8 ms·

Epic Store successfully taking games exclusive makes Sweeneys priorities clear: they are no different than Apple's or Google's. I hope Epic fighting this fight

by brnt 6y ago

Epic Store successfully taking games exclusive makes Sweeneys priorities clear: they are no different than Apple's or Google's. I hope Epic fighting this fight will not obscure that.

fwn 6y ago
Actions can be judged independent from the actor. If Apple fought against one or many extractive ecosystems that would be a good thing even though Apple itself does profit and plans to continue to profit from their own extractive ecosystem. ...same with Epic.
dessant 6y ago
In all honesty Satan himself could have sued Apple for all we care, what's important now is that there is someone who has the resources and willingness to fight for our right to sideload apps on our own devices.
- myspy 6y ago
  Sideloading is not the goal. The goal is to establish another store front to sell games with. This is no fight to open up the device, it's a fight to gain profit.
  - pharke 6y ago
    If they set a precedent then it is likely we will get at least a few more stores if not an abundance. That's at least some improvement. There's an off chance of a complete opening up of iOS devices but I wouldn't bet on it.
  - colinmhayes 6y ago
    I don't give a shit about their goal. If they win precedent will be set to not only allow anyone to open a store, it'll be set to allow sideloading too. The outcome is undeniably good for me, that's all that matters.
- Someone 6y ago
  Devil’s advocate: you’re free to run whatever you want on the device you bought, but some of the software you licensed prohibits you from running your software on top of it. Also, actually running your software may be a challenge because the boot loader and OS are locked down, but you could have known that when you bought the device. (This is similar to “right to repair”. That isn’t about being allowed to repair your devices, but about making it easier to do so. You’re free to repair your device, but it currently often is almost impossible)
  - admax88q 6y ago
    > you’re free to run whatever you want on the device you bought, Great! > Also, actually running your software may be a challenge because the boot loader and OS are locked down, Oh, so you're not free to run what you want on your device.
  - tomohawk 6y ago
    This seems like circular reasoning.
onion2k 6y ago
I don't think Sweeney wants the same software to be available on every app store. He wants users to have a choice of which app store to use. Effectively he wants the same deal as there is for PC gaming - eg multiple stores available that users can choose from - to be the case for mobile (and possibly consoles as well).
- luastoned 6y ago
  What? He explicitly forces users to use his/the Epic store, smh.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    That’s not inconsistent. Users can choose to use the Epic store or not. If they choose not to use it, they can’t buy games from that store, just like I can’t buy Trader Joe’s food if I decide to not use the TJ’s store.
    - pharke 6y ago
      Exactly, people are having a hissy fit over exclusive content that has no further price than downloading a free store app. It's like whingeing about driving to another store to get the brand of ice cream that you like. I have no problem with that as long as the device manufacturer doesn't limit me to a single store. Preferably I'd like to be able to choose any store or independent content. More choices, more freedom, more competition.
      - falcolas 6y ago
        Having to go to the EGS for a given exclusive game is not choice. It’s not freedom. It’s definitely not competition. Even if I buy a game broadly available on multiple platforms, I’m not getting a discount on it for going to EGS, despite their lower cut.
        OCASM 6y ago
        It is in fact those three things. Different stores compete with each other providing different value, both users and devs having the freedom to choose to support one or the other (or all) based on their personal criteria.
chii 6y ago
> Epic Store successfully taking games exclusive exclusive games aren't the same as a monopoly platform. Exclusive games is a choice the creators of the game made. A monopoly platform is when that choice isn't available. If apple doesn't want your app on iOS, they can remove you with no recourse. If Epic doesn't want your game on the Epic store, you have the choice to use steam, or to go alone and distribute independently.
m12k 6y ago
I wish people weren't so quick to jump to this simplistic "who's the good guy and who's the bad guy?" mentality. It's quite possible for Epic to be a bad guy in their own right and still have a valid grievance against Apple, and it's quite possible that it would be better for a lot of smaller devs that this was changed even if Epic is doing this for their own bottom line's sake, not because they are altruistic.
- brnt 6y ago
  To be clear: I'm not painting Epic to be bad or good, just that they're as much after their bottom line as the incumbents. That produces a potentially beneficial change for the incumbent platforms, but also a potentially negative change in the same way that having another video streaming service with a proprietary library does not add value at this point.
simion314 6y ago
Valve did the same if I am not mistaken you had to install their launcher to play half Life. Now Epic is fighting back with similar tactics and as long as they offer a better deal to the developers, same or better prices for user then I am Ok with it (I did not install the Epic Launcher so far but I claimed a free game just in case)
- Lev1a 6y ago
  Valve was dev and publisher for Half-Life so their game is on their platform. Same with EA, Ubisoft etc. AND guess who? Epic. Dev and publisher for Fortnite. What do you need to install and run to be able to play Fortnite? Epic Games Launcher.
  - simion314 6y ago
    If I ware Epic I would put Fortnie in Steam but make everything 30% more expensive in Steam (hopefully Steam let's the developer present users information like X is cheaper on Epic and is not like other companies that censors information they don't like). With Fortninte on Steam the dudes that don't want to be bothered with 2 launchers can use only one(you still need Epic accounts like in all MMOs). One of the most popular games is Minecraft and it did not need to be on Steam to get popularity, so it is still possible to host downloads for your game on your servers.
mattigames 6y ago
Steam only reason to be as big as they are is because they went ages without serious competition, so anyone who wants to have the slightest shoot to succeed without such advantage must use exclusives or similar tactics or just die trying.
- DivisionSol 6y ago
  What? How about make a product that actually works? Epic Games Store is a slog to operate, with weird UX decisions across the board. People hated Ubisoft trying to cram their platform down their throats because it was a buggy mess. People are disgusted with the EGS because, likewise, it is a disaster. You don't need a Steam Workshop (a bonus, for sure,) to distribute games. You don't need the Marketplace for Game Economy stuff (a bonus, sure.) You need a way to buy and launch games quickly, which even EGS struggles at.
madeofpalk 6y ago
> Epic Store successfully taking games exclusive People keep bringing this up as a negative, but ignore a) that many games are exclusively on Steam and b) Epic gives guaranteed revenue to developers, derisking development. There is absolutely nothing wrong imho with companies wanting to make their own stores, set their own rules, with whatever exclusivity, to make money for themselves, AS LONG AS there is (fair and equal) competition in the market so if people (developers and/or customers) do not like the rules, they can go elsewhere. Competition is good!
- brnt 6y ago
  > Competition is good! On Linux, the Epic Store does not compete and therefore it does not add choice for me.
  - madeofpalk 6y ago
    EGS exclusivity doesn't limit distribution for other platforms, im not sure if this also applies for Linux as well. Being on Steam does not guarantee the game will be on Linux. It sounds like your real problem is developers not bothering about shipping their game on Linux.

