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Watch “The Social Dilemma” on Netflix, see how far off the rails the industry has gone, then come back and tell me that Apple is the bad guy here. Someone needs

by orev 6y ago

Watch “The Social Dilemma” on Netflix, see how far off the rails the industry has gone, then come back and tell me that Apple is the bad guy here. Someone needs to start standing up for what’s right, and Apple is probably the only one with the size and cash reserves to be able to do it. For all the free market cheerleaders, remember this: we already have laws in place preventing or regulating businesses from engaging in certain activities, like exploitation, gambling, addictive drugs, etc. And these companies fighting Apple want to do exactly that: Epic wants to sell digital gambling (loot) boxes to children. Facebook and Instagram want to track everything you do every second of the day, for the dubious goal of making advertising “more relevant to you” (and just happens to have the small side effect of being a tool currently in use to topple democracies around the world). Social networks are hooking into addiction centers of the brain to keep people hooked on misinformation that is actually killing people. Is Apple perfect? No. Is this one thing going to stop all that I mentioned? No. But you have to start somewhere.

frosted-flakes 6y ago
You can support a company for some of its actions while also condemning it for others. It's totally legitimate to be on Epic's side in the Apple vs Epic lawsuit while also supporting Apple's privacy measures.
- nogabebop23 6y ago
  I agree with this belief, as well as not letting perfect be the enemy of better, as in this case: I can choose Apple over FB while still not liking Apple. The problem is it's really hard to hold these apparently contradictory positions in your head at the same time. We love binary distinctions on single dimension axes because our brains are more efficiently with this paradigm. In truth the world at any degree of scale does not work this way and we've got to do a better job developing more nuanced personal positions.
- samzer 6y ago
  Yep. Totally agree. I appreciate apple's attempt in the privacy space as well as loathe their 30% mandatory in app purchase integration which EPIC is fighting against. You need someone who is big like Epic to stand against apple as they the resource to battle it out legally. One of my clients is a small player and they have stripe integration for their service. The android platform uses the stripe integration where as the apple platform has forced in app purchases down their throat. In app purchases should be an option and it should be upto the customer if they want to use it or not.
shrewduser 6y ago
Apple cares about their bottom line, they're privacy focused only because it works for their business model. If they stopped being anti right to repair then maybe i'd be interested.
- vpears87 6y ago
  That's it right there, business models which align with (or are constrained by) society's values.
- nogabebop23 6y ago
  isn't this how we'll get privacy the easy way(tm) though, by making it a valid business model?
  - kcolford 6y ago
    What do you lose by doing this though? I think a monopoly is just as dangerous as unregulated/unrestrained capitalism. I don't think taking the easy way is the right way.
api 6y ago
So much this. I hate that closed app stores are currently the best way to achieve it, but Apple is fighting malware for its users plain and simple... at least when it comes to the socials. The loot boxes issue is new to me though. Citation?
beaner 6y ago
You've clearly never played Fortnite. Epic doesn't sell loot boxes, they sell skins. You get exactly what you pay for, there is nothing sketchy about it.
- agrippanux 6y ago
  While I agree it’s not sketchy in that you get what you pay for, the true cost of what you are paying is obfuscated casino-style from their player base, which is mostly kids. Case in point, my son will want to spend 2500 vbucks on a skin until I put that into real dollars for him - “are you sure, that’s $25 of your money” (a bit less with package bonuses notwithstanding). Perhaps this is my penance for working on FarmVille and Zynga Poker back in the day.
  - cma 6y ago
    I don't understand how Apple protects by taking a large cut of same?
    - beaner 6y ago
      You're getting down voted, but you're right. Apple filters heavily, they know everything in the apps they allow or disallow. Anything that is allowed and that they profit from, they are complicit in.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    Certainly looks like karma.
  - k12sosse 6y ago
    Worked at Zynga? Damn dog, you don't deserve any time at the mic regarding MTX.
parsimoniousplb 6y ago
There are no democracies being "toppled" via instagram, there are only some liberal parties being voted out of office as their policies have been massive failures, which is democracy working as intended.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  Their policies are only failures if you’re looking through the eyes of a conservative. The left sees the world differently than the right, and, as such, focus on different issues. To the left, Trump has been an absolute failure, but the right adores him. Who’s right? The right hates Gavin Newsom; They’re on their third recall attempt. But he wasn’t elected for no reason; He was elected because his campaign promises were what the people who put him there wanted. That’s democracy working as intended as well.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - burlesona 6y ago
