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Does anyone else > 40 years old remember there just being lots more animals around when you were a kid? I don't know if it's just age blinders or paranoia, but

Does anyone else > 40 years old remember there just being lots more animals around when you were a kid? I don't know if it's just age blinders or paranoia, but in particular I remember there being way more birds pretty much everywhere.

baron_harkonnen 6y ago
Remember fireflies? I myself almost don't believe that there were insects that would light dark fields in summer, and that children would fill jars with the these creatures because they were so plentiful you could grab a handful of glowing insects! I honestly feel that if I were to have grandchildren they would not believe me describing them or at the very least thing that I was greatly exaggerating. I know they still exist but I haven't seen a yard filled with fireflies in a long time.
- dorchadas 6y ago
  I live in a decently rural area. This summer had a lot, for some reason, but overall I can't remember seeing many in recent summers. Same with earthworms coming out after a rain
  - _whiteCaps_ 6y ago
    I'm assuming you're in North America, many earthworm species there are invasive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworms_as_invasive_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworms_as_invasive_species
- drzaiusapelord 6y ago
  I live in the middle of Chicago, in the city itself and in a very dense and urban part of it, and we had fireflies all summer. I'm guessing as an adult you're not out much during the hours they're out, or at least not in backyards and alleys where they tend to congregate. They do seem fewer to me, but who knows, I'm comparing my memories to a kid's from decades ago. I wonder if anyone keeps track of this stuff. I did notice less bumblebees this year, in fact I don't think I saw a single one, but that's my own experiences and not anything scientific of course. Miss those chonky little guys.
eppp 6y ago
It seems to be the opposite at my house, not that I can do any actual numbers. We have more deer, tons of squirrels that we never saw growing up. Turkeys that didn't even exist in the state. Flocks of geese that land in fields like never before. We live in a very rural area but not a crop farming one, mostly just cows.
misja111 6y ago
No I remember the opposite. I'm over 50 and when I was young in the 70's the water in ditches and canals was so polluted that nothing lived in it anymore but algae. In Amsterdam, where I moved to after leaving home, you had to be suicidal to be willing to take a swim in the canals. Nowadays fish are back everywhere, even in the canals in Amsterdam. There seem to be salmons swimming in the big rivers, this was unthinkable in my childhood. Species higher in the food chain such as otters are slowly returning to the Netherlands as well.
- bkandel 6y ago
  Yeah same in Philadelphia, the rivers (Delaware and Schuylkill) used to be so polluted they didn't support life, but now there are people catching 45-inch muskies in urban rivers (https://patch.com/pennsylvania/norristown/30-pound-muskie-caught-schuylkill-river-near-norristown https://patch.com/pennsylvania/norristown/30-pound-muskie-ca...). The revival of the river has been well documented (e.g. https://whyy.org/articles/the-death-of-the-delaware-river/ https://whyy.org/articles/the-death-of-the-delaware-river/).
- rapnie 6y ago
  There was indeed a big mentality change. Significantly less casual pollution (Diemerzeedijk in Amsterdam North, the open chemical dump for Europe, comes to mind), and .. lots of the polluting industry outsourced to Asia, China mostly. My personal impression is that there are way less insects than there used to be. Edit: found an old HN comment about the relationship to Agent Orange production and Diemerzeedijk: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9431741 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9431741 I was actually searching an article about exploding chemical barrels now and then landing on fishing boats sailing in the area.
- refurb 6y ago
  Same here. Everything is much cleaner than 40 years back. Less garbage everywhere, cleaner water you can actually eat the fish out of or swim in. There has been lots of progress.
- hannofcart 6y ago
  However, isn't a lot of the improvement you see in clean air and water in Europe thanks to the fact that a lot of the manufacturing that used to happen in Europe has now relocated to China after its efforts to open up its economy that started in the 80s. The net result may be a win for the environment in developed Western nations, but considering how polluted China now is, I wonder if it's still a net negative for the world as a whole.
raxxorrax 6y ago
I am not that old, but aside from the shitty insects like wasps and mosquitoes, they seem to have almost vanished. Birds still seem ok, but they can pick up food left behind by humans and many feed them in winter. Also snow... we had cross-country skis and used them almost every winter (northern Germany) 15 years ago. Today they are basically useless and you would certainly stand out if you used them here. Some birds that usually migrate with seasons just stay or are only absent for a few weeks. No data, but it certainly looks that way. People telling us that we live in an age of mass extinctions seem to be correct.
- throwanem 6y ago
