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Here's what I am guessing it is: - Bytedance retains some ownership and control of the app and the algorithms - Oracle runs the entire back end on their infra

by rladd 6y ago

Here's what I am guessing it is: - Bytedance retains some ownership and control of the app and the algorithms - Oracle runs the entire back end on their infrastructure - Oracle guarantees to the US government that no data is going back to China (because they control the release of the app and control the back end) - This satisfies the USA's (supposed) national security concerns and also satisfies China because TikTok is not actually being "sold" to a US company.

freedomben 6y ago
Reasonable guess, although I think it would be impossible to guarantee that no data is going back to China.
- rladd 6y ago
  Oracle can audit the app code and also probably sandbox the back end in such a way that they can be fairly sure things aren't escaping, at least not on a large scale.
AznHisoka 6y ago
What about the CDN that TikTok uses in Fastly? Will it be replaced by Oracle?
- ETHisso2017 6y ago
  spotted the daytrader lmao
- tick_tock_tick 6y ago
  Almost certainly why would they use a third party for stuff they offer themselves?
redwood 6y ago
Impressive speculation: your theory is the most compelling in seeing here
- takeda 6y ago
  And looks like that's what happened? So both Oracle and Walmart only own the 20% of that new company?
Fej 6y ago
This is a fantastic idea - the only thing missing (that I see) is that Oracle would need to see the source code and verify that the checksum of the apps built from that code matches the downloads from the Google Play Store and App Store. Otherwise the guarantee that no data is being sent to China is not airtight. Oracle could audit the app every time it gets an update and watch network traffic, but this would miss anything sent by code activated remotely after the fact. It wouldn't work for long, but the US government will look for any reason to deny this deal. I don't think Oracle will audit the app constantly anyway. Come to think of it, that could apply to the source code too, if the malicious code was extremely well hidden.
- rladd 6y ago
  Right, they will audit the source code but have no IP rights to it, is my guess. Also they will probably take over responsibility for the Play and App Store accounts and be responsible for pushing the new versions (after audit).
- PeterStuer 6y ago
  How would they shuttle out that much traffic undetected?
  - dcolkitt 6y ago
    It is a video app. Couldn't you embed the embargoed data into the media content using steganography. All the receiver of the data would need to do is download a modified version of the client, then collect the data. From the server side it would just look like a normal TikTok app watching videos.
shreyshrey 6y ago
Yes. I think you are right. ByteDance is not selling Tiktok outright. They will be using oracle cloud infrastructure. But not sure if that will be enough for the current administration. It feels like tiktok is playing smart.
mike_d 6y ago
If it was that simple, Google would have been the obvious choice. They have already started migrating to GCP and signed an $800 million dollar three year deal. https://www.theinformation.com/articles/tiktok-agreed-to-buy-more-than-800-million-in-cloud-services-from-google https://www.theinformation.com/articles/tiktok-agreed-to-buy...
- wegs 6y ago
  Only Google doesn't really do B2B. They're B2C. Oracle does B2B.
  - Bombthecat 6y ago
    Uhhh what?
  - birdyrooster 6y ago
    They've been doing AdWords since 2000 and AdSense since 2003. Those are B2B and have made them many hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue.
    - wegs 6y ago
      Yes. It's made THEM billions of dollars. If you've ever been on the other side of the pipeline, as an advertiser or a web site owner, you know you're treated as a statistic. Businesses suddenly disappear when Google delists them on either end. That's most visible on Youtube, where random Youtubers find themselves demonatized with no apparent rhyme, reason, or appeal, but it happens all over the Googleyweb. If it's one of a dozen places you advertise, that's fine. If you're trying to run a business where it's a core platform, you quickly run into the limits there.
ShabbyDoo 6y ago
So, the user graph will be bifurcated, with US users isolated from those in the rest of the world? If so, I don't see how the US-only TikTok remains popular for much longer.
- xvector 6y ago
  Not really, where does the implication of a bifurcated graph come into play? Plenty of companies store their users’ data in the US, but user profiles and content made public is visible from anywhere in the world.
paxys 6y ago
The only losers are software developers at TikTok who now have to migrate to Oracle's database.
- tluyben2 6y ago
  Oracle cloud is not Oracle db only. What is tiktok running on now? Do not forget Oracle owns mysql as well...

by rladd 6y ago

freedomben 6y ago

Reasonable guess, although I think it would be impossible to guarantee that no data is going back to China.

rladd 6y ago
Oracle can audit the app code and also probably sandbox the back end in such a way that they can be fairly sure things aren't escaping, at least not on a large scale.

