wealth extraction from those employed in those steps by [any and all means!] my banana will naturally grow in price to the point where my minimum wage has doubts if it can afford it. Not just now but forever! Regardless of anything. Regulation cant be like: We will cap the price of bananas at this point since everyone involved in making them happen for me has to pay rent that grows along with the kiwi's. I very much doubt we cant fix rent. There might be a layer or 2 of maximized wealth extraction above it. Those are not impossible to fix. If we had real collective goals we could just be like: It wont happen - forever! and get a really cheap but highly profitable banana in return. Note: I can stack bricks and run tubes though them. Its not hard and not a lot of work. IOW: I'm not impressed by a concrete box. End of the day my government owns all the land.
user5994461 6y ago
>>> but is it really impossible for someone in work to be able to afford rent? Yes. I've seen what my younger sisters and exes earned working in London in jobs like waitress or saleswoman or law. The salary simply doesn't cover rent and bills for a one bedroom. It doesn't matter how you put it, it just doesn't work.
- collyw 6y ago
  Ok, I will give you that London prices are silly, but it isn't the norm as far as the UK goes. And again I shared a flat, why does no one under 30 expect to do this any more?
  - user5994461 6y ago
    Well, people live in flatshare a lot. I don't think you can ask why they don't do it when they do it ^^ One cultural thing I noticed in London and I assume in the UK at large is the lack of studios. There are plenty of 1 bedroom but there aren't studios (200-300 sqft). If you go to Paris for comparison, you will see an incredible amount of studios. It makes a world of difference when you get 25+, you make a living and you want to be independent (forget about dating and getting married otherwise). In the absence of studio, you're forced to pay up a lot to get a one bedroom (more than what low end jobs earn so they're stuck with flatmates).

by collyw 6y ago

giantDinosaur 6y ago

In a lot of areas normal jobs are literally impossible to do at the moment. It isn't a matter of whether or not people want to do them. In my city in a non-US country you actually are doing something illegal if you go to work in certain industries or undertake extremely common activities that were normal 6 months ago. This is unique and far beyond anything me (or my parents) have ever known. No obvious end to a lot of this is in sight.

claudeganon 6y ago

Rents were already way above wage growth prior to the pandemic: https://www.cbpp.org/blog/census-income-rent-gap-grew-in-2018 https://www.cbpp.org/blog/census-income-rent-gap-grew-in-201... While I’m sure they’ve gone down a little in certain urban cores, like SF, they remain absurdly high in the midsize, Midwestern city where I grew up and now live. When I moved back, apartments here were going for only a bit less than what I paid in Los Angeles and seem to have not gone down at all. Home prices also remain artificially high because there are less listings and more interested buyers.

swiley 6y ago
In general rent doesn't appear to be dropping. Most landlords have mortgages and many would default if they lowered rent.
- BlueTemplar 6y ago
  Wouldn't they also default if they cannot find anyone willing to rent at those prices ?
  - claudeganon 6y ago
    I think the strategy is to play chicken until they either go bust or get bought out by a giant corporate real estate firm.

save_ferris 6y ago

Not in my case, I was easily able to afford rent and I’ve stayed employed throughout the pandemic as a tech worker. The challenge has been maintaining my sanity. My previous apartment was small and didn’t have space for a good home office setup since I never expected to work from hone when I leased it. Additionally, I was having little social interaction due to the pandemic since Texas wasn’t doing a good job preventing spread early on. My other reason for moving in with my parents was that my company did a lot of business in the travel industry and I feared layoffs. Not having to worry about my living situation while looking for another job in the midst of a crisis was a huge relief in my mind. Fortunately, I’ve been able to stay at the same company so far. If being independent is the absolute most important thing to you, that’s great. But I’d argue that America’s individualistic culture is one of the biggest reasons we’re struggling to get past this pandemic. People demand the right to ignore basic public health requests, and it’s a major problem.

Ar-Curunir 6y ago
The tech industry is not representative of most industries right now.