    It’s not that simple. Newsom has accomplished little of his agenda and it’s not because of “the right,” which hardly exists in California. The Democrats in California torpedoed the latest housing bill, which merely attempted to legalize duplexes statewide, evoking the apocalyptic destruction of single family neighborhoods as it’s result. The world is also not as simple as “left” and “right,” and I’ve found that it’s unwise to tell someone else what it’s like from their POV. We should instead speak for ourselves, and be genuinely interested and curious why others think the way they do.
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      > [...] “the right,” which hardly exists in California. “The right” make up about a third of the state[0] if the 2018 gubernatorial election is anything to go by. I wouldn’t call that “hardly exist[ing].” They may not be powerful enough to vote in who they want, but they’re there. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_gubernatorial_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_gubernatorial_...
stonith 6y ago
> Epic wants to sell digital gambling (loot) boxes to children Fortnite hasn't had loot boxes like this for about 18 months. The contents of the box are visible and change each day. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/fortnite-puts-an-end-to-random-loot-boxes-purchases/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/fortnite-puts-an-end-...
- falcolas 6y ago
  Which is still gambling, just on the contents of the next box. It’s obfuscating the gambling, and it’s unfortunately working.
  - sorenjan 6y ago
    Either way, Apple takes 30% of the revenue. Apple isn't standing up to Epic's gambling, they''re profiting a lot from it and their only issue with Epic seems to be that they want to keep profiting from it. The Epic and Apple case started when Epic circumvented Apple for in app purchases and lowered their prices accordingly.
    - falcolas 6y ago
      They don’t get a commission for the sale of the Fortnight software, or for marketing Fortnight on their own dime; do you believe that they don’t deserve to get any commissions for providing Fortnight a platform and publicity?
      - nogabebop23 6y ago
        I guess this is the crux: are they providing a platform and marketing, or are the gate-keeping rent seekers between the developer and their customers?
        falcolas 6y ago
        Honestly, both positions are arguable. But, and it's a big but, the fact that it is their hardware and their OS points to the former (their platform, their marketing). Ultimately, it's their storefront, so who they do business with - and the terms of that business - is their choice (as is so often argued when free speech and platforms comes up here on HN). Competition exists, in the form of other hardware and other OSes (though, Epic's Fortnight was kicked off Google's store for the same reason as it was kicked off Apple's).
veeti 6y ago
Apple cares so much they will take 30% of those loot box profits.
- falcolas 6y ago
  Except they kicked fortnight off the store, so they are now getting 0%. And since Fortnight is free to buy, Apple would also get $0 if forced to allow non-IAP purchases.
  - projectdelphai 6y ago
    Weren't they already getting 0% since Epic snuck IAP outside of Apple's system into their app to bypass Apple's requirements? So Apple had no choice but to ban them. You're implying that by not kicking fortnight off the store, they'd still be getting 30%
- CalChris 6y ago
  'would' not 'will'. Since they banned the loot box, Apple cares so much they actually 'are' giving up that 30%.
  - UnpossibleJim 6y ago
    Loot boxes became illegal, as they were determined to be a form of online gambling. It wasn't a stance that Apple took to protect their customer, it was a federally mandated action handed down from the courts.
ctvo 6y ago
Apple is a giant corporation with varied interests. In some areas they align with consumers (they’re not heavily in advertising... yet) while in others their anti-competitive behavior is harmful. Writing these impassioned posts like you’re defending the decisions of your favorite sports team that can do no wrong... oof.
- CalChris 6y ago
  When Apple rejects Epic from its App Store for violating its TOC, is that being 'anti-competitive' ?
  - floatboth 6y ago
    The anti-competitiveness is even before that: when Apple decided not to allow sideloading. Remember when Microsoft was sued for bundling IE with Windows? Now imagine if they blocked other browsers from existing on Windows back then.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      And in the US, that lawsuit went nowhere and they never stopped bundling IE. MS was sued for a number of things including forcing OEMs to pay a license fee for each PC sold whether or not it was shipped with Windows and not allowing third parties to ship alternative browsers.
      - CalChris 6y ago
        Yes, not allowing third parties to ship alternative browsers, that was anti-competitive behavior because MS was in the browser business. Now if Apple had a loot box in their game and wouldn't allow Epic to have a loot box in Epic's game, that too would be anti-competitive. But not allowing anyone to have a loot box at all, isn't.