  Mosquitoes, I'll grant you, even though they're a significant prey source for dragonflies. But wasps? You should be thanking them for the fact you still have trees, with the way they keep bagworms and tent caterpillars down. Flowers, too, for quite a lot of which they're the major or even the only pollinators.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    I don't know. I had a hornet nest in my garden last year. They make a bit of a mess and you shouldn't go to near to their nest, but they are awesome insects and far better than wasps. They also eat them so you won't find that many flying around. They are just the larger, more peaceful versions that somehow aren't interested in humans the slightest. Sadly, they move every year and this time around the wasps are back.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      I mean, hornets are wasps, genus Vespa. Other social wasps tend to be largely peaceful as well; most of the polistids ("paper wasps") in particular are almost totally unconcerned with humans, although I understand some of the tropical and neotropical species can be fierce. Yellowjackets, genus Vespula and ironically more closely related to hornets than are other social wasps, mostly get the bad name, but that's mainly just because their underground nests are less obvious and thus easier to trespass on. But there's generally enough daytime traffic at nest sites to make them observable, if you're paying attention at least. I'm careful to approach only lone foragers and not nests, and I have yet to be stung while taking pictures of any wasp, something I typically do from as close to my macro lens's six-inch minimum working distance as I can manage - usually within 12 inches (30cm). Hornet, yellowjacket, paper wasp, or solitary, they all seem about equally willing to leave me unbothered, so long as I don't bother them first. Happily, having a camera lens and flashes going off nearby doesn't seem to count as bothering!
rmah 6y ago
I'm in my 50's... and I remember filthy air you could barely breath and horribly polluted rivers that caught on fire. I remember people tossing trash on the side of the road without regard. I remember trash floating in our lakes, which were so filthy you were scared to let the water touch you, much less eat the fish (if any) in them. I remember when all cars belched clouds of black smoke. I remember national parks with no wolves and no bears. Today, the skies and rivers are noticeably cleaner. There seem to be more large wild animals (wolves, bears, buffalo, cougars, elk) in national parks and forests now than when I was a kid. And you can eat the fish in the Great Lakes now. Wild deer are, seemingly, everywhere around here and rise to nuisance levels. On the other hand, there seem to be less earthworms in suburban areas, somewhat less bugs and less birds. But that may just be related to where I now live (a much more urbanized area than that of my youth). Or it may be a harbinger of doom. I don't know. Of course, my perspective on this is rather limited since I can only say what I've seen. Larger wild animal populations in Western Europe, for example, are essentially non-existent in comparison North America. I suspect that most or all of the decline described in the report happened in what were pretty poor regions of the world 50 years ago. But now that some of those nations are approaching the levels of wealth where they can start to care, I'm confident they'll start to clean things up over the next half century like most of the developed world did over the last half century.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Earthworms are often an invasive species and so the local DNR will cheer on their loss since the harm they do to local forests is significant. The above depends on where you live of course. In their place they are good. Out of place they destroy the natural ecosystem.
Loughla 6y ago
I think this is dependent on where you live. If you're near a city-center or urban area at all, I believe you're right. With development being what it is, I believe you absolutely would see fewer animals in that setting. In my rural area, though, there are much more animals, of a much varied type than ever before. I saw a badger this year for the first time, ever. I think this is partially because of conservation efforts actually working, and partially because animals are being displaced by humans/climate change now. We have armadillos now, too. Midwest Illinois/Iowa area. We should not have armadillos.
christophilus 6y ago
Do you live in the same place as when you were a kid? Anecdotal, but I now live in a bird sanctuary in South Carolina, and there are a lot more birds here than where I grew up. It’s really hard to gauge things based on personal experience. One thing that has definitely changed is insect levels around lights at night. Every streetlight in my childhood was positively swarming. Now, I can literally count the insects on my hands.
at-fates-hands 6y ago
Just over 40. I live in Minnesota. I used to take trips in high school to the boundary waters area. The water was so clean, you didn't need a filter, you could drink right out of the lake. We didn't have to carry a ton of water, we just had cups that hung on the inside of our canoes. Thirsty? Just dip your cup and have a drink. Nighttime was always an adventure. The bears and other animals out there were always vocal and nighttime is when a lot of animals came out and hunted. There were always an abundance of birds as well during the daytime. Hawks, bald eagles, falcons. I've gone back through college and after college in the early 2000's. Everything has changed. Now we have a TON of ugly cell towers because people can't spend 5 min away from their phones. Less birds, the nights are a lot quieter, there didn't seem as many bears as I remember, and the nights have this eerie quiet to them. Never mind now you have to haul in your own water, or bring a decent filter to filter the water now because its so polluted and not safe to drink. It used to be crystal clear, now its just mucky mud filth. The other depressing thing is the trash. It was hammered into my brain when I was young the idea of "leave no trace" all through high school by my guides and in college all my roommates who were loyal to the idea. We took it on ourselves to self police each other. You leave a wrapper, a beer can? We all got on each other. It almost became a game, but it also taught us the importance of leaving an area as prestige as you found it. The last two times I was in the Boundary Waters (2008, 2014), I spent a LOT of time picking up others trash - beer cans, plastic bottles, cardboard boxes, you name it, I picked it up. There were two articles recently in the local paper saying it was getting worse now too. I'm not sure if its a generational thing, people just don't care anymore or I've grown older and have no patience for people leaving their campsites a mess when they leave. Either way, the changes over the past decade have soured my attitude on going there anytime soon.
- bjr11 6y ago
  I haven't herd this opinion about the boundary Waters from anyone else. Memories are often effected with the emotions associated with them
