5 ms·

I'd refrain from saying half of American Republicans believe something so fringe without real data.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
listennexttime 6y ago
It's pretty easy to find other sources that cover the same survey that is shown in the graphic of the grandparent's comment. (Business Insider, for example: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/republicans-bill-gates-covid-19-vaccine-tracking-microchip-study-2020-5 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/republicans-bill-gates-co...) Keep in mind this survey was in May and I'd be willing to bet the numbers have grown, as I've watched QAnon grow, multiple mainstream Republicans have embraced them (and won primaries) and the Vice President was slated to attend a fundraiser put on by a QAnon group until days of pressure forced him to cancel just days ago. I've watched HN downplay gamergate. I've watched it downplay climate change (until recently, finally). I've watched it downplay anti-intellectualism at every turn, whether it be flat-eartherism, anti-vaxxers, or qanon, there's this purveying sense of "it will all work out", and that's just completely out-of-touch with reality. Here's a fun one for some background on QAnon, and how the rest of the world perceives it/us right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7YPZxqJDYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7YPZxqJDYQ And for a complete understanding of how Flat Eartherism proud anti-illectualism has DIRECTLY LED US TO QANON, this video is invaluable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44 It spells it out step-by-step and I'd love to hear someone try to respond to it. I haven't even expressed any of my own political feelings but I'm sick of watching people use ovenmits to talk about the fact that the anti-intellecutual, pro-conspiratorial actors are by and large self-identified as "conservative", or "Republican" or "pro-Trump". We can't keep acting like this isn't the case. All of these issues, politics, conspiracy theories, online echo chambers in the time of COVID? These are all issues of identity to a certain segment of the population. And acting like "public discourse" is going to sort it out, or ignoring the realities of the situation just isn't going to help. Just in the last few days: "Antifa are lighting fires in Oregon" (this was repeated, inaccurately, by law enforcement official in OR, as well), there's some new USPS SMS phishing scam that is now supposedly tied to child trafficking according to QAnoners. It's fucking mental illness, I'm sorry, I'm tired of tiptoeing around it.
- abraxas 6y ago
  Thanks for stating this so lucidly. I believe that software engineers oftentimes have a libertarian bent in their inclination so the Republican party gets a lot of leeway here that it does not deserve (since it is perceived as being closer to libertarian views because they pay some lip service to the idea of small government) . I somewhat identify with some libertarian ideals but there is no reason to sugarcoat that a good chunk of the Republican electorate are batshit insane and believe in some of the most laughable nonsense.
  - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
    > since it is perceived as being closer to libertarian views because they pay some lip service to the idea of small government I've always found that "libertarian is closer to Republican than Democrat" take from libertarians mildly exasperating. There's a case for it economically, but in terms of social policy Republicans have long been pretty damn supportive of the state restricting individual liberty, whether on a federal level (abortion, LGBT rights, etc.) or a state level (the myriad ways "states' rights" has been used as a cover for blatant discrimination). It's depressing that so many libertarians have decided, when push comes to shove, that higher taxes are worse than calculated bigotry -- and, as you note, increasingly conspiratorial nonsense.
  - BuckRogers 6y ago
    Libertarianism is officially dead if one chooses to see reality today for what it is today in the US. The coronavirus pandemic has proven that you cannot let people simply do what they want to do, and they will do the right thing. It’s proven that people need a leader.
    - abraxas 6y ago
      I mean yes, libertarianism at its core is a terribly flawed ideology because it fails to account for the phenomenon of the tragedy of the commons. The market forces they believe in do not react quickly enough to avert environmental or health disasters. That said, I have a level of sympathy for the ideal of everyone having a full agency of their body and their actions. It’s just that it’s a utopian ideal that fails to work in practice if adopted to its conclusion.
free_rms 6y ago
That's only 25% of people in general.. round up to 27% and you've got the Alan Keyes Crazification Factor. http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-c...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

It's pretty easy to find other sources that cover the same survey that is shown in the graphic of the grandparent's comment. (Business Insider, for example: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/republicans-bill-gates-covid-19-vaccine-tracking-microchip-study-2020-5 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/republicans-bill-gates-co...) Keep in mind this survey was in May and I'd be willing to bet the numbers have grown, as I've watched QAnon grow, multiple mainstream Republicans have embraced them (and won primaries) and the Vice President was slated to attend a fundraiser put on by a QAnon group until days of pressure forced him to cancel just days ago. I've watched HN downplay gamergate. I've watched it downplay climate change (until recently, finally). I've watched it downplay anti-intellectualism at every turn, whether it be flat-eartherism, anti-vaxxers, or qanon, there's this purveying sense of "it will all work out", and that's just completely out-of-touch with reality. Here's a fun one for some background on QAnon, and how the rest of the world perceives it/us right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7YPZxqJDYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7YPZxqJDYQ And for a complete understanding of how Flat Eartherism proud anti-illectualism has DIRECTLY LED US TO QANON, this video is invaluable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44 It spells it out step-by-step and I'd love to hear someone try to respond to it. I haven't even expressed any of my own political feelings but I'm sick of watching people use ovenmits to talk about the fact that the anti-intellecutual, pro-conspiratorial actors are by and large self-identified as "conservative", or "Republican" or "pro-Trump". We can't keep acting like this isn't the case. All of these issues, politics, conspiracy theories, online echo chambers in the time of COVID? These are all issues of identity to a certain segment of the population. And acting like "public discourse" is going to sort it out, or ignoring the realities of the situation just isn't going to help. Just in the last few days: "Antifa are lighting fires in Oregon" (this was repeated, inaccurately, by law enforcement official in OR, as well), there's some new USPS SMS phishing scam that is now supposedly tied to child trafficking according to QAnoners. It's fucking mental illness, I'm sorry, I'm tired of tiptoeing around it.

abraxas 6y ago
Thanks for stating this so lucidly. I believe that software engineers oftentimes have a libertarian bent in their inclination so the Republican party gets a lot of leeway here that it does not deserve (since it is perceived as being closer to libertarian views because they pay some lip service to the idea of small government) . I somewhat identify with some libertarian ideals but there is no reason to sugarcoat that a good chunk of the Republican electorate are batshit insane and believe in some of the most laughable nonsense.
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  > since it is perceived as being closer to libertarian views because they pay some lip service to the idea of small government I've always found that "libertarian is closer to Republican than Democrat" take from libertarians mildly exasperating. There's a case for it economically, but in terms of social policy Republicans have long been pretty damn supportive of the state restricting individual liberty, whether on a federal level (abortion, LGBT rights, etc.) or a state level (the myriad ways "states' rights" has been used as a cover for blatant discrimination). It's depressing that so many libertarians have decided, when push comes to shove, that higher taxes are worse than calculated bigotry -- and, as you note, increasingly conspiratorial nonsense.
- BuckRogers 6y ago
  Libertarianism is officially dead if one chooses to see reality today for what it is today in the US. The coronavirus pandemic has proven that you cannot let people simply do what they want to do, and they will do the right thing. It’s proven that people need a leader.
  - abraxas 6y ago
    I mean yes, libertarianism at its core is a terribly flawed ideology because it fails to account for the phenomenon of the tragedy of the commons. The market forces they believe in do not react quickly enough to avert environmental or health disasters. That said, I have a level of sympathy for the ideal of everyone having a full agency of their body and their actions. It’s just that it’s a utopian ideal that fails to work in practice if adopted to its conclusion.

free_rms 6y ago

That's only 25% of people in general.. round up to 27% and you've got the Alan Keyes Crazification Factor. http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-c...