      - oarsinsync 6y ago
        > And in the US, that lawsuit went nowhere and they never stopped bundling IE Your specificity of “in the US” suggests you know that’s not how it went down in the rest of the world, and that they did infact have to stop bundling IE (and other components) in other countries / regional blocs.
marcrosoft 6y ago
There’s nothing wrong with the free market. They just unfortunately don’t give a crap about privacy.
asimov42 6y ago
So what about all the other gaming apps on the iOS store? Literally thousands of them are specifically designed to get (trick) kids to spend money on them. Apple is more than happy to enable In-App purchases for them and then promotes them heavily through its own advertising on the app store. How is Apple not part of the problem in this whole system?
- ianai 6y ago
  It’s got to start somewhere. Punch the biggest bullies in the yard down and everyone of their comrades will get the point and generally fall in line. Or you’ve got smaller fries to then make examples of on your own time. If you start at the bottom and work your way up the bigger players will just benefit from lack of competition and not see a need for change. The whataboutism is really an argument against change at all than it is a question of tactics.
- benologist 6y ago
  Apple and Facebook have both been sued for this. Facebook were literally calling it friendly fraud and trying not to prevent it. https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2019/01/25/facebook-turned-a-blind-eye-to-friendly-fraud-as-kids-racked-up-thousands-on-games/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2019/01/25/facebook-tu... The FTC alleges Apple allowed the same thing on their platform for three years after they became aware. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/16/technology/government-and-apple-settle-childrens-app-purchase-inquiry.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/16/technology/government-and... But what's really amazing is Google, Amazon and Microsoft have all been sued for the same thing too and it still not illegal to have games where kids can spend unlimited amounts and conduct unlimited transactions using obfuscated virtual currencies.
- tatersolid 6y ago
  Apple has parental controls to prevent this, and basically forces you through configuring them when you set up an iDevice account for a minor. I have three kids and have never had an in-app or other purchase that I didn’t approve.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
vsareto 6y ago
>Watch “The Social Dilemma” on Netflix I'm sorry, but that show was really, really dumb and unrealistic and I couldn't sit through it. 3 engineers (notably: cringey white dudes) are never following one single user and controlling his interactions like that and it did more harm than good by pretending it works that way. This implies someone is directly accountable, showing up to work every day and fucking with people's attention regularly, when in reality, it's soulless machines programmed to do this while the engineers are several degrees away from inflicting harm like this. That's what makes it so dangerous -- not that tech companies have unlimited money to build situation rooms dedicated to following single users around.
- bobobob420 6y ago
  Why bring up the skin color of the people in the show? What relevance does it have? And I am brown Incase you were wondering as I know skin color is important to you
  - spicyramen 6y ago
    +1 to it, SV culture is racist now against white people. Stop looking at color we are all the same inside if cut open
    - bad_user 6y ago
      Saying that there's racism against whites, especially in SV, is shortsighted at best, malicious at worst. No, you're not discriminated as a white dude in STEM. You're in fact the most privileged of the privileged. Stfu. - another white dude in STEM
      - oarsinsync 6y ago
        It’s difficult for someone who has taken a 20% loss to not feel aggrieved by another who’s taken a 100% gain. Even if the person taking the loss started at 100 and ended up at 80, while the person making the gain started at 20 and ended up at 40. You’re still going to feel persecuted at 80 because of the relative loss. The human mind is super resilient and adaptable. That can be less helpful when it’s adapting to good things, making it the new baseline normal. One thing I think most people can agree on: relative to recent history, 2020 has been a pretty bad year.
gameswithgo 6y ago
apple is perfectly happy for epic to sell loot boxes as long as they get a cut
kexx 6y ago
Calling apple to be a social justice warrior is the most ironic thing I heard for a while. We are speaking about the company who actively encourages developers to go to subscription model no matter what the app does, the company, which does everything in order to make businesses unable to fix their devices, so stop their give competition for their outrageous repair prices and methods, the one who do everything to monopolize cash transfer for their sweet 30% cut for literally everything, the one who is using exactly the some components for a new model of a laptop, while they already have internal documentation about said component to be often failing in a short time. So LOL