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  This. The urban areas and inner suburban areas where most of HN grew up and lives are much less polluted and have more animals now because we mostly kicked out industry decades ago and the areas have recovered. ...but the outer suburban areas and rural areas have far less wildlife because they are so much more developed than they used to be. There has been some recovery of species in those areas too because many species were widely hunted at the turn of the 20th century and populations have rebounded but that mostly only effects the big visible species.
stephanerangaya 6y ago
Not necessarily animals but I remember seeing way more insects when I was younger -- living in Normandy, but it might be because I used to spend more time outdoor than I do today.
SamBam 6y ago
I'm interested in the fact that almost every comment replied to your anecdotal comment with anecdotes of their own about how, in fact, there are so many more animals and the world is so much cleaner. Yet, clearly, the statistics in this article and elsewhere show that this is plainly not the case. We are killing off wildlife at an unprecedented speed. Why the disconnect? Are all our efforts really directed towards feel-good efforts at home, maybe, which make the world look cleaner and better for nature, while obscuring the huge amount of invisible damage we're doing?
- misja111 6y ago
  I guess it's a 1st World vs 3rd World thing. Also although larger animals seem to be doing better nowadays, insects are not. But those are much less visible.
  - jjcon 6y ago
    Insects are doing fine in the US but Europe isn’t faring all that well https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1269-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1269-4 > Recent reports of dramatic declines in insect abundance suggest grave consequences for global ecosystems and human society. Most evidence comes from Europe, however, leaving uncertainty about insect population trends worldwide. We used >5,300 time series for insects and other arthropods, collected over 4–36 years at monitoring sites representing 68 different natural and managed areas, to search for evidence of declines across the United States. Some taxa and sites showed decreases in abundance and diversity while others increased or were unchanged, yielding net abundance and biodiversity trends generally indistinguishable from zero.
- burlesona 6y ago
  As a sibling poster said, I think one of the issues is that the first world countries have significantly improved in many environmental metrics (litter, air, and water quality most of all), so people there have a lived experience which includes things getting better. Meanwhile it’s really hard for us to grasp how much the population of places like Africa, Indonesia, and India have exploded in the last fifty years, nor how much environmental damage has occurred there. Not to mention China. This is going to be increasingly difficult part of dealing with environmental damage. It will not be enough for North America and Europe to decarbonize. Somehow we have to bring the rest of the world along with us. But they haven’t enjoyed the benefits of all the environmental destruction over the last 200 years, as we have, and (understandably), they are trying to catch up.
deleted 6y ago
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HumblyTossed 6y ago
Yes. I definitely remember way more birds. Especially larger birds. When I see one in the sky now, I think, "oh, wow there's a bird." How sad is that?
mymythisisthis 6y ago
I remember when the city had a real limit, you could leave it. Now the suburbs seem endless. Towns 300km away, were once distinct towns, now just part of one large metropolis - pretending that they are still distinct. If you want to know the real size of a metro, map out the delivery areas for furniture stores and restaurant suppliers.
- bb101 6y ago
  It's been progressively so throughout the entire 20th century. George Orwell wrote about the suburbanisation of rural life in his "Coming Up for Air" [1] back in the 1930s. Highly recommended. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/509080.Coming_Up_for_Air https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/509080.Coming_Up_for_Air
- jbay808 6y ago
  Out of curiosity, how do you map out the delivery areas for furniture stores and restaurant suppliers?
- g8oz 6y ago
  Low density suburbs are indeed the failure mode of the urban expansion process.
Dumblydorr 6y ago
1. Cats kill many birds 2. Habitat loss to humans 3. Climate change 4. Bugs have decreased, many birds rely on bugs 5. Pesticides and pollutants harm birds directly
alistairSH 6y ago
Yup. Fireflies come to mind - I grew up in suburban Virginia and they were all over. I don't see them any more, and I live 20 miles from where I grew up. I also remember more snow as a child. I found a source once that had yearly snowfall in DC and it's gone down a fair bit in the last 30 years.
munificent 6y ago
This is my distinct memory too but I'm never sure how to separate it from the confounding factors of moving across the country and changing economic levels. My childhood in the South was spent in a cacophany of frogs, birds, and cicadas. We'd have to yell at each other on the back porch to be heard over the treefrogs. Everywhere you looked was a reptile, bug, or other critter. Throw a hook in the water with a piece of bread or worm on it, and you'd have a bite nearly instantly. Today, here in the Pacific Northwest, the forests are beautiful but almost entirely silent aside from a bird here and there. The last time I went camping, I didn't see a living thing larger than a banana slug. Much of that is surely the temperature difference, but I'm never sure if that explains all of it.
alangibson 6y ago
A lot of replies to my comments mention environmental pollution. I definitely agree there is less now. I was recently shocked to see that the once nasty brown river that runs through my home town is now Nile blue. The numbers on pollution levels agree with this anecdote too. However, no one I asked had seen a horned toad or armadillo in years. And these are definitely the kind of folks that used to. Cicadas used to deafening on summer evenings, but now they were barely audible. Sample size = 1, but the numbers seem to bear out these anecdotes too. It's totally possible for both of these to be true. Pollution can go down at the same time that animal populations are suppressed for some other reason.