iso1631 6y ago

I started as a trainee broadcast engineer in London on £17,800 a year in 2003. This left me with £1,082 a month (back then student loan payments were far higher than now). Rent for a tiny bedsit with a shared bathroom was £520 a month, 2 mile walk from work. I could live further out, but commuting costs outweighed any savings. That's the equivalent of £828 a month now. Bills were included. You can actually pick up a studio flat for £737 in the same area, which actually looks better - it's about 60 square feet which I think it a little smaller than the one I had, but it has it's own toilet. Council tax is on top of that at £45 a month, but still fits in the budget, just. Assuming the same 50% of take home wage in rent, or a net wage of £1500pcm, would be about £21k/year My £17800 salary in 2003 would be £28,300 today, or net of £1900pcm, so could afford (on the same ratio) £910 a month, which gives you a fair amount of choice at the moment in W14 according to rightmove. I'm surprised as I felt renting was far harder now than 20 years ago, but seems it might be slightly better. Of course rents on tiny studios are presumably depressed because of covid19, I'm not sure what they were this time last year.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jlokier 6y ago
Where I live, most property agents will do a credit and income check, and would turn you away for not meeting the "minimum income level" for renting those places. Even if you feel you can afford spending 50% of your income, it doesn't follow that you can easily find a landlord who allows it. If you have a bad credit rating, as many people do these days, it will be even more difficult as more landlords check that than income. In my case, where I am currently living, I had insufficient income at the time I moved in to qualify, and was only allowed to rent on the condition that I paid 12 months rent up front. And then I had to do it again the following year. Obviously that's only available to people with decent savings.
- treis 6y ago
  > Where I live, most property agents will do a credit and income check, and would turn you away for not meeting the "minimum income level" for renting those places. This is where room in a shared house comes into play. They're available for $4-500 a month in my city.

caymanjim 6y ago

You didn't manage to rent a flat by yourself. You were given money to do so, by your own admittance. I don't blame you for taking advantage, but you're using it to argue that young people can or should be able to make it on their own. You've just got anonymous parents supporting you in place of your own parents.

collyw 6y ago
Sorry but that doesn't address the issue at all. I got the majority of money through working, and that was at weekends and holidays, I wasn't in a position to work full time, which i am assuming the people in the article are. The university hardship funds were a bit of extra money, but not a huge amount. No one has explained what has gotten so expensive that a full time low wage job can't support it.

wpurvis 6y ago

This is something that really depends on where you live more than anything. I will say there is no state currently where you can afford an apartment by yourself making minimum wage.

ruste 6y ago
I've seen this claim and associated study pop up a couple of times. The study is done year on year and it's been amusing watching the increasingly long lengths they go to to hide the fact that their comparing _average_ rent for a _two bedroom_ apartment to the _minimum_ wage. Anecdotally, this is simply not true. I lived in a fairly nice area next to my university for the better part of the past five years at well below the poverty level. (~$10,000) per year so far less than minimum wage.
- 6510 6y ago
  2 rooms is luxury now?
  - throwawayinfo 6y ago
    Yes. You can always get a roommate and split the cost.
    - 6510 6y ago
      I mean, should this be a design goal? I'm mostly voicing a much more general confusion here. I think you have to bolt down our [lets be honest] mostly imaginary system to reality in some spots. Rents can simply be adjusted to whatever people can pay. That way there is no technological or economic progress to be had for those at the bottom. The fix is in? Or let me put it like this: If I want a banana I want to pay for what it costs to grow the banana, the packaging, the logistics of it and for those who perform the miracle of trade. If all the steps involved also involve maximizing wealth extraction from those employed in those steps by [any and all means!] my banana will naturally grow in price to the point where my minimum wage has doubts if it can afford it. Not just now but forever! Regardless of anything. Regulation cant be like: We will cap the price of bananas at this point since everyone involved in making them happen for me has to pay rent that grows along with the kiwi's. I very much doubt we cant fix rent. There might be a layer or 2 of maximized wealth extraction above it. Those are not impossible to fix. If we had real collective goals we could just be like: It wont happen - forever! and get a really cheap but highly profitable banana in return. Note: I can stack bricks and run tubes though them. Its not hard and not a lot of work. IOW: I'm not impressed by a concrete box. End of the day my government owns all the land.

user5994461 6y ago

>>> but is it really impossible for someone in work to be able to afford rent? Yes. I've seen what my younger sisters and exes earned working in London in jobs like waitress or saleswoman or law. The salary simply doesn't cover rent and bills for a one bedroom. It doesn't matter how you put it, it just doesn't work.

collyw 6y ago
Ok, I will give you that London prices are silly, but it isn't the norm as far as the UK goes. And again I shared a flat, why does no one under 30 expect to do this any more?
- user5994461 6y ago
  Well, people live in flatshare a lot. I don't think you can ask why they don't do it when they do it ^^ One cultural thing I noticed in London and I assume in the UK at large is the lack of studios. There are plenty of 1 bedroom but there aren't studios (200-300 sqft). If you go to Paris for comparison, you will see an incredible amount of studios. It makes a world of difference when you get 25+, you make a living and you want to be independent (forget about dating and getting married otherwise). In the absence of studio, you're forced to pay up a lot to get a one bedroom (more than what low end jobs earn so they're stuck with flatmates).