by orev 6y ago

frosted-flakes 6y ago

You can support a company for some of its actions while also condemning it for others. It's totally legitimate to be on Epic's side in the Apple vs Epic lawsuit while also supporting Apple's privacy measures.

nogabebop23 6y ago
I agree with this belief, as well as not letting perfect be the enemy of better, as in this case: I can choose Apple over FB while still not liking Apple. The problem is it's really hard to hold these apparently contradictory positions in your head at the same time. We love binary distinctions on single dimension axes because our brains are more efficiently with this paradigm. In truth the world at any degree of scale does not work this way and we've got to do a better job developing more nuanced personal positions.
samzer 6y ago
Yep. Totally agree. I appreciate apple's attempt in the privacy space as well as loathe their 30% mandatory in app purchase integration which EPIC is fighting against. You need someone who is big like Epic to stand against apple as they the resource to battle it out legally. One of my clients is a small player and they have stripe integration for their service. The android platform uses the stripe integration where as the apple platform has forced in app purchases down their throat. In app purchases should be an option and it should be upto the customer if they want to use it or not.

shrewduser 6y ago

Apple cares about their bottom line, they're privacy focused only because it works for their business model. If they stopped being anti right to repair then maybe i'd be interested.

vpears87 6y ago
That's it right there, business models which align with (or are constrained by) society's values.
nogabebop23 6y ago
isn't this how we'll get privacy the easy way(tm) though, by making it a valid business model?
- kcolford 6y ago
  What do you lose by doing this though? I think a monopoly is just as dangerous as unregulated/unrestrained capitalism. I don't think taking the easy way is the right way.

api 6y ago

So much this. I hate that closed app stores are currently the best way to achieve it, but Apple is fighting malware for its users plain and simple... at least when it comes to the socials. The loot boxes issue is new to me though. Citation?

beaner 6y ago

You've clearly never played Fortnite. Epic doesn't sell loot boxes, they sell skins. You get exactly what you pay for, there is nothing sketchy about it.

agrippanux 6y ago
While I agree it’s not sketchy in that you get what you pay for, the true cost of what you are paying is obfuscated casino-style from their player base, which is mostly kids. Case in point, my son will want to spend 2500 vbucks on a skin until I put that into real dollars for him - “are you sure, that’s $25 of your money” (a bit less with package bonuses notwithstanding). Perhaps this is my penance for working on FarmVille and Zynga Poker back in the day.
- cma 6y ago
  I don't understand how Apple protects by taking a large cut of same?
  - beaner 6y ago
    You're getting down voted, but you're right. Apple filters heavily, they know everything in the apps they allow or disallow. Anything that is allowed and that they profit from, they are complicit in.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Certainly looks like karma.
- k12sosse 6y ago
  Worked at Zynga? Damn dog, you don't deserve any time at the mic regarding MTX.

parsimoniousplb 6y ago

There are no democracies being "toppled" via instagram, there are only some liberal parties being voted out of office as their policies have been massive failures, which is democracy working as intended.