baron_harkonnen 6y ago

Remember fireflies? I myself almost don't believe that there were insects that would light dark fields in summer, and that children would fill jars with the these creatures because they were so plentiful you could grab a handful of glowing insects! I honestly feel that if I were to have grandchildren they would not believe me describing them or at the very least thing that I was greatly exaggerating. I know they still exist but I haven't seen a yard filled with fireflies in a long time.

dorchadas 6y ago
I live in a decently rural area. This summer had a lot, for some reason, but overall I can't remember seeing many in recent summers. Same with earthworms coming out after a rain
- _whiteCaps_ 6y ago
  I'm assuming you're in North America, many earthworm species there are invasive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworms_as_invasive_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworms_as_invasive_species
drzaiusapelord 6y ago
I live in the middle of Chicago, in the city itself and in a very dense and urban part of it, and we had fireflies all summer. I'm guessing as an adult you're not out much during the hours they're out, or at least not in backyards and alleys where they tend to congregate. They do seem fewer to me, but who knows, I'm comparing my memories to a kid's from decades ago. I wonder if anyone keeps track of this stuff. I did notice less bumblebees this year, in fact I don't think I saw a single one, but that's my own experiences and not anything scientific of course. Miss those chonky little guys.

eppp 6y ago

It seems to be the opposite at my house, not that I can do any actual numbers. We have more deer, tons of squirrels that we never saw growing up. Turkeys that didn't even exist in the state. Flocks of geese that land in fields like never before. We live in a very rural area but not a crop farming one, mostly just cows.

misja111 6y ago

No I remember the opposite. I'm over 50 and when I was young in the 70's the water in ditches and canals was so polluted that nothing lived in it anymore but algae. In Amsterdam, where I moved to after leaving home, you had to be suicidal to be willing to take a swim in the canals. Nowadays fish are back everywhere, even in the canals in Amsterdam. There seem to be salmons swimming in the big rivers, this was unthinkable in my childhood. Species higher in the food chain such as otters are slowly returning to the Netherlands as well.

