7 ms·

>I'm not looking forward to any smoke now my dad has COPD, IPF, is on oxygen, and he's elderly. If we get any amount of smoke here it will be the end of him. It

by hguant 6y ago

>I'm not looking forward to any smoke now my dad has COPD, IPF, is on oxygen, and he's elderly. If we get any amount of smoke here it will be the end of him. It's hard enough trying to keep him from contracting SARS-Cov-2 and developing covid-19 Seriously, get a HEPA rated air filter. Speaking as someone who has some serious lung issues, it's literally life changing/saving. Honeywell sells a number of models, cost is between 150-270 USD, depending on the size/amount of air you want moved.

EricE 6y ago
This. My sleep has greatly improved since putting a HEPA filter in my bedroom and I rather enjoy the white noise of the fan. Good units like the Sharp Plasmacluster I use have a large, slow moving blower (not a higher speed fan with fewer, larger blades) so the noise is very subtle.
- Sulamitachica 6y ago
  I also have HEPA filters throughout my house. They have improved my sleep and reduced my allergies even.
Scoundreller 6y ago
Or in a pinch, a HEPA vacuum cleaner. Double points if you rig it to take in outside air and vent it inside to create a positive pressure of filtered air. This should work.
- gkop 6y ago
  Would you say more about the double points idea? Our Coway is struggling to filter our small apartment just recirculating air. It would be amazing to be able to bring in filtered cool outside air, but I haven’t found any HEPA purifiers on the market with an intake hose or window mount (short of a permanent HVAC).
  - lacker 6y ago
    How exactly is your Coway struggling? Typically it is harder for a filter to clean the air in your apartment when you are bringing in extra outside air. If you have a good filter but it is not managing to clean the air in your apartment, the most likely problems are that your apartment is too large for the filter's capacity, or that your apartment leaks air in from outside so that your filter can't counteract the effects of the leaking.
    - gkop 6y ago
      Yes, apartment too large and poorly sealed. > Typically it is harder for a filter to clean the air in your apartment when you are bringing in extra outside air That was my point. Bringing in outside air would be a luxury. Btw just ordered passive filters for the windows for super cheap- perhaps that will move the needle on how much outside air we can bring in while maintaining indoor AQI. Still curious about the positive pressure idea. If it’s effective, I’d expect someone to productize it.
  - jrockway 6y ago
    IQAir sells kits for directing the intake or output of their air filters to a vent. It's super expensive and obviously aimed at commercial customers, but I'm sure they'll sell it to you.
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    Take HEPA equipped vacuum cleaner. Put nozzle outside to suck in outside air. Put main unit inside to exhaust filtered air inside. Seal window crack however which way you can. Tape and a block of wood with a 3” circular hole? Voilà. Might be a good idea to pre-filter nozzle air to keep your HEPA for the small stuff. And have a good stock of replacement vacuum filters. And earplugs... Energy auditors will install a “fan door” to build pressure inside your home to smoke-test for air leaks. This is the same concept, except filtering the incoming air and helping to ensure your air-leaks are 1-way: out. But this is all no competition for a stiff wind.
    - gkop 6y ago
Qub3d 6y ago
The University of Michigan made an instructional video showing how you can easily make an air purifier out of a box fan and a HEPA-rated furnace filter for $25: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU It won't be as good as a purpose-built machine, but it will be far better than nothing at all. TheWirecutter found it reduced particulate matter in a room by 87%, if you do it right. They also make clear important caveats about this method -- in short, this works in a pinch, but probably should not be used in place of a purpose-built filter if you want one for year-round use. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air-purifier/#what-if-you-just-put-a-furnace-filter-on-a-box-fan https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air-purifier...
- ALittleLight 6y ago
  I have two of these running right now. According to my air quality meter, PM 2.5 has fallen from about ~250 indoors to ~40. (My meter shows ~600 outside, which is about 3x what the government website shows for my area)
  - meristem 6y ago
    Government website most likely using an algorithm that pools data and takes into consideration multiple readings, sometimes lagging by a few hours. Your sensor gives the instant value in your immediate environment (assuming it is well-calibrated and installed outside of local influences such as kitchen fans, dryer lint etc etc)
  - koolba 6y ago
    What do you use to measure air quality?
    - ALittleLight 6y ago
      I use this thing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787Z5DK9 https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787Z5DK9 I'm not sure how accurate it is or isn't. It reacts to the filters, for example, or if I hold it in front of the filter it'll reach a very low number, conversely if I take it to other parts of the house or outside it'll increase. I've done a few trials like that and it seems directionally accurate, but I can't speak to the numerical accuracy. It measures PM 2.5 and 10 and has a button to show graphs over time for ~12 hours. Battery life is pretty good, I usually leave it detecting on the charger, but I've had it in handheld mode for several hours and stayed above 80%. It's super simple to use. One thing I don't like about it is that it has a cheap plastic hinge that is supposed to let it stand up, but it broke on me after a couple uses. It doesn't seem to matter though if it's standing up or laying down, it still reads pretty much the same. I wish it had a way to export data to my computer or maybe an app.