by brnt 6y ago

Epic Store successfully taking games exclusive makes Sweeneys priorities clear: they are no different than Apple's or Google's. I hope Epic fighting this fight will not obscure that.

fwn 6y ago

Actions can be judged independent from the actor. If Apple fought against one or many extractive ecosystems that would be a good thing even though Apple itself does profit and plans to continue to profit from their own extractive ecosystem. ...same with Epic.

dessant 6y ago

In all honesty Satan himself could have sued Apple for all we care, what's important now is that there is someone who has the resources and willingness to fight for our right to sideload apps on our own devices.

myspy 6y ago
Sideloading is not the goal. The goal is to establish another store front to sell games with. This is no fight to open up the device, it's a fight to gain profit.
- pharke 6y ago
  If they set a precedent then it is likely we will get at least a few more stores if not an abundance. That's at least some improvement. There's an off chance of a complete opening up of iOS devices but I wouldn't bet on it.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  I don't give a shit about their goal. If they win precedent will be set to not only allow anyone to open a store, it'll be set to allow sideloading too. The outcome is undeniably good for me, that's all that matters.
Someone 6y ago
Devil’s advocate: you’re free to run whatever you want on the device you bought, but some of the software you licensed prohibits you from running your software on top of it. Also, actually running your software may be a challenge because the boot loader and OS are locked down, but you could have known that when you bought the device. (This is similar to “right to repair”. That isn’t about being allowed to repair your devices, but about making it easier to do so. You’re free to repair your device, but it currently often is almost impossible)
- admax88q 6y ago
  > you’re free to run whatever you want on the device you bought, Great! > Also, actually running your software may be a challenge because the boot loader and OS are locked down, Oh, so you're not free to run what you want on your device.
- tomohawk 6y ago
  This seems like circular reasoning.

onion2k 6y ago

I don't think Sweeney wants the same software to be available on every app store. He wants users to have a choice of which app store to use. Effectively he wants the same deal as there is for PC gaming - eg multiple stores available that users can choose from - to be the case for mobile (and possibly consoles as well).

