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I would love OpenPOWER to succeed. I just don't see the 48 pin QFP version that costs < $1 and powers billions of gizmos. For me the ARM ecosystem's biggest win
by ChuckMcM 6y ago
I would love OpenPOWER to succeed. I just don't see the 48 pin QFP version that costs < $1 and powers billions of gizmos. For me the ARM ecosystem's biggest win is that it scales from really small (M0/M0+) to really usefully big (A78) and has many points between those two architectures.
I don't see OpenPOWER going there, but I can easily see RISC-V going there. So, for the moment, that is the horse I'm betting on.
- dragontamer 6y agoNot quite 48-pin QFP chips, but 257-pin embedded is still smaller than Rasp. Pi. (Just searched what NXP's newest Power-chip is, and its a S32R274: 2MB 257-pin BGA. Definitely "embedded" size, but not as small as Cortex-M0) To be honest, I don't think that NVidia/ARM will screw over their Cortex-M0 or Cortex-M0+ customers over. I'm more worried about the higher-end, whether or not NVidia will "play nice" with its bigger rivals (Apple, Intel, AMD) in the datacenter.
- exikyut 6y agoThe FS32R274VCK2VMM appears to be the cheapest in this series; Digi-Key have it for $30, NXP has it for "$13 @ 10K". This is for a 200MHz part. https://www.nxp.com/part/FS32R274VCK2VMM https://www.nxp.com/part/FS32R274VCK2VMM https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/FS32R274VCK2VMM/FS32R274VCK2VMM-ND/7645581 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/FS32R2... The two related devkits list for $529 and $4,123: https://www.digikey.com/products/en/development-boards-kits-programmers/evaluation-boards-embedded-mcu-dsp/786?k=S32R274 https://www.digikey.com/products/en/development-boards-kits-... -- Those processors make quite a few reference to an "e200", which I think is the CPU architecture. I discovered that Digi-Key lists quite a few variants of this under Core Processor; and checking the datasheets of some random results suggests that they are indeed Power architecture parts. https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-microcontrollers/685?FV=-8%7C685%2C506%7C342439%2C506%7C342440%2C506%7C342441%2C506%7C342442%2C506%7C342443%2C506%7C342444%2C506%7C342445%2C506%7C342446%2C506%7C342447%2C506%7C342448%2C506%7C342449%2C506%7C342450%2C506%7C342451%2C506%7C342452%2C506%7C342453%2C506%7C342454%2C506%7C342455%2C506%7C342472%2C506%7C431926%2C506%7C431928&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&pageSize=25 https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/... The cheapest option appears to be the $2.67@1000, up-to-48MHz SPC560D40L1B3E0X with 256KB ECC RAM. Selecting everything >100MHz finds the $7.10@1000 SPC560D40L1B3E0X, an up-to-120MHz part that adds 1MB flash (128KB ECC RAM). Restricting to >=200MHz finds the $13.32@500 SPC5742PK1AMLQ9R has which has dual cores at 200MHz, 384KB ECC RAM and 2.5MB flash, and notes core lock-step. -- After discovering the purpose of the "view prices at" field, the landscape changes somewhat. https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-microcontrollers/685?FV=143%7C100399%2C143%7C105872%2C143%7C114552%2C143%7C114561%2C143%7C140510%2C143%7C147811%2C143%7C153451%2C143%7C160669%2C143%7C182367%2C143%7C213330%2C143%7C77976%2C143%7C79202%2C143%7C84100%2C143%7C85683%2C143%7C90674%2C143%7C94618%2C143%7C95635%2C506%7C342439%2C506%7C342440%2C506%7C342441%2C506%7C342442%2C506%7C342443%2C506%7C342444%2C506%7C342445%2C506%7C342446%2C506%7C342447%2C506%7C342448%2C506%7C342449%2C506%7C342450%2C506%7C342451%2C506%7C342452%2C506%7C342453%2C506%7C342454%2C506%7C342455%2C506%7C342472%2C506%7C431926%2C506%7C431928%2C-8%7C685&quantity=1&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&pageSize=25 https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/... The SPC574S64E3CEFAR (https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/spc574s64e3.pdf https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/spc574s64e3.pdf) is 140MHz, has 1.5MB code + 64KB data flash and 96KB+32KB data RAM, and is available for $14.61 per 1ea. The SPC5744PFK1AMLQ9 (https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MPC5744P.pdf https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MPC5744P.pdf) is $20.55@1, 200MHz, 2.5MB ECC flash, 384KB ECC RAM, and has two cores that support lockstep. The MPC5125YVN400 (https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/product-brief/MPC5125PB.pdf https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/product-brief/MPC5125PB.pdf) is $29.72@1, 400MHz, supports DDR2@200MHz (only has 32KB onboard (S)RAM), and supports external flash. (I wonder if you could boot Linux on this thing?)
- rvense 6y agoThese are all basically ten-year-old parts, aren't they?
- dragontamer 6y agoThey're all low end embedded parts with highly integrated peripherals. Basically: a microcontroller. No different than say, Cortex-M0 or M0+ in many regards (although ARM scales down to lower spec'd pieces).
- ChuckMcM 6y agoYes but hey, the core ARM ISA is like 40 years old. The key is that they are in fact "low cost SoCs" which is not something I knew existed :-). Its really too bad the dev boards are so expensive but I get you need a lot of layers to route that sort of BGA.
- rvense 6y agoSure, the ARM ISA is old, but a few things have happened in microarchitecture since then. I wouldn't be rushing to use a 10-year-old ARM over a newer one. The Cortex cores are pretty great compared to ARM9 or whatever.
- dragontamer 6y agoThe ARM Cortex-M3 was released in 2006 and is still a popular microcontroller core. Microcontrollers have a multi-decade long lifespan. (I'm still seeing new 8051-based designs...) There are still new chips using the Cortex-M3 today. Microcontroller devs do NOT want to be changing their code that often. New chips move the core to lower-and-cheaper process nodes (and lower the power consumption), while otherwise retaining the same overall specifications and compatibility.
- na85 6y agoI miss DIP chips that would fit on breadboards. I don't have steady enough hands to solder QFP onto a PCB, and I'm too cheap to buy an oven :(
- Ecco 6y agoYou’re supposed to drag-solder those. Look it up on YouTube, it’s super easy. The hardest part is positioning the chip, but it’s actually easier than with an oven, because you can rework it if you only solder one or two pins :)
- na85 6y agoWow, just looked up a video and some guy did an 0.5mm pitch chip pretty darn quickly. Thank you!
- Ecco 6y agoYou’re welcome! Also, flux. Lots of it. Buy some good one, and use tons of it. Then clean the hell out of your PCB!
- IshKebab 6y agoThere's an even easier way than drag soldering - just solder it normally, without worrying about bridges. You can put tons of solder on it. The use some desoldering braid to soak up the excess solder. It will remove all the bridges and leave perfect joints.
- ChuckMcM 6y agohttps://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/smt-breakout-pcb-for-48-qfn-or-48-tqfp/57383 https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/smt-breakout-pc... can help. I have hand soldered STM32s to this adapter (use flux, a small tip)
- foldr 6y agoA cheap toaster oven or hot air tool works fine for these. Or, as others have said, a regular soldering iron with lots of flux.
- awill 6y agothe war is over. Arm has won. That dominance will take a long time to fade. AWS and Apple's future is Arm.