bkandel 6y ago
Yeah same in Philadelphia, the rivers (Delaware and Schuylkill) used to be so polluted they didn't support life, but now there are people catching 45-inch muskies in urban rivers (https://patch.com/pennsylvania/norristown/30-pound-muskie-caught-schuylkill-river-near-norristown https://patch.com/pennsylvania/norristown/30-pound-muskie-ca...). The revival of the river has been well documented (e.g. https://whyy.org/articles/the-death-of-the-delaware-river/ https://whyy.org/articles/the-death-of-the-delaware-river/).
rapnie 6y ago
There was indeed a big mentality change. Significantly less casual pollution (Diemerzeedijk in Amsterdam North, the open chemical dump for Europe, comes to mind), and .. lots of the polluting industry outsourced to Asia, China mostly. My personal impression is that there are way less insects than there used to be. Edit: found an old HN comment about the relationship to Agent Orange production and Diemerzeedijk: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9431741 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9431741 I was actually searching an article about exploding chemical barrels now and then landing on fishing boats sailing in the area.
refurb 6y ago
Same here. Everything is much cleaner than 40 years back. Less garbage everywhere, cleaner water you can actually eat the fish out of or swim in. There has been lots of progress.
hannofcart 6y ago
However, isn't a lot of the improvement you see in clean air and water in Europe thanks to the fact that a lot of the manufacturing that used to happen in Europe has now relocated to China after its efforts to open up its economy that started in the 80s. The net result may be a win for the environment in developed Western nations, but considering how polluted China now is, I wonder if it's still a net negative for the world as a whole.

raxxorrax 6y ago

I am not that old, but aside from the shitty insects like wasps and mosquitoes, they seem to have almost vanished. Birds still seem ok, but they can pick up food left behind by humans and many feed them in winter. Also snow... we had cross-country skis and used them almost every winter (northern Germany) 15 years ago. Today they are basically useless and you would certainly stand out if you used them here. Some birds that usually migrate with seasons just stay or are only absent for a few weeks. No data, but it certainly looks that way. People telling us that we live in an age of mass extinctions seem to be correct.

throwanem 6y ago
Mosquitoes, I'll grant you, even though they're a significant prey source for dragonflies. But wasps? You should be thanking them for the fact you still have trees, with the way they keep bagworms and tent caterpillars down. Flowers, too, for quite a lot of which they're the major or even the only pollinators.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  I don't know. I had a hornet nest in my garden last year. They make a bit of a mess and you shouldn't go to near to their nest, but they are awesome insects and far better than wasps. They also eat them so you won't find that many flying around. They are just the larger, more peaceful versions that somehow aren't interested in humans the slightest. Sadly, they move every year and this time around the wasps are back.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    I mean, hornets are wasps, genus Vespa. Other social wasps tend to be largely peaceful as well; most of the polistids ("paper wasps") in particular are almost totally unconcerned with humans, although I understand some of the tropical and neotropical species can be fierce. Yellowjackets, genus Vespula and ironically more closely related to hornets than are other social wasps, mostly get the bad name, but that's mainly just because their underground nests are less obvious and thus easier to trespass on. But there's generally enough daytime traffic at nest sites to make them observable, if you're paying attention at least. I'm careful to approach only lone foragers and not nests, and I have yet to be stung while taking pictures of any wasp, something I typically do from as close to my macro lens's six-inch minimum working distance as I can manage - usually within 12 inches (30cm). Hornet, yellowjacket, paper wasp, or solitary, they all seem about equally willing to leave me unbothered, so long as I don't bother them first. Happily, having a camera lens and flashes going off nearby doesn't seem to count as bothering!

rmah 6y ago

I'm in my 50's... and I remember filthy air you could barely breath and horribly polluted rivers that caught on fire. I remember people tossing trash on the side of the road without regard. I remember trash floating in our lakes, which were so filthy you were scared to let the water touch you, much less eat the fish (if any) in them. I remember when all cars belched clouds of black smoke. I remember national parks with no wolves and no bears. Today, the skies and rivers are noticeably cleaner. There seem to be more large wild animals (wolves, bears, buffalo, cougars, elk) in national parks and forests now than when I was a kid. And you can eat the fish in the Great Lakes now. Wild deer are, seemingly, everywhere around here and rise to nuisance levels. On the other hand, there seem to be less earthworms in suburban areas, somewhat less bugs and less birds. But that may just be related to where I now live (a much more urbanized area than that of my youth). Or it may be a harbinger of doom. I don't know. Of course, my perspective on this is rather limited since I can only say what I've seen. Larger wild animal populations in Western Europe, for example, are essentially non-existent in comparison North America. I suspect that most or all of the decline described in the report happened in what were pretty poor regions of the world 50 years ago. But now that some of those nations are approaching the levels of wealth where they can start to care, I'm confident they'll start to clean things up over the next half century like most of the developed world did over the last half century.