colejohnson66 6y ago
Their policies are only failures if you’re looking through the eyes of a conservative. The left sees the world differently than the right, and, as such, focus on different issues. To the left, Trump has been an absolute failure, but the right adores him. Who’s right? The right hates Gavin Newsom; They’re on their third recall attempt. But he wasn’t elected for no reason; He was elected because his campaign promises were what the people who put him there wanted. That’s democracy working as intended as well.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- burlesona 6y ago
  It’s not that simple. Newsom has accomplished little of his agenda and it’s not because of “the right,” which hardly exists in California. The Democrats in California torpedoed the latest housing bill, which merely attempted to legalize duplexes statewide, evoking the apocalyptic destruction of single family neighborhoods as it’s result. The world is also not as simple as “left” and “right,” and I’ve found that it’s unwise to tell someone else what it’s like from their POV. We should instead speak for ourselves, and be genuinely interested and curious why others think the way they do.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    > [...] “the right,” which hardly exists in California. “The right” make up about a third of the state[0] if the 2018 gubernatorial election is anything to go by. I wouldn’t call that “hardly exist[ing].” They may not be powerful enough to vote in who they want, but they’re there. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_gubernatorial_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_gubernatorial_...

stonith 6y ago

> Epic wants to sell digital gambling (loot) boxes to children Fortnite hasn't had loot boxes like this for about 18 months. The contents of the box are visible and change each day. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/fortnite-puts-an-end-to-random-loot-boxes-purchases/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/fortnite-puts-an-end-...

falcolas 6y ago
Which is still gambling, just on the contents of the next box. It’s obfuscating the gambling, and it’s unfortunately working.
- sorenjan 6y ago
  Either way, Apple takes 30% of the revenue. Apple isn't standing up to Epic's gambling, they''re profiting a lot from it and their only issue with Epic seems to be that they want to keep profiting from it. The Epic and Apple case started when Epic circumvented Apple for in app purchases and lowered their prices accordingly.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    They don’t get a commission for the sale of the Fortnight software, or for marketing Fortnight on their own dime; do you believe that they don’t deserve to get any commissions for providing Fortnight a platform and publicity?
    - nogabebop23 6y ago
      I guess this is the crux: are they providing a platform and marketing, or are the gate-keeping rent seekers between the developer and their customers?
      - falcolas 6y ago
        Honestly, both positions are arguable. But, and it's a big but, the fact that it is their hardware and their OS points to the former (their platform, their marketing). Ultimately, it's their storefront, so who they do business with - and the terms of that business - is their choice (as is so often argued when free speech and platforms comes up here on HN). Competition exists, in the form of other hardware and other OSes (though, Epic's Fortnight was kicked off Google's store for the same reason as it was kicked off Apple's).

veeti 6y ago

Apple cares so much they will take 30% of those loot box profits.

falcolas 6y ago
Except they kicked fortnight off the store, so they are now getting 0%. And since Fortnight is free to buy, Apple would also get $0 if forced to allow non-IAP purchases.
- projectdelphai 6y ago
  Weren't they already getting 0% since Epic snuck IAP outside of Apple's system into their app to bypass Apple's requirements? So Apple had no choice but to ban them. You're implying that by not kicking fortnight off the store, they'd still be getting 30%
CalChris 6y ago
'would' not 'will'. Since they banned the loot box, Apple cares so much they actually 'are' giving up that 30%.
- UnpossibleJim 6y ago
  Loot boxes became illegal, as they were determined to be a form of online gambling. It wasn't a stance that Apple took to protect their customer, it was a federally mandated action handed down from the courts.

ctvo 6y ago

Apple is a giant corporation with varied interests. In some areas they align with consumers (they’re not heavily in advertising... yet) while in others their anti-competitive behavior is harmful. Writing these impassioned posts like you’re defending the decisions of your favorite sports team that can do no wrong... oof.

CalChris 6y ago
When Apple rejects Epic from its App Store for violating its TOC, is that being 'anti-competitive' ?
- floatboth 6y ago
  The anti-competitiveness is even before that: when Apple decided not to allow sideloading. Remember when Microsoft was sued for bundling IE with Windows? Now imagine if they blocked other browsers from existing on Windows back then.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    And in the US, that lawsuit went nowhere and they never stopped bundling IE. MS was sued for a number of things including forcing OEMs to pay a license fee for each PC sold whether or not it was shipped with Windows and not allowing third parties to ship alternative browsers.
    - CalChris 6y ago
      Yes, not allowing third parties to ship alternative browsers, that was anti-competitive behavior because MS was in the browser business. Now if Apple had a loot box in their game and wouldn't allow Epic to have a loot box in Epic's game, that too would be anti-competitive. But not allowing anyone to have a loot box at all, isn't.
    - oarsinsync 6y ago
      > And in the US, that lawsuit went nowhere and they never stopped bundling IE Your specificity of “in the US” suggests you know that’s not how it went down in the rest of the world, and that they did infact have to stop bundling IE (and other components) in other countries / regional blocs.