luastoned 6y ago
What? He explicitly forces users to use his/the Epic store, smh.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  That’s not inconsistent. Users can choose to use the Epic store or not. If they choose not to use it, they can’t buy games from that store, just like I can’t buy Trader Joe’s food if I decide to not use the TJ’s store.
  - pharke 6y ago
    Exactly, people are having a hissy fit over exclusive content that has no further price than downloading a free store app. It's like whingeing about driving to another store to get the brand of ice cream that you like. I have no problem with that as long as the device manufacturer doesn't limit me to a single store. Preferably I'd like to be able to choose any store or independent content. More choices, more freedom, more competition.
    - falcolas 6y ago
      Having to go to the EGS for a given exclusive game is not choice. It’s not freedom. It’s definitely not competition. Even if I buy a game broadly available on multiple platforms, I’m not getting a discount on it for going to EGS, despite their lower cut.
      - OCASM 6y ago
        It is in fact those three things. Different stores compete with each other providing different value, both users and devs having the freedom to choose to support one or the other (or all) based on their personal criteria.

chii 6y ago

> Epic Store successfully taking games exclusive exclusive games aren't the same as a monopoly platform. Exclusive games is a choice the creators of the game made. A monopoly platform is when that choice isn't available. If apple doesn't want your app on iOS, they can remove you with no recourse. If Epic doesn't want your game on the Epic store, you have the choice to use steam, or to go alone and distribute independently.

m12k 6y ago

I wish people weren't so quick to jump to this simplistic "who's the good guy and who's the bad guy?" mentality. It's quite possible for Epic to be a bad guy in their own right and still have a valid grievance against Apple, and it's quite possible that it would be better for a lot of smaller devs that this was changed even if Epic is doing this for their own bottom line's sake, not because they are altruistic.

brnt 6y ago
To be clear: I'm not painting Epic to be bad or good, just that they're as much after their bottom line as the incumbents. That produces a potentially beneficial change for the incumbent platforms, but also a potentially negative change in the same way that having another video streaming service with a proprietary library does not add value at this point.

simion314 6y ago

Valve did the same if I am not mistaken you had to install their launcher to play half Life. Now Epic is fighting back with similar tactics and as long as they offer a better deal to the developers, same or better prices for user then I am Ok with it (I did not install the Epic Launcher so far but I claimed a free game just in case)

Lev1a 6y ago
Valve was dev and publisher for Half-Life so their game is on their platform. Same with EA, Ubisoft etc. AND guess who? Epic. Dev and publisher for Fortnite. What do you need to install and run to be able to play Fortnite? Epic Games Launcher.
- simion314 6y ago
  If I ware Epic I would put Fortnie in Steam but make everything 30% more expensive in Steam (hopefully Steam let's the developer present users information like X is cheaper on Epic and is not like other companies that censors information they don't like). With Fortninte on Steam the dudes that don't want to be bothered with 2 launchers can use only one(you still need Epic accounts like in all MMOs). One of the most popular games is Minecraft and it did not need to be on Steam to get popularity, so it is still possible to host downloads for your game on your servers.

mattigames 6y ago

Steam only reason to be as big as they are is because they went ages without serious competition, so anyone who wants to have the slightest shoot to succeed without such advantage must use exclusives or similar tactics or just die trying.

DivisionSol 6y ago
What? How about make a product that actually works? Epic Games Store is a slog to operate, with weird UX decisions across the board. People hated Ubisoft trying to cram their platform down their throats because it was a buggy mess. People are disgusted with the EGS because, likewise, it is a disaster. You don't need a Steam Workshop (a bonus, for sure,) to distribute games. You don't need the Marketplace for Game Economy stuff (a bonus, sure.) You need a way to buy and launch games quickly, which even EGS struggles at.

madeofpalk 6y ago

> Epic Store successfully taking games exclusive People keep bringing this up as a negative, but ignore a) that many games are exclusively on Steam and b) Epic gives guaranteed revenue to developers, derisking development. There is absolutely nothing wrong imho with companies wanting to make their own stores, set their own rules, with whatever exclusivity, to make money for themselves, AS LONG AS there is (fair and equal) competition in the market so if people (developers and/or customers) do not like the rules, they can go elsewhere. Competition is good!

brnt 6y ago
> Competition is good! On Linux, the Epic Store does not compete and therefore it does not add choice for me.
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  EGS exclusivity doesn't limit distribution for other platforms, im not sure if this also applies for Linux as well. Being on Steam does not guarantee the game will be on Linux. It sounds like your real problem is developers not bothering about shipping their game on Linux.