pmiller2 6y ago
If you have COPD or other serious lung issues, don't get just one HEPA filter. These machines are rated to filter the air in an area that's certain number of square feet, based on how many CFM of air they move. Get at least enough of them that your whole living space is covered, and deploy them throughout the entire dwelling. You may want more individual machines so you can run them on a lower fan setting, which produces less noise. Assuming availability of outlets, you can also go for a larger number of smaller machines, each with a lower CFM rating, which should also reduce the noise level somewhat. I personally use Winix machines. I don't think it matters much in terms of efficacy which brand you use, so, consider the cost of replacement filters here. The machines I bought were around $200 each, and worth every penny, IMHO. My machines are both made for environments with pets, so they have a pre-filter to catch large things like dog fur, and they also have an activated carbon filter to pull odors out of the air. The carbon filter is quite effective. Unfortunately, I was able to test this first-hand, by observing that I could no longer smell dog poop after about 10 minutes of the machine running in the room said poop was in. I wouldn't worry about silly features like accompanying smartphone apps, or any kind of "ion technology." IMO, that stuff is mostly marketing fluff, and just adds complexity to what should basically be a small fan with a filtered intake. I've found my machines to be very effective in cleaning the air inside my apartment. I've been lucky enough so far to not have any issues from the Bay Area smoke, despite having asthma and allergies. I credit that to my HEPA filter machines, as well as wearing an N95 mask outside whenever the AQI is too high. As an aside, I once put one of my machines (each rated for around 300 sq. ft., IIRC) inside my bathroom, which is no more than about 30 sq. ft., for a while. Eventually, the air in there smelled so clean, it literally took me back to the days when I used to regularly work in a class 1,000 (ISO 3) electronics clean room. "Class 1,000" means the air inside is supposed to contain no more than 10^3 particle >= 0.1 µm in diameter per m^3 of air. Once you've smelled the air inside a decently high level clean room, you'll recognize it when you come across it again. It smells like a glorious whole lot of nothing, which makes my allergies happy. :-). For reference, ordinary, unfiltered, not-apparently-dusty air typically has about 10^6 particles >=0.1 µm per m^3.
- amluto 6y ago
  The area covered is somewhat useless — actual coverage depends hugely on how leaky the building is and how windy it is. The goal is to get enough air through filters that the incoming smoky air is diluted enough by filtered air to achieve a good average particle count. A handheld particle counter helps a lot.
pchristensen 6y ago
They're a little hard to come by right now.
vmchale 6y ago
My 2c is that they will be popular the way hand sanitizer once was, I could see shortages so the earlier you get your order the better!
- goostavos 6y ago
  Your prediction is correct. Home Depot's shelves were picked bare at my Seattle store.
jschwartzi 6y ago
If you have central heat you can sometimes configure the thermostat to run the blower separately from the heating element. This creates a nice positive pressure environment. If you have a MERV 10 or better filter installed on the furnace then it's actually pulling in filtered air, as any high enough MERV filter will filter PM2.5 with a decent efficiency. I think they start filtering PM2.5 at about MERV 10, and by MERV 13 they're filtering 90% or more of PM2.5.
- BoiledCabbage 6y ago
  MERV Table with filtration amounts - https://www.lakeair.com/merv-rating-explanation/ https://www.lakeair.com/merv-rating-explanation/ I'm guessing the table lists filtration for a single pass through the filter. But through constant circulation a greater reduction in air particulate can be achieved. Anyone know this for certain?
  - mehrzad 6y ago
    I would like to know this as well but the way the products are advertised, it would seem that this isn't a single pass-through measurement (see The Wirecutter)
- meristem 6y ago
  Also something to consider: electrostatic in-line filtering, which generally combines electrostatic cells plus 2 levels of filters
- ComputerGuru 6y ago
  Where is the positive pressure element coming from? Most residential HVAC systems are closed and do not have an intake (note: not commercial, which are typically in the USA required to include an air exchanger or other fresh air ventilation component). Your typical 1980s construction home likely does not have mechanical ventilation, the only inlet would be for fresh air to facilitate the combustion in the furnace (alongside an exhaust for carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide).
  - 6y ago

by hguant 6y ago

EricE 6y ago

This. My sleep has greatly improved since putting a HEPA filter in my bedroom and I rather enjoy the white noise of the fan. Good units like the Sharp Plasmacluster I use have a large, slow moving blower (not a higher speed fan with fewer, larger blades) so the noise is very subtle.