marcrosoft 6y ago

There’s nothing wrong with the free market. They just unfortunately don’t give a crap about privacy.

asimov42 6y ago

So what about all the other gaming apps on the iOS store? Literally thousands of them are specifically designed to get (trick) kids to spend money on them. Apple is more than happy to enable In-App purchases for them and then promotes them heavily through its own advertising on the app store. How is Apple not part of the problem in this whole system?

ianai 6y ago
It’s got to start somewhere. Punch the biggest bullies in the yard down and everyone of their comrades will get the point and generally fall in line. Or you’ve got smaller fries to then make examples of on your own time. If you start at the bottom and work your way up the bigger players will just benefit from lack of competition and not see a need for change. The whataboutism is really an argument against change at all than it is a question of tactics.
benologist 6y ago
Apple and Facebook have both been sued for this. Facebook were literally calling it friendly fraud and trying not to prevent it. https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2019/01/25/facebook-turned-a-blind-eye-to-friendly-fraud-as-kids-racked-up-thousands-on-games/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2019/01/25/facebook-tu... The FTC alleges Apple allowed the same thing on their platform for three years after they became aware. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/16/technology/government-and-apple-settle-childrens-app-purchase-inquiry.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/16/technology/government-and... But what's really amazing is Google, Amazon and Microsoft have all been sued for the same thing too and it still not illegal to have games where kids can spend unlimited amounts and conduct unlimited transactions using obfuscated virtual currencies.
tatersolid 6y ago
Apple has parental controls to prevent this, and basically forces you through configuring them when you set up an iDevice account for a minor. I have three kids and have never had an in-app or other purchase that I didn’t approve.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

vsareto 6y ago

>Watch “The Social Dilemma” on Netflix I'm sorry, but that show was really, really dumb and unrealistic and I couldn't sit through it. 3 engineers (notably: cringey white dudes) are never following one single user and controlling his interactions like that and it did more harm than good by pretending it works that way. This implies someone is directly accountable, showing up to work every day and fucking with people's attention regularly, when in reality, it's soulless machines programmed to do this while the engineers are several degrees away from inflicting harm like this. That's what makes it so dangerous -- not that tech companies have unlimited money to build situation rooms dedicated to following single users around.

bobobob420 6y ago
Why bring up the skin color of the people in the show? What relevance does it have? And I am brown Incase you were wondering as I know skin color is important to you
- spicyramen 6y ago
  +1 to it, SV culture is racist now against white people. Stop looking at color we are all the same inside if cut open
  - bad_user 6y ago
    Saying that there's racism against whites, especially in SV, is shortsighted at best, malicious at worst. No, you're not discriminated as a white dude in STEM. You're in fact the most privileged of the privileged. Stfu. - another white dude in STEM
    - oarsinsync 6y ago
      It’s difficult for someone who has taken a 20% loss to not feel aggrieved by another who’s taken a 100% gain. Even if the person taking the loss started at 100 and ended up at 80, while the person making the gain started at 20 and ended up at 40. You’re still going to feel persecuted at 80 because of the relative loss. The human mind is super resilient and adaptable. That can be less helpful when it’s adapting to good things, making it the new baseline normal. One thing I think most people can agree on: relative to recent history, 2020 has been a pretty bad year.

gameswithgo 6y ago

apple is perfectly happy for epic to sell loot boxes as long as they get a cut

kexx 6y ago

Calling apple to be a social justice warrior is the most ironic thing I heard for a while. We are speaking about the company who actively encourages developers to go to subscription model no matter what the app does, the company, which does everything in order to make businesses unable to fix their devices, so stop their give competition for their outrageous repair prices and methods, the one who do everything to monopolize cash transfer for their sweet 30% cut for literally everything, the one who is using exactly the some components for a new model of a laptop, while they already have internal documentation about said component to be often failing in a short time. So LOL