bluGill 6y ago
Earthworms are often an invasive species and so the local DNR will cheer on their loss since the harm they do to local forests is significant. The above depends on where you live of course. In their place they are good. Out of place they destroy the natural ecosystem.

Loughla 6y ago

I think this is dependent on where you live. If you're near a city-center or urban area at all, I believe you're right. With development being what it is, I believe you absolutely would see fewer animals in that setting. In my rural area, though, there are much more animals, of a much varied type than ever before. I saw a badger this year for the first time, ever. I think this is partially because of conservation efforts actually working, and partially because animals are being displaced by humans/climate change now. We have armadillos now, too. Midwest Illinois/Iowa area. We should not have armadillos.

christophilus 6y ago

Do you live in the same place as when you were a kid? Anecdotal, but I now live in a bird sanctuary in South Carolina, and there are a lot more birds here than where I grew up. It’s really hard to gauge things based on personal experience. One thing that has definitely changed is insect levels around lights at night. Every streetlight in my childhood was positively swarming. Now, I can literally count the insects on my hands.

at-fates-hands 6y ago

Just over 40. I live in Minnesota. I used to take trips in high school to the boundary waters area. The water was so clean, you didn't need a filter, you could drink right out of the lake. We didn't have to carry a ton of water, we just had cups that hung on the inside of our canoes. Thirsty? Just dip your cup and have a drink. Nighttime was always an adventure. The bears and other animals out there were always vocal and nighttime is when a lot of animals came out and hunted. There were always an abundance of birds as well during the daytime. Hawks, bald eagles, falcons. I've gone back through college and after college in the early 2000's. Everything has changed. Now we have a TON of ugly cell towers because people can't spend 5 min away from their phones. Less birds, the nights are a lot quieter, there didn't seem as many bears as I remember, and the nights have this eerie quiet to them. Never mind now you have to haul in your own water, or bring a decent filter to filter the water now because its so polluted and not safe to drink. It used to be crystal clear, now its just mucky mud filth. The other depressing thing is the trash. It was hammered into my brain when I was young the idea of "leave no trace" all through high school by my guides and in college all my roommates who were loyal to the idea. We took it on ourselves to self police each other. You leave a wrapper, a beer can? We all got on each other. It almost became a game, but it also taught us the importance of leaving an area as prestige as you found it. The last two times I was in the Boundary Waters (2008, 2014), I spent a LOT of time picking up others trash - beer cans, plastic bottles, cardboard boxes, you name it, I picked it up. There were two articles recently in the local paper saying it was getting worse now too. I'm not sure if its a generational thing, people just don't care anymore or I've grown older and have no patience for people leaving their campsites a mess when they leave. Either way, the changes over the past decade have soured my attitude on going there anytime soon.

bjr11 6y ago
I haven't herd this opinion about the boundary Waters from anyone else. Memories are often effected with the emotions associated with them
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
This. The urban areas and inner suburban areas where most of HN grew up and lives are much less polluted and have more animals now because we mostly kicked out industry decades ago and the areas have recovered. ...but the outer suburban areas and rural areas have far less wildlife because they are so much more developed than they used to be. There has been some recovery of species in those areas too because many species were widely hunted at the turn of the 20th century and populations have rebounded but that mostly only effects the big visible species.

stephanerangaya 6y ago

Not necessarily animals but I remember seeing way more insects when I was younger -- living in Normandy, but it might be because I used to spend more time outdoor than I do today.

SamBam 6y ago

I'm interested in the fact that almost every comment replied to your anecdotal comment with anecdotes of their own about how, in fact, there are so many more animals and the world is so much cleaner. Yet, clearly, the statistics in this article and elsewhere show that this is plainly not the case. We are killing off wildlife at an unprecedented speed. Why the disconnect? Are all our efforts really directed towards feel-good efforts at home, maybe, which make the world look cleaner and better for nature, while obscuring the huge amount of invisible damage we're doing?

misja111 6y ago
I guess it's a 1st World vs 3rd World thing. Also although larger animals seem to be doing better nowadays, insects are not. But those are much less visible.
- jjcon 6y ago
  Insects are doing fine in the US but Europe isn’t faring all that well https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1269-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1269-4 > Recent reports of dramatic declines in insect abundance suggest grave consequences for global ecosystems and human society. Most evidence comes from Europe, however, leaving uncertainty about insect population trends worldwide. We used >5,300 time series for insects and other arthropods, collected over 4–36 years at monitoring sites representing 68 different natural and managed areas, to search for evidence of declines across the United States. Some taxa and sites showed decreases in abundance and diversity while others increased or were unchanged, yielding net abundance and biodiversity trends generally indistinguishable from zero.
burlesona 6y ago
As a sibling poster said, I think one of the issues is that the first world countries have significantly improved in many environmental metrics (litter, air, and water quality most of all), so people there have a lived experience which includes things getting better. Meanwhile it’s really hard for us to grasp how much the population of places like Africa, Indonesia, and India have exploded in the last fifty years, nor how much environmental damage has occurred there. Not to mention China. This is going to be increasingly difficult part of dealing with environmental damage. It will not be enough for North America and Europe to decarbonize. Somehow we have to bring the rest of the world along with us. But they haven’t enjoyed the benefits of all the environmental destruction over the last 200 years, as we have, and (understandably), they are trying to catch up.

deleted 6y ago

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HumblyTossed 6y ago

Yes. I definitely remember way more birds. Especially larger birds. When I see one in the sky now, I think, "oh, wow there's a bird." How sad is that?

mymythisisthis 6y ago

I remember when the city had a real limit, you could leave it. Now the suburbs seem endless. Towns 300km away, were once distinct towns, now just part of one large metropolis - pretending that they are still distinct. If you want to know the real size of a metro, map out the delivery areas for furniture stores and restaurant suppliers.

bb101 6y ago
It's been progressively so throughout the entire 20th century. George Orwell wrote about the suburbanisation of rural life in his "Coming Up for Air" [1] back in the 1930s. Highly recommended. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/509080.Coming_Up_for_Air https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/509080.Coming_Up_for_Air
jbay808 6y ago
Out of curiosity, how do you map out the delivery areas for furniture stores and restaurant suppliers?
g8oz 6y ago
Low density suburbs are indeed the failure mode of the urban expansion process.

Dumblydorr 6y ago

1. Cats kill many birds 2. Habitat loss to humans 3. Climate change 4. Bugs have decreased, many birds rely on bugs 5. Pesticides and pollutants harm birds directly

alistairSH 6y ago

Yup. Fireflies come to mind - I grew up in suburban Virginia and they were all over. I don't see them any more, and I live 20 miles from where I grew up. I also remember more snow as a child. I found a source once that had yearly snowfall in DC and it's gone down a fair bit in the last 30 years.

munificent 6y ago

This is my distinct memory too but I'm never sure how to separate it from the confounding factors of moving across the country and changing economic levels. My childhood in the South was spent in a cacophany of frogs, birds, and cicadas. We'd have to yell at each other on the back porch to be heard over the treefrogs. Everywhere you looked was a reptile, bug, or other critter. Throw a hook in the water with a piece of bread or worm on it, and you'd have a bite nearly instantly. Today, here in the Pacific Northwest, the forests are beautiful but almost entirely silent aside from a bird here and there. The last time I went camping, I didn't see a living thing larger than a banana slug. Much of that is surely the temperature difference, but I'm never sure if that explains all of it.

alangibson 6y ago

A lot of replies to my comments mention environmental pollution. I definitely agree there is less now. I was recently shocked to see that the once nasty brown river that runs through my home town is now Nile blue. The numbers on pollution levels agree with this anecdote too. However, no one I asked had seen a horned toad or armadillo in years. And these are definitely the kind of folks that used to. Cicadas used to deafening on summer evenings, but now they were barely audible. Sample size = 1, but the numbers seem to bear out these anecdotes too. It's totally possible for both of these to be true. Pollution can go down at the same time that animal populations are suppressed for some other reason.