Sulamitachica 6y ago
I also have HEPA filters throughout my house. They have improved my sleep and reduced my allergies even.

Scoundreller 6y ago

Or in a pinch, a HEPA vacuum cleaner. Double points if you rig it to take in outside air and vent it inside to create a positive pressure of filtered air. This should work.

gkop 6y ago
Would you say more about the double points idea? Our Coway is struggling to filter our small apartment just recirculating air. It would be amazing to be able to bring in filtered cool outside air, but I haven’t found any HEPA purifiers on the market with an intake hose or window mount (short of a permanent HVAC).
- lacker 6y ago
  How exactly is your Coway struggling? Typically it is harder for a filter to clean the air in your apartment when you are bringing in extra outside air. If you have a good filter but it is not managing to clean the air in your apartment, the most likely problems are that your apartment is too large for the filter's capacity, or that your apartment leaks air in from outside so that your filter can't counteract the effects of the leaking.
  - gkop 6y ago
    Yes, apartment too large and poorly sealed. > Typically it is harder for a filter to clean the air in your apartment when you are bringing in extra outside air That was my point. Bringing in outside air would be a luxury. Btw just ordered passive filters for the windows for super cheap- perhaps that will move the needle on how much outside air we can bring in while maintaining indoor AQI. Still curious about the positive pressure idea. If it’s effective, I’d expect someone to productize it.
- jrockway 6y ago
  IQAir sells kits for directing the intake or output of their air filters to a vent. It's super expensive and obviously aimed at commercial customers, but I'm sure they'll sell it to you.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Take HEPA equipped vacuum cleaner. Put nozzle outside to suck in outside air. Put main unit inside to exhaust filtered air inside. Seal window crack however which way you can. Tape and a block of wood with a 3” circular hole? Voilà. Might be a good idea to pre-filter nozzle air to keep your HEPA for the small stuff. And have a good stock of replacement vacuum filters. And earplugs... Energy auditors will install a “fan door” to build pressure inside your home to smoke-test for air leaks. This is the same concept, except filtering the incoming air and helping to ensure your air-leaks are 1-way: out. But this is all no competition for a stiff wind.
  - gkop 6y ago

Qub3d 6y ago

The University of Michigan made an instructional video showing how you can easily make an air purifier out of a box fan and a HEPA-rated furnace filter for $25: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU It won't be as good as a purpose-built machine, but it will be far better than nothing at all. TheWirecutter found it reduced particulate matter in a room by 87%, if you do it right. They also make clear important caveats about this method -- in short, this works in a pinch, but probably should not be used in place of a purpose-built filter if you want one for year-round use. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air-purifier/#what-if-you-just-put-a-furnace-filter-on-a-box-fan https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air-purifier...

ALittleLight 6y ago
I have two of these running right now. According to my air quality meter, PM 2.5 has fallen from about ~250 indoors to ~40. (My meter shows ~600 outside, which is about 3x what the government website shows for my area)
- meristem 6y ago
  Government website most likely using an algorithm that pools data and takes into consideration multiple readings, sometimes lagging by a few hours. Your sensor gives the instant value in your immediate environment (assuming it is well-calibrated and installed outside of local influences such as kitchen fans, dryer lint etc etc)
- koolba 6y ago
  What do you use to measure air quality?
  - ALittleLight 6y ago
    I use this thing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787Z5DK9 https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787Z5DK9 I'm not sure how accurate it is or isn't. It reacts to the filters, for example, or if I hold it in front of the filter it'll reach a very low number, conversely if I take it to other parts of the house or outside it'll increase. I've done a few trials like that and it seems directionally accurate, but I can't speak to the numerical accuracy. It measures PM 2.5 and 10 and has a button to show graphs over time for ~12 hours. Battery life is pretty good, I usually leave it detecting on the charger, but I've had it in handheld mode for several hours and stayed above 80%. It's super simple to use. One thing I don't like about it is that it has a cheap plastic hinge that is supposed to let it stand up, but it broke on me after a couple uses. It doesn't seem to matter though if it's standing up or laying down, it still reads pretty much the same. I wish it had a way to export data to my computer or maybe an app.

