4 ms·

Open source it! Not happening, I know, but wouldn't that be sweet?

mturmon 16y ago
Doing so would be in violation of ITAR among other laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_708 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_708
- Joakal 16y ago
  Leading humanity to the stars has been limited in the name of national interest.
- jrockway 16y ago
  I don't see the big deal about the link. Some private company's technology was stolen by the Chinese after that company blew up a bunch of Chinese citizens? If the technology was any good, the rocket would have gone up :)
  - mturmon 16y ago
    Har, har. You're right, the link does not tell the whole story -- it's hard to summarize the situation easily. See my comment to the similar question below.
- caf 16y ago
  The designs for the Space Shuttle were publically available - the Russians started from them when building the Buran.
  - wooster 16y ago
    The CIA claims the Soviets were working from a rejected Shuttle design provided as part of an engineering misinformation campaign: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/96unclass/farewell.htm https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intellig...
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  Are you sure? The space shuttle has classified secret communications tech on board? According to your link Intelsat 708 had classified systems. I find it highly unlikely that the space shuttle has militarily sensitive secrets unless you're suggesting that the shuttle program itself was militarised?
  - mturmon 16y ago
    The level of scrutiny to get an approval to release any meaningful part of the Shuttle flight software would be almost insuperable. "Open-sourcing it" is utterly out of the question. However, this is not because there is secret communications tech on board. It's because any "space-based technology" is covered by ITAR, and the US government has signaled (in the case I referenced, and others) that the gloves are off. It's not just fining the companies concerned, it's filing criminal charges against the involved individuals. This has been true for some years now, and the crystallizing event was the Intelsat incident above, which caused a multifaceted furor that resists summarization. A case in point. I worked on a project to analyze ISS (space station) engineering data. We needed to look at the currents flowing through a motor on ISS that controls orientation of the solar panels. For publications released in the open literature, we were not allowed to label the axes on any of these motor currents. We were not allowed to have foreign nationals (such as, say, a Canadian grad student) working on the project. The point being, any information about space-based systems is covered by ITAR, and the standard of scrutiny is very high.
    - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
      I hesitate to say this but that sounds moronic. What, in your opinion, are they trying to achieve with this sort of "scrutiny"? Are they trying to stop Iran from developing a range of super-shuttles with lasers? Presumably they're now going to pension off all NASA staff to avoid them sharing such expertise (like which way round to wire a motor) with outsiders?
      - mturmon 16y ago
        I suppose they're trying to limit Chinese technological competition, and to delay Iran's getting long-range missiles (to choose two examples). Legal solutions like ITAR are always coarse-grained, and the whole thing ends up looking silly because parts of it are silly.

Doing so would be in violation of ITAR among other laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_708 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_708

Joakal 16y ago
Leading humanity to the stars has been limited in the name of national interest.
jrockway 16y ago
I don't see the big deal about the link. Some private company's technology was stolen by the Chinese after that company blew up a bunch of Chinese citizens? If the technology was any good, the rocket would have gone up :)
- mturmon 16y ago
  Har, har. You're right, the link does not tell the whole story -- it's hard to summarize the situation easily. See my comment to the similar question below.
caf 16y ago
The designs for the Space Shuttle were publically available - the Russians started from them when building the Buran.
- wooster 16y ago
  The CIA claims the Soviets were working from a rejected Shuttle design provided as part of an engineering misinformation campaign: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/96unclass/farewell.htm https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intellig...
pbhjpbhj 16y ago
Are you sure? The space shuttle has classified secret communications tech on board? According to your link Intelsat 708 had classified systems. I find it highly unlikely that the space shuttle has militarily sensitive secrets unless you're suggesting that the shuttle program itself was militarised?
- mturmon 16y ago
  The level of scrutiny to get an approval to release any meaningful part of the Shuttle flight software would be almost insuperable. "Open-sourcing it" is utterly out of the question. However, this is not because there is secret communications tech on board. It's because any "space-based technology" is covered by ITAR, and the US government has signaled (in the case I referenced, and others) that the gloves are off. It's not just fining the companies concerned, it's filing criminal charges against the involved individuals. This has been true for some years now, and the crystallizing event was the Intelsat incident above, which caused a multifaceted furor that resists summarization. A case in point. I worked on a project to analyze ISS (space station) engineering data. We needed to look at the currents flowing through a motor on ISS that controls orientation of the solar panels. For publications released in the open literature, we were not allowed to label the axes on any of these motor currents. We were not allowed to have foreign nationals (such as, say, a Canadian grad student) working on the project. The point being, any information about space-based systems is covered by ITAR, and the standard of scrutiny is very high.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    I hesitate to say this but that sounds moronic. What, in your opinion, are they trying to achieve with this sort of "scrutiny"? Are they trying to stop Iran from developing a range of super-shuttles with lasers? Presumably they're now going to pension off all NASA staff to avoid them sharing such expertise (like which way round to wire a motor) with outsiders?
    - mturmon 16y ago
      I suppose they're trying to limit Chinese technological competition, and to delay Iran's getting long-range missiles (to choose two examples). Legal solutions like ITAR are always coarse-grained, and the whole thing ends up looking silly because parts of it are silly.