4 ms·

I don't get the analogy - could you explain more? Disc: Googler.

iamgopal 6y ago
Google's energy consumption to make goods is zero. Achieving similar zero carbon foot print is next to impossible for lower profit margin fertilizer production. ( i.e. third world countries, as a whole, are working at quite less profit margins, and because of that, have trouble achieving similar zero carbon footprint. Ultimately All the profits are moving to west.
rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
I rephrased my comment (hopes it help). Another mediocre analogy on the subject that you may find both relevant and funny: "I spread germs all over town today but I bought coronavirus offsets so we’re all good". via https://twitter.com/WeiZhangAtmos/status/1245890907511181312 https://twitter.com/WeiZhangAtmos/status/1245890907511181312
- ZeroGravitas 6y ago
  Isnt this effectively what all governments are doing? Paying people to stay home so that other people with essential roles can carry on with less chance of spreading covid?
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
    No. That would be the case only if essential workers were using their government-issued permit to go to night clubs without mask nor physical distancing, and pretend to not spread germs because others are staying at home.
- dariusj18 6y ago
  Hrm, that's not a bad idea. Perhaps if we use the market to fix the pandemic. The Invisible Hand covering your mouth when you sneeze.
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  As far as I can tell the only problem with offsets is that it's difficult to account for. If you buy offsets for 1 ton of carbon, it's difficult to ensure that the offsets represent carbon that would actually be added to the atmosphere if not for that funding. Is your comment just extreme pessimism about the efficacy of the auditors or are you remarking that one can't offset their carbon (i.e., co2 isn't fungible)?
- jefftk 6y ago
  I don't think the analogy works; what would a coronavirus offset be?
rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
Here's why offsets are bullshit. Imagine that I go and plant trees every weekend, because I like them and because I don't want to see my world burn. I'm planting trees, everyone is happy. One day, someone contact me and say "I like your work! Would you like to receive 50 cents for every next tree you plant? I want to support you. Just print a paper certifying that I'm supporting your work". I can't refuse that offer, right? I'm getting paid to plant trees! My new treelover friend is happy too: he's saving the world, and he can travel all over the world without remorse, since he's offsetting his flights.
- unethical_ban 6y ago
  Your analogy misses a critical component: Your 50 cent stipend is typically attached to doing more than you were doing before. And while the point of your analogy is clear, your neighbor could only travel the world without remorse if they fund a huge number of new trees. Offsets are not as illogical as you make them sound.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
    >typically attached to doing more than you were doing before. I'd love to read the details. Here [0], Easyjet pretend to be offsetting 100% carbon emitted during their flights: https://www.easyjet.com/fr/developpement-durable https://www.easyjet.com/fr/developpement-durable Where are the huge Easyjet forests? Planted just so the rich can fly? I'm sure they have some kind of contract, somewhere, but I can't verify that. And of course any "new" tree can be attached to an offset, that isn't the problem. How can a third-party says that this tree wouldn't have been planted otherwise, when whole world has no choice but go greener/cleaner? All those who make genuine efforts would be stupid not to take the cash (prisoner dilemma). Carbon offsetting is buying time to slow down changes in devastating behaviors.
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      Are you being willfully obtuse or do you seriously believe the only way (or even the most effective way) to lower carbon emissions is by planting trees?
lowiqengineer 6y ago
Weird time to flex, right?

Google's energy consumption to make goods is zero. Achieving similar zero carbon foot print is next to impossible for lower profit margin fertilizer production. ( i.e. third world countries, as a whole, are working at quite less profit margins, and because of that, have trouble achieving similar zero carbon footprint. Ultimately All the profits are moving to west.

rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago

I rephrased my comment (hopes it help). Another mediocre analogy on the subject that you may find both relevant and funny: "I spread germs all over town today but I bought coronavirus offsets so we’re all good". via https://twitter.com/WeiZhangAtmos/status/1245890907511181312 https://twitter.com/WeiZhangAtmos/status/1245890907511181312

ZeroGravitas 6y ago
Isnt this effectively what all governments are doing? Paying people to stay home so that other people with essential roles can carry on with less chance of spreading covid?
- rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
  No. That would be the case only if essential workers were using their government-issued permit to go to night clubs without mask nor physical distancing, and pretend to not spread germs because others are staying at home.
dariusj18 6y ago
Hrm, that's not a bad idea. Perhaps if we use the market to fix the pandemic. The Invisible Hand covering your mouth when you sneeze.
throwaway894345 6y ago
As far as I can tell the only problem with offsets is that it's difficult to account for. If you buy offsets for 1 ton of carbon, it's difficult to ensure that the offsets represent carbon that would actually be added to the atmosphere if not for that funding. Is your comment just extreme pessimism about the efficacy of the auditors or are you remarking that one can't offset their carbon (i.e., co2 isn't fungible)?
jefftk 6y ago
I don't think the analogy works; what would a coronavirus offset be?

rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago

Here's why offsets are bullshit. Imagine that I go and plant trees every weekend, because I like them and because I don't want to see my world burn. I'm planting trees, everyone is happy. One day, someone contact me and say "I like your work! Would you like to receive 50 cents for every next tree you plant? I want to support you. Just print a paper certifying that I'm supporting your work". I can't refuse that offer, right? I'm getting paid to plant trees! My new treelover friend is happy too: he's saving the world, and he can travel all over the world without remorse, since he's offsetting his flights.

unethical_ban 6y ago
Your analogy misses a critical component: Your 50 cent stipend is typically attached to doing more than you were doing before. And while the point of your analogy is clear, your neighbor could only travel the world without remorse if they fund a huge number of new trees. Offsets are not as illogical as you make them sound.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
  >typically attached to doing more than you were doing before. I'd love to read the details. Here [0], Easyjet pretend to be offsetting 100% carbon emitted during their flights: https://www.easyjet.com/fr/developpement-durable https://www.easyjet.com/fr/developpement-durable Where are the huge Easyjet forests? Planted just so the rich can fly? I'm sure they have some kind of contract, somewhere, but I can't verify that. And of course any "new" tree can be attached to an offset, that isn't the problem. How can a third-party says that this tree wouldn't have been planted otherwise, when whole world has no choice but go greener/cleaner? All those who make genuine efforts would be stupid not to take the cash (prisoner dilemma). Carbon offsetting is buying time to slow down changes in devastating behaviors.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    Are you being willfully obtuse or do you seriously believe the only way (or even the most effective way) to lower carbon emissions is by planting trees?

lowiqengineer 6y ago

Weird time to flex, right?