pmiller2 6y ago

If you have COPD or other serious lung issues, don't get just one HEPA filter. These machines are rated to filter the air in an area that's certain number of square feet, based on how many CFM of air they move. Get at least enough of them that your whole living space is covered, and deploy them throughout the entire dwelling. You may want more individual machines so you can run them on a lower fan setting, which produces less noise. Assuming availability of outlets, you can also go for a larger number of smaller machines, each with a lower CFM rating, which should also reduce the noise level somewhat. I personally use Winix machines. I don't think it matters much in terms of efficacy which brand you use, so, consider the cost of replacement filters here. The machines I bought were around $200 each, and worth every penny, IMHO. My machines are both made for environments with pets, so they have a pre-filter to catch large things like dog fur, and they also have an activated carbon filter to pull odors out of the air. The carbon filter is quite effective. Unfortunately, I was able to test this first-hand, by observing that I could no longer smell dog poop after about 10 minutes of the machine running in the room said poop was in. I wouldn't worry about silly features like accompanying smartphone apps, or any kind of "ion technology." IMO, that stuff is mostly marketing fluff, and just adds complexity to what should basically be a small fan with a filtered intake. I've found my machines to be very effective in cleaning the air inside my apartment. I've been lucky enough so far to not have any issues from the Bay Area smoke, despite having asthma and allergies. I credit that to my HEPA filter machines, as well as wearing an N95 mask outside whenever the AQI is too high. As an aside, I once put one of my machines (each rated for around 300 sq. ft., IIRC) inside my bathroom, which is no more than about 30 sq. ft., for a while. Eventually, the air in there smelled so clean, it literally took me back to the days when I used to regularly work in a class 1,000 (ISO 3) electronics clean room. "Class 1,000" means the air inside is supposed to contain no more than 10^3 particle >= 0.1 µm in diameter per m^3 of air. Once you've smelled the air inside a decently high level clean room, you'll recognize it when you come across it again. It smells like a glorious whole lot of nothing, which makes my allergies happy. :-). For reference, ordinary, unfiltered, not-apparently-dusty air typically has about 10^6 particles >=0.1 µm per m^3.

amluto 6y ago
The area covered is somewhat useless — actual coverage depends hugely on how leaky the building is and how windy it is. The goal is to get enough air through filters that the incoming smoky air is diluted enough by filtered air to achieve a good average particle count. A handheld particle counter helps a lot.

pchristensen 6y ago

They're a little hard to come by right now.

vmchale 6y ago

My 2c is that they will be popular the way hand sanitizer once was, I could see shortages so the earlier you get your order the better!

goostavos 6y ago
Your prediction is correct. Home Depot's shelves were picked bare at my Seattle store.

jschwartzi 6y ago

If you have central heat you can sometimes configure the thermostat to run the blower separately from the heating element. This creates a nice positive pressure environment. If you have a MERV 10 or better filter installed on the furnace then it's actually pulling in filtered air, as any high enough MERV filter will filter PM2.5 with a decent efficiency. I think they start filtering PM2.5 at about MERV 10, and by MERV 13 they're filtering 90% or more of PM2.5.

BoiledCabbage 6y ago
MERV Table with filtration amounts - https://www.lakeair.com/merv-rating-explanation/ https://www.lakeair.com/merv-rating-explanation/ I'm guessing the table lists filtration for a single pass through the filter. But through constant circulation a greater reduction in air particulate can be achieved. Anyone know this for certain?
- mehrzad 6y ago
  I would like to know this as well but the way the products are advertised, it would seem that this isn't a single pass-through measurement (see The Wirecutter)
meristem 6y ago
Also something to consider: electrostatic in-line filtering, which generally combines electrostatic cells plus 2 levels of filters
ComputerGuru 6y ago
Where is the positive pressure element coming from? Most residential HVAC systems are closed and do not have an intake (note: not commercial, which are typically in the USA required to include an air exchanger or other fresh air ventilation component). Your typical 1980s construction home likely does not have mechanical ventilation, the only inlet would be for fresh air to facilitate the combustion in the furnace (alongside an exhaust for carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide).
- 6y ago