AznHisoka 6y ago

What about the CDN that TikTok uses in Fastly? Will it be replaced by Oracle?

ETHisso2017 6y ago
spotted the daytrader lmao
tick_tock_tick 6y ago
Almost certainly why would they use a third party for stuff they offer themselves?

redwood 6y ago

Impressive speculation: your theory is the most compelling in seeing here

takeda 6y ago
And looks like that's what happened? So both Oracle and Walmart only own the 20% of that new company?

Fej 6y ago

This is a fantastic idea - the only thing missing (that I see) is that Oracle would need to see the source code and verify that the checksum of the apps built from that code matches the downloads from the Google Play Store and App Store. Otherwise the guarantee that no data is being sent to China is not airtight. Oracle could audit the app every time it gets an update and watch network traffic, but this would miss anything sent by code activated remotely after the fact. It wouldn't work for long, but the US government will look for any reason to deny this deal. I don't think Oracle will audit the app constantly anyway. Come to think of it, that could apply to the source code too, if the malicious code was extremely well hidden.

rladd 6y ago
Right, they will audit the source code but have no IP rights to it, is my guess. Also they will probably take over responsibility for the Play and App Store accounts and be responsible for pushing the new versions (after audit).
PeterStuer 6y ago
How would they shuttle out that much traffic undetected?
- dcolkitt 6y ago
  It is a video app. Couldn't you embed the embargoed data into the media content using steganography. All the receiver of the data would need to do is download a modified version of the client, then collect the data. From the server side it would just look like a normal TikTok app watching videos.

shreyshrey 6y ago

Yes. I think you are right. ByteDance is not selling Tiktok outright. They will be using oracle cloud infrastructure. But not sure if that will be enough for the current administration. It feels like tiktok is playing smart.

mike_d 6y ago

If it was that simple, Google would have been the obvious choice. They have already started migrating to GCP and signed an $800 million dollar three year deal. https://www.theinformation.com/articles/tiktok-agreed-to-buy-more-than-800-million-in-cloud-services-from-google https://www.theinformation.com/articles/tiktok-agreed-to-buy...

wegs 6y ago
Only Google doesn't really do B2B. They're B2C. Oracle does B2B.
- Bombthecat 6y ago
  Uhhh what?
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  They've been doing AdWords since 2000 and AdSense since 2003. Those are B2B and have made them many hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue.
  - wegs 6y ago
    Yes. It's made THEM billions of dollars. If you've ever been on the other side of the pipeline, as an advertiser or a web site owner, you know you're treated as a statistic. Businesses suddenly disappear when Google delists them on either end. That's most visible on Youtube, where random Youtubers find themselves demonatized with no apparent rhyme, reason, or appeal, but it happens all over the Googleyweb. If it's one of a dozen places you advertise, that's fine. If you're trying to run a business where it's a core platform, you quickly run into the limits there.

ShabbyDoo 6y ago

So, the user graph will be bifurcated, with US users isolated from those in the rest of the world? If so, I don't see how the US-only TikTok remains popular for much longer.

xvector 6y ago
Not really, where does the implication of a bifurcated graph come into play? Plenty of companies store their users’ data in the US, but user profiles and content made public is visible from anywhere in the world.

paxys 6y ago

The only losers are software developers at TikTok who now have to migrate to Oracle's database.

tluyben2 6y ago
Oracle cloud is not Oracle db only. What is tiktok running on now? Do not forget Oracle owns mysql as well...