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> It's much easier to write such things in emacs than curating various different scripts in various languages (python, etc.) which all require their specific s

> It's much easier to write such things in emacs than curating various different scripts in various languages (python, etc.) which all require their specific support which is either available or not. I disagree. I’ve been using Unix/Linux for 25 years, I’ve met maybe 1 or two people who know or use Emacs, whereas almost everyone knows enough to do some scripting. I’m also guessing that installing and configuring Emacs is way more work than installing Python. And any gained Python knowledge will pay you back tenfold more than learning Emacs.

dmortin 6y ago
I meant the case when you have to use an other machine and naturally emacs users want to use emacs even there, so that's given. But on Windows, for example, python may not be installed, so that's an extra install, while if you have your usual scripts in emacs then it's just a matter of installing one's emacs config which one does anyway. I use python too when it's the less hassle. E.g. when parsing a page with BeatifulSoup which would be more cumbersome in emacs without BeautifulSoup.
- RMPR 6y ago
  > But on Windows, for example, python may not be installed Actually Python is not a very good example since Windows now includes python and python3 commands by default[0] 0: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/python-in-the-windows-10-may-2019-update/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/python-in-the-windows-...
  - OrderlyTiamat 6y ago
    Actually it's a great example, because regardless of what microsoft says, it doesn't actually include python, just an empty executable that exits and tells you to download python from the windows store. You have to manually fix you path to get that folder out if you want to download it through some other way, too.
indymike 6y ago
Honestly, getting going with emacs: $ sudo apt install emacs $ emacs From there it's learning some keystrokes. Payback? Almost immediate. And you can use it to work with Python, or any other language. After that, maybe reading a couple of howtos and installing a few add-on packages and customizing your configuration. Payback? Almost immediate. It's really productive.
- jonfw 6y ago
  > From there it's learning some keystrokes Learning Emacs is VERY clearly not this trivial... to use Emacs to any extent where it's more useful than it's competitors, you have to learn the models it works in, a new programming language- and then there are a LOT of keystrokes
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    Do you want a trivial learning curve or do you want power? The people who Emacs will please most are power users who are willing to put in the time to learn it and configure it to their liking.
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      Believe it or not, it’s possible to have something that’s simple to use at first, but as you go deeper, you learn and configure. That idea is what some on this thread refer to as “sane defaults,” but it seems that every Emacs user refuse to change; Some even look down on people who don’t want to put in the effort. IMHO it reeks of smugness and elitism. I’ll concede that one can be extremely productive using Emacs or Vim, but the steadfastness to refuse to adapt to changes in how most developers work isn’t going to help win any arguments.
  - jerf 6y ago
    I... uh... am almost in some sense ashamed to admit this, but I've been using emacs for about 23 years now, and I still don't program elisp. I can just about diagnose errors in my not-very-complicated .emacs with a bit of googling, and that's about it. I've read about it, and I understand the basics, but I know nothing about the APIs and have no experience in it past one-liners. It probably is a good idea to learn it, in some sense, and you'll probably have to pick up at least the basics that I've picked up, but it's definitely not a commitment to learn a new language.
hprotagonist 6y ago
> I’m also guessing that installing and configuring Emacs is way more work than installing Python. And any gained Python knowledge will pay you back tenfold more than learning Emacs. I’m a full-time python developer in the sciences and an emacs user and neither of those claims are true. More’s the pity.
rpdillon 6y ago
I think my Emacs knowledge has paid off ten times more than any particular language I've picked up. It's my generic tooling platform I bring to every job, regardless of platform or tech stack.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Bash?
  - rpdillon 6y ago
    I write Bash in Emacs, and everything else. So for me, no. For a sysadmin, perhaps.
wiz21c 6y ago
Compiling emacs oneself is certainly easy these days (I just tried a month ago, just to make sure of something and I was very happy to see that it's just as easy as it can get (install just a few dependencies et voilà))
allarm 6y ago
> And any gained Python knowledge will pay you back tenfold more than learning Emacs. I really doubt that a person who is able to code in elisp will not be able to grasp the concepts of Python.

dmortin 6y ago

I meant the case when you have to use an other machine and naturally emacs users want to use emacs even there, so that's given. But on Windows, for example, python may not be installed, so that's an extra install, while if you have your usual scripts in emacs then it's just a matter of installing one's emacs config which one does anyway. I use python too when it's the less hassle. E.g. when parsing a page with BeatifulSoup which would be more cumbersome in emacs without BeautifulSoup.

RMPR 6y ago
> But on Windows, for example, python may not be installed Actually Python is not a very good example since Windows now includes python and python3 commands by default[0] 0: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/python-in-the-windows-10-may-2019-update/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/python-in-the-windows-...
- OrderlyTiamat 6y ago
  Actually it's a great example, because regardless of what microsoft says, it doesn't actually include python, just an empty executable that exits and tells you to download python from the windows store. You have to manually fix you path to get that folder out if you want to download it through some other way, too.

indymike 6y ago

Honestly, getting going with emacs: $ sudo apt install emacs $ emacs From there it's learning some keystrokes. Payback? Almost immediate. And you can use it to work with Python, or any other language. After that, maybe reading a couple of howtos and installing a few add-on packages and customizing your configuration. Payback? Almost immediate. It's really productive.

jonfw 6y ago
> From there it's learning some keystrokes Learning Emacs is VERY clearly not this trivial... to use Emacs to any extent where it's more useful than it's competitors, you have to learn the models it works in, a new programming language- and then there are a LOT of keystrokes
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  Do you want a trivial learning curve or do you want power? The people who Emacs will please most are power users who are willing to put in the time to learn it and configure it to their liking.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    Believe it or not, it’s possible to have something that’s simple to use at first, but as you go deeper, you learn and configure. That idea is what some on this thread refer to as “sane defaults,” but it seems that every Emacs user refuse to change; Some even look down on people who don’t want to put in the effort. IMHO it reeks of smugness and elitism. I’ll concede that one can be extremely productive using Emacs or Vim, but the steadfastness to refuse to adapt to changes in how most developers work isn’t going to help win any arguments.
- jerf 6y ago
  I... uh... am almost in some sense ashamed to admit this, but I've been using emacs for about 23 years now, and I still don't program elisp. I can just about diagnose errors in my not-very-complicated .emacs with a bit of googling, and that's about it. I've read about it, and I understand the basics, but I know nothing about the APIs and have no experience in it past one-liners. It probably is a good idea to learn it, in some sense, and you'll probably have to pick up at least the basics that I've picked up, but it's definitely not a commitment to learn a new language.

hprotagonist 6y ago

> I’m also guessing that installing and configuring Emacs is way more work than installing Python. And any gained Python knowledge will pay you back tenfold more than learning Emacs. I’m a full-time python developer in the sciences and an emacs user and neither of those claims are true. More’s the pity.

rpdillon 6y ago

I think my Emacs knowledge has paid off ten times more than any particular language I've picked up. It's my generic tooling platform I bring to every job, regardless of platform or tech stack.

saagarjha 6y ago
Bash?
- rpdillon 6y ago
  I write Bash in Emacs, and everything else. So for me, no. For a sysadmin, perhaps.

wiz21c 6y ago

Compiling emacs oneself is certainly easy these days (I just tried a month ago, just to make sure of something and I was very happy to see that it's just as easy as it can get (install just a few dependencies et voilà))

allarm 6y ago

> And any gained Python knowledge will pay you back tenfold more than learning Emacs. I really doubt that a person who is able to code in elisp will not be able to grasp